The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

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Breakfast Debate The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by Ellandback1 »



Good Morning. It's Wednesday 20th October, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Is Leeds small squad a problem

Leeds showed last term that when they have a fit squad, and everyone is firing on all cylinders, they are a formidable source; but with players dropping like flies, and the rest of the squad struggling for form, Bielsa's options are very limited. The Whites have already utilised 22 players this season, one less than they used for the entire 20-21 campaign. According to Phil Hay, these are unprecedented times for the Whites...

Bielsa’s small squad worked for him for so long because, at the furthest reaches of it, form was consistently intact. He could swap players with minimal ill effect and without the impression that anyone was sorely missed. Phillips was the exception but even with him in and out from time to time, Leeds were play-off semi-finalists in season one, Championship winners in season two and ninth in the Premier League in season three.

It is wrong to say that Bielsa’s policy on numbers has been a mistake — 36 months of results show otherwise — but this is the first time he has hit the perfect storm of injuries compounding a concerted loss of form (which is not limited to Tyler Roberts or Rodrigo, whose displays have attracted most criticism). The remarkable reliability of performances was what always stopped injuries biting so hard.

In the Premier League last season, it was more difficult for Bielsa to avoid enforced rotation. As hard as he pushed his players in the Championship, he was able to name an unchanged line-up in 17 games in both second-tier campaigns — Leeds were injury-free infrequently but there was a good level of resilience under the pressure of the 46-game schedule and Bielsa’s training routine.

The Premier League has been more taxing. Bielsa’s team was unchanged 10 times last season — roughly one in four, even though he used the fewest number of players in the league (just 23 across the campaign). He has not been able to name an unchanged line-up at all this season and already, he has been forced to call on 22 players. COVID-19 is interfering but Leeds look more like they should at the end of a season than at the start of it. This is, after all, a group that finished the 2020-21 season as if they wanted it to continue forever.




Meslier leading the way

Early statistics for the season show that Leeds shot stopper Illan Meslier is leading the Premiership for most saves made this season. On average, the 21yo Frenchman makes 3.9 saves per game, 0.5 more than any other keeper. His home form is particularly good, it jumps up to 4.3; 2.8 of the saves made from inside his penalty area!


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Equally, Meslier's defence are not too shoddy either. Their collective contribution puts them in the top three.


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So, where do Leeds let themselves down? Only Newcastle and Norwich have a leakier defence! Leeds worse discipline was clearances. Only Manchester City performed let clearances than Leeds, but much of that has to do with the way they play. Whilst Guardiola has a Billion pound squad that can play themselves out of trouble, Leeds do not, especially when confidence is low, and you're not playing to capacity. Are there times you'd like to see our defence hoof the ball into no man's land?


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Is Bamford strong enough to carry Leeds to Premier League safety

After a dominant start to his Premiership career, much was expected from Patrick Bamford this season. The 28yo played an instrumental part in achieving a top half finish in Leeds return to the top flight after 16 years. Unfortunately, he has not received the same amount of service as last term, and his recent injury has not helped matters.

Leeds netted 62 times last season, with Bamford contributing 17. So far this season, Leeds have scored 7, and are on course to record 35 come May. Whilst we don't know the extent of Bamford's injury, are we going to be overly reliant on Raphinha coming up with the goods or would you expect Bamford to net at least 15 by the end of the season?


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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem

Post by Scoobychief »

Other than the fact that yes it is a small squad so yes it is a problem. But the main problem is we are still playing, ayling, Cooper, dallas, klich, Roberts, forshaw, Harrison, etc who are championship players and will most certainly struggle this season
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem

Post by mentalcase »

A concern is certainly lack of goals scored, well, conceded as well obviously, but goal average could play a big part come May if we don't improve our win rate.
West Brom went down last year scoring 35 but conceding 76, whilst Burnley stayed up scoring 33 but conceding 55.
Still too early to panic , but , it's still a concern and rightly so, this comes down to a small squad, injuries haven't helped either, lack of form & burn out all contributing factors, but for me, lack of forward thinking, getting in a CM and CF have been the major issues.
Bamford for all his running, isn't the one for me, last year he hit a purple patch but it wasn't the one's he scored, it was the one's he missed that's a worry, top strikers nearly always put the easy ones away.
There's no telling what might happen now, but, I would think, those in power (3) will be looking at the situation and hopefully addressing it in January, and it could/should be the end of the road for a few players Bielsa has stayed loyal to.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem

Post by Ellandback1 »

Scoobychief wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:23 am Ayling, Cooper, dallas, klich, Roberts, forshaw, Harrison, etc who are championship players and will most certainly struggle this season
I can't have that...... :-D

Roberts is a League 1 player
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem

Post by Byebyegeegee »

The fact that Meslier is top of the saves league and the defence is top of the blocks league I suspect is more down to the fact that Leeds as a team are conceding more shots than anybody else not particularly due to our goalie and defence being better than the others. Evidently they are nowhere near that as, despite being top of those two stats, we still have the third leakiest defence in the league. Having said that though I do rate Meslier highly and am thankful we’ve got him as our last line of defence rather than Casilla for example, can you imagine?

The root of of our problems this year has not been Bamford or the defence but our centre and attacking midfield, obviously Kalvin being out doesn’t help, but Klich and Dallas (when he plays there) have been nowhere near their best and as for Roberts and Rodrigo - well enough said. This area definitely needs strengthening and should already have been in the summer.

We desperately need Phillips, Raphinha and Bamford back because without those three, from the evidence of the Southampton game, we are relegation certainties.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem

Post by White Riot »

Ellandback1 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:52 am I can't have that...... :-D

Roberts is a League 1 player
You're way to generous with Roberts, and Forshaw is almost qualified as a professional physiotherapist by now :)
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by Orange Box »

I suspect one way to increase the squad numbers would be to sign two more wingers.

At first viewing I took the headline ‘Meslier leading the way’ to mean a transfer exodus.

Right now Paddy isn’t even strong enough to run about, let alone carry the entire team.

Clearly I’m in a sarcastic mood this morning.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem

Post by 1964white »

I believe we have the smallest squad in the PL probably the championship too!

Was always a recipe for disaster at some stage of Bielsa's reign, we lost points last season due to injuries & the situation is even worse this time round. A bench of schoolboys & a crock last weekend says it all.

Small squad is not our only problem :(
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by rab_rant »

Sergio Biscquite here, sports analyst. I am often asked is a small squad or a large squad is to be desired.

For a start a small team takes less money to maintain whereas you have to spend a large fortune when you have a large squad. The economics and the size of the squad are very really discussed.

If you have to choose a squad from 11 players then you only have one choice. There is no computation necessary. If you're squad has 36 players then it is a computational nightmare to do the analysis to pick the right squad members to make up a team. This puts a severe tax on managerial skills.

If you have a large squad of 36 players then you have to be able to massage many egos when they find that they aren't on the team sheet.

Usually this causes unrest in the dressing room and rebellion which has been the cause of many teams disintegrating and the managers being sacked. There is less dissension with a small squad since it is more manageable.

The Pareto distributional says that 20% of the workforce is responsible for 80% of output... in other words two players in the team will be responsible for scoring 80% of the goals. Kane/Son, Bamford/Raphinha, Watkins/Antonio... these are inescapable facts.

The parameters used for choosing a team are body mass index, number of kilometers run during training, recovery from long covid, weight, reactions to covid vaccinations, evolution of recovery from injuries, balance, coordination, blood oxygen uptake, blood pressure, Spirometry, as well as 10 Positive Psychology Assessment Tools which include Surveys, Measures and Questionnaires.

Then of course there is the old traditional method of throwing a dart at names on a dart board.



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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by 1964white »

rab_rant wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:52 am For a start a small team takes less money to maintain whereas you have to spend a large fortune when you have a large squad. The economics and the size of the squad are very really discussed
Kinnear & our board have made £4 million with the introduction of their excessive membership scheme where up to 50,000 fans are applying for home tickets to no avail with much of the allocation being swallowed up by touts.

Talk about sh*tting on your own doorstep, a wicked scam from LUFC.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by Cjay »

Small squad.

Ive never been a fan (although as PH says its worked really up until this season so hard to complain).

That being said it was always bound to fall apart, you cant play the same small group week in week out year on year and not expect a drop off (which clearly our club didnt) extraordinarily naive.

It still annoys me seeing that smug idiot Kinnear banging on about 2 seasons worth of transfers in 1 window, what utter bollocks and arrogance.

Wolves are a perfect example (and they had a more talented group of players) they have had a small squad under Nuno, and it worked well for years. They progressed well, they sufferwd very few injuries and they benefited from a consistent selection.

But eventually that was always going to stop, injuries start to bite, stalwarts like Boly, Moutinho etc start to miss games and Wolves finished 14 points lower than previously.

A small squad will always fail in the end unless you rejuvenate it (a fact Wolves fans were lamenting on their forum last summer)

Mes/defence

Both greatly overworked because of a non existing midfield and a worn out tactical set up.

Bamford

I love Paddy, excellent work rate and he did great for us off the ball last season. That being said, for me Paddy is in the same category as Jack Harrison. I think Paddy greatly benefits from our style of play being so attacking, it creates a ton of chances and therefore he gets plenty of opportunities.

In a less creative team, players like Bamford and Harrison would struggle to get past 5 goals a season imo. I dont mean that disrespectfully but i just dont think their end product is as impressive as numbers may suggest

Furthermore i do worry that Bamford's best season for us came when no fans were present. Its easy to dismiss that as a fan but it shouldn't be disregarded. Paddy imo has always struggled with the pressure of a live crowd when here, to the point he has got petulant with the fans.

I am concerned that no fans may have contributed to Paddy's form and with fans back he may regress.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

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1964white wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:04 am Kinnear & our board have made £4 million with the introduction of their excessive membership scheme where up to 50,000 fans are applying for home tickets to no avail with much of the allocation being swallowed up by touts.

Talk about sh*tting on your own doorstep, a wicked scam from LUFC.
So the club are selling directly to the touts?
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by The Subhuman »

If the fans are having a detrimental affect on Paddy, just think of the s**t Roberts is getting... and how that must affect his form and he's still outplayed Paddy this season !!!!
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by 1964white »

faaip wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:08 pm So the club are selling directly to the touts?
It would seem the touts have found a way of purchasing bulk allocations from Leeds.

We always had a problem in the 90's/early 2000's with touts selling tickets outside the ground, they disappeared once we dropped out of Premier League. Now we're in demand, the touts are back!
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by Irish Ian »

1964white wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:04 am Kinnear & our board have made £4 million with the introduction of their excessive membership scheme where up to 50,000 fans are applying for home tickets to no avail with much of the allocation being swallowed up by touts.

Talk about sh*tting on your own doorstep, a wicked scam from LUFC.
What beats me is that either they have multiple accounts or they have found a way to purchase tickets without membership.
Some tickets are being offered 4 at a time too.

Also some are selling tickets for the family section which means you have to be registered at the club for that section, so that is traceable.

The site I looked at currently has 20 tickets for the Leicester match, including hospitality.

Edit also how can they sell tickets to games where the tickets havent been released yet? Either this is season tickets cashing in or else there is something else going on

Leeds could stop this if they wished, but I doubt they would expend the energy
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"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by Ellandback1 »

1964white wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:33 pm It would seem the touts have found a way of purchasing bulk allocations from Leeds.

We always had a problem in the 90's/early 2000's with touts selling tickets outside the ground, they disappeared once we dropped out of Premier League. Now we're in demand, the touts are back!
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by mentalcase »

You can buy tickets for most clubs, even before they "apparently" go on public sale.
Many of our fans bought them for man utd game this season (corporate), you can also buy them for many games on t' continent as well, all the big Italian, Spanish & German teams.
I think at ER, it's a case of saving the ticket office a lot of undue hastle and letting certain other websites sell them for a small fee/ percentage.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by Ellandback1 »

Brentford change
"Our game away to Leeds United will now take place on Sunday 5 December. This has been moved to give sufficient rest after our London derby at Tottenham. The game will not be live on UK TV and will kick-off at 2pm."
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

Post by BGwhite »

Ellandback1 wrote:Brentford change
"Our game away to Leeds United will now take place on Sunday 5 December. This has been moved to give sufficient rest after our London derby at Tottenham. The game will not be live on UK TV and will kick-off at 2pm."
Might be useful...an extra 2 days rest for us,

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th October) Is Leeds small squad a problem?

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