Bielsa out

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Do you want Bielsa out now?

Out, he's lost the plot
3
8%
Stay, he knows what he's doing and he'll right the ship
33
92%
 
Total votes: 36

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faaip
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Stats & Polls Bielsa out

Post by faaip »

I'm getting the sense that Bielsa's goodwill is running out, and a lot of fans would be happy with a new coach

We all know the tropes

doesn't play the kids
pecking order
square pegs in round holes
likes a small squad
etc etc


There's no middle ground I don't want any fence sitters. Try not to vote stay then slag him off every other post going forward
Best 11, everyone fit - Meslier - Ayling - Dallas - Koch - Struijk - Phillips - Forshaw - Raphinha - James - Roberts - Gelhardt
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by faaip »

I'm voting to stay, he knows more about football than all of us put together. I'm happy with the progression as a club in these conditions, I think Marcelo will pull this around when players are fit and we're not going down which if you're not top 6 is a successful season in this league
Best 11, everyone fit - Meslier - Ayling - Dallas - Koch - Struijk - Phillips - Forshaw - Raphinha - James - Roberts - Gelhardt
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by rab_rant »

wot abat the mural mate. Wot we gonna do wif that?

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Re: Bielsa out

Post by faaip »

rab_rant wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:04 pm wot abat the mural mate. Wot we gonna do wif that?

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Easily whitewashed .... on several levels
Best 11, everyone fit - Meslier - Ayling - Dallas - Koch - Struijk - Phillips - Forshaw - Raphinha - James - Roberts - Gelhardt
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by Mountain »

faaip wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:58 pm I'm getting the sense that Bielsa's goodwill is running out, and a lot of fans would be happy with a new coach

We all know the tropes

doesn't play the kids
pecking order
square pegs in round holes
likes a small squad
etc etc


There's no middle ground I don't want any fence sitters. Try not to vote stay then slag him off every other post going forward
"He's paid well enough"
"Pet projects"
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by rab_rant »

Thinking about the mass formation video in the covid group... then 40% will be for Bielsa out and will be the most rabid in their thoughts and ideas, attacking any voices of descent, and not tolerating any viewpoints other than their own.

30% will waiver not being able to make up their mind, and easily persuaded by the strongest arguments, and they will fall in step with the most militant group.

30% will be made up of a amorphous heterogeneous group, and are not united by a single unifying concept or idea, but support Bielsa and the things that he is trying to achieve the club

Another feature of mass formation is that the first 40% will attack the last 30% and accuse them of wearing rose tinted glasses and living on cloud Cuckoo land.

I would say that is precisely how most of the posters on these forums are acting at the moment.

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Re: Bielsa out

Post by Cjay »

Sorry but this is to simplistic imo and their is defiantly a middle ground.

Look nobody is doubting MB has done a great job, everyone knows this squad is struggling at the top level, its universally agree don amongst the media and opposition fans.

We have a bottom end squad pure and simple and without Bielsa we would go down without question, therefore he cant be sacked.

And now you may say well another manager may get more out of this squad, different tactical approach etc. But this squad has been tailor made for Bielsa, it is totally inflexible imo.

It hasnt the talent or the depth to really deviate to far from BielsaBall.

That in itself is a pretty damning statement for any coach or recruitment team, to have spent £150mil on a squad that is practically totally inflexible tactically and almost universally agreed to be at a very low level talent wise for a Premier League team is really poor.

So for me it isnt a case of Bielsa in or out because their are to many variables.

This squad is Bielsa's, it only knows his style, the chances of the majority of this group having the talent or ability to adapt to a new style of play at the top level instantly which is what a new coach would want is very unlikely.

That being said if we go down (and we could lets not be naïve) then Bielsa will be largely responsible because for better or worse he picked this squad, he was a large reason for the lack of change last summer and he is largely responsible for the 1 dimensional nature of it.

We are effective held to ransom by Bielsa for better or worse.

Once you hand over total control to a idealist like Bielsa you are really quite stuck because everything is tailor made for them.
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by faaip »

Mountain wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:37 pm "He's paid well enough"
"Pet projects"
yep, two more
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by faaip »

Cjay wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:43 pm Sorry but this is to simplistic imo and their is defiantly a middle ground.

Look nobody is doubting MB has done a great job, everyone knows this squad is struggling at the top level, its universally agree don amongst the media and opposition fans.

We have a bottom end squad pure and simple and without Bielsa we would go down without question, therefore he cant be sacked.

And now you may say well another manager may get more out of this squad, different tactical approach etc. But this squad has been tailor made for Bielsa, it is totally inflexible imo.

It hasnt the talent or the depth to really deviate to far from BielsaBall.

That in itself is a pretty damning statement for any coach or recruitment team, to have spent £150mil on a squad that is practically totally inflexible tactically and almost universally agreed to be at a very low level talent wise for a Premier League team is really poor.

So for me it isnt a case of Bielsa in or out because their are to many variables.

This squad is Bielsa's, it only knows his style, the chances of the majority of this group having the talent or ability to adapt to a new style of play at the top level instantly which is what a new coach would want is very unlikely.

That being said if we go down (and we could lets not be naïve) then Bielsa will be largely responsible because for better or worse he picked this squad, he was a large reason for the lack of change last summer and he is largely responsible for the 1 dimensional nature of it.

We are effective held to ransom by Bielsa for better or worse.

Once you hand over total control to a idealist like Bielsa you are really quite stuck because everything is tailor made for them.
When I read your posts I get that your a Bielsa hater and out guy, it comes across clear as daylight imo, you very very rarely have anything good to say about him, You're an out so just own it
Best 11, everyone fit - Meslier - Ayling - Dallas - Koch - Struijk - Phillips - Forshaw - Raphinha - James - Roberts - Gelhardt
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by faaip »

rab_rant wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:40 pm Thinking about the mass formation video in the covid group... then 40% will be for Bielsa out and will be the most rabid in their thoughts and ideas, attacking any voices of descent, and not tolerating any viewpoints other than their own.

30% will waiver not being able to make up their mind, and easily persuaded by the strongest arguments, and they will fall in step with the most militant group.

30% will be made up of a amorphous heterogeneous group, and are not united by a single unifying concept or idea, but support Bielsa and the things that he is trying to achieve the club

Another feature of mass formation is that the first 40% will attack the last 30% and accuse them of wearing rose tinted glasses and living on cloud Cuckoo land.

I would say that is precisely how most of the posters on these forums are acting at the moment.

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Re: Bielsa out

Post by billysboots »

Stay. Reinforce the squad in January, get us to safety and retire at the end of the season.
We’ll keep the mural to remind us of those glory days with the mad Argentine.
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by rab_rant »

faaip wrote: I'm a I know what I'm talking about, prepared to stand alone type.
As a corollary to the thoughts on mass formation it is essential that the last 30% are vocal in expressing their thoughts and ideas that are opposed to the mainstream narrative. Resistance is the only way that this type of mindset can be broken, so keep on expressing your ideas.

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Re: Bielsa out

Post by Mountain »

faaip wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:50 pm When I read your posts I get that your a Bielsa hater and out guy, it comes across clear as daylight imo, you very very rarely have anything good to say about him, You're an out so just own it
I have to say, in fairness to Cjay, while I disagree with him, he always is civil and makes his points calmly.

And at the end of the day, that's the most important thing. People will differ, sometimes strongly, but no point in getting wound up over it.
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by Cjay »

faaip wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:50 pm When I read your posts I get that your a Bielsa hater and out guy, it comes across clear as daylight imo, you very very rarely have anything good to say about him, You're an out so just own it
When have I ever not owned my view on here? :lol:

I am not a Bielsa out I am a Bielsa in but very frustrated and kinda because we have no choice.

And I have said tons positive about him, I've written lovely threads about him.

But as of now he frustrates the hell out of me.

I havent voted though because imo this isn't a yes or no question
Last edited by Cjay on Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by Cjay »

Mountain wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:16 pm I have to say, in fairness to Cjay, while I disagree with him, he always is civil and makes his points calmly.

And at the end of the day, that's the most important thing. People will differ, sometimes strongly, but no point in getting wound up over it.
Merci :)

Along as its a fair and controlled debate I have no issues.

If we all agreed it would be the dullest forum on earth
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by BGwhite »

Cjay wrote: Merci :)

Along as its a fair and controlled debate I have no issues.

If we all agreed it would be the dullest forum on earth
No it wouldn't ! ImageImage

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Re: Bielsa out

Post by mentalcase »

Can you do a Roberts in / out
No middle ground from me there like, get the useless f@cker OUT.
Bielsa frustrates me big time, I don't need to vote as ,if he carries on the way he's going, the board will have him out anyway.
Pretty obvious to most people, the squad aint big enough and many of those that are in the holy grail 18 aren't good enough.
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by White Riot »

I've voted stay, as with our current squad MB is the person best equipped to keep us in the EPL. However, that doesn't and should never exempt him, or any other coach, or player from criticism. Surely Marcelo and the players would expect a negative response after the way Leeds have started the season, and pre-season. I can't imagine him accepting Joe Bloggs patting him on the back after Southampton and saying "What a brilliant job you're doing this season."

Up until this season Bielsa has been able to generate good performances from a small squad that is not resplendent with top quality/talented players. Getting this squad promoted to and finishing ninth in the EPL was a tremendous achievement, bravo, hip, hip, hooray and all that. But that was then and this is now. We should never rest on our laurels.

Our performances and results have nose-dived and this began in pre-season, and hasn't been effectively addressed. Yes, we have injuries to our most effective players, but that was also the case last season. We have lost some leaders/personalities in the summer like Pablo, Berra, Alioski, and even Douglas, as long as you ignore Barry's performances on the pitch. Previously MB has been able to pull us out of slumps, and they haven't been so prolonged. But to me it seems like this squad and our tactics have just gone way beyond their peak and capabilities.

The deficiencies in the squad have not been addressed:
Lack of specialist cover: No cover for DCM, LB and generally we're short in CM
Aging players who just seem spent, like Ayling, Klich, Dallas, Rodrigo and Forshaw
A missed opportunity to refresh the squad by not seeding in our young players over time. When young players have been brought into the first team it's been out of necessity rather than proactively and with foresight

We've not had vfm for the money we've laid out in the transfer market, barring Raphinha whose an absolute diamond. Rodrigo being a bust really hurts us, as we then have wasted a big chunk of money and not addressed one of the gaping holes. James might come good, but he's a winger, not an ACM where we were lacking, if we had 25 million to spend why was an ACM not brought in when we had an adequate amount of wingers.
Firpo may come good, but like Koch and Llorente he's already injured. We don't have the luxury of wasting big piles of our precious cash on ineffective transfers as this again hurts our threadbare squad.

If MB is the genius that we all claim then pulling us out of the relegation mire should be a doddle to him, but maybe it's a case that the squad deficiencies are insurmountable? Time will tell.

What I can say is that we have some very good players in Meslier, Llorente, Struijk, KP, Raphinha and Bamford, so if fit and played they should give us enough to overcome our competitors at the bottom who don't have those standard of players.
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by White Riot »

Cjay wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:43 pm Sorry but this is to simplistic imo and their is defiantly a middle ground.

Look nobody is doubting MB has done a great job, everyone knows this squad is struggling at the top level, its universally agree don amongst the media and opposition fans.

We have a bottom end squad pure and simple and without Bielsa we would go down without question, therefore he cant be sacked.

And now you may say well another manager may get more out of this squad, different tactical approach etc. But this squad has been tailor made for Bielsa, it is totally inflexible imo.

It hasnt the talent or the depth to really deviate to far from BielsaBall.

That in itself is a pretty damning statement for any coach or recruitment team, to have spent £150mil on a squad that is practically totally inflexible tactically and almost universally agreed to be at a very low level talent wise for a Premier League team is really poor.

So for me it isnt a case of Bielsa in or out because their are to many variables.

This squad is Bielsa's, it only knows his style, the chances of the majority of this group having the talent or ability to adapt to a new style of play at the top level instantly which is what a new coach would want is very unlikely.

That being said if we go down (and we could lets not be naïve) then Bielsa will be largely responsible because for better or worse he picked this squad, he was a large reason for the lack of change last summer and he is largely responsible for the 1 dimensional nature of it.

We are effective held to ransom by Bielsa for better or worse.

Once you hand over total control to a idealist like Bielsa you are really quite stuck because everything is tailor made for them.
Yeah, fully agree Cjay.

We're totally committed to MB, and totally dependent on his judgement, so h he needs to prove his worth, as does any other coach, as we're in a performance and results dependent business.

It's gonna be an interesting period when a new coach comes in, as we haven't cleared out the deadwood and as you say the squad is largely inflexible. The irony is the players that are most flexible like Raphinha and Phillips will be the ones snapped up immediately by the top sides, if not before MB goes.
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Re: Bielsa out

Post by Overman »

faaip wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:50 pm When I read your posts I get that your a Bielsa hater and out guy, it comes across clear as daylight imo, you very very rarely have anything good to say about him, You're an out so just own it
A bit immature Faaip.

The poll is all very divisive particularly at this stage of the season. I did vote out as I envision things may not improve over the next few games. I don't want us to be hovering near relegation come Christmas. I truly hope I'm proven wrong and gorging on plenty of humble pie.

I am readying myself for the lynch mob now.
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