The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

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Breakfast Debate The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Ellandback1 »



Good Morning. It's Monday 26th September, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Leeds United have been dribbled past more times than any other Premier League side so far this season, according to statistical website 'FBRef'. In six matches, the Whites have been dribbled past a total of 75 times, or 12.5 occasions per game. Whilst the data may sound alarming, a closer inspection actually indicates progression.

Figures suggests Leeds are allowing opposition players very little time, before being hustled off the ball by a barrage of White, making it difficult to find a teammate to pass to. This is backed up by the number of ‘carries’ teams have allowed their opponents (a dribble without beating an opponent). Only Chelsea, Manchester City and Liverpool can better this.

On the whole, the Whites are improving drastically. We are conceding fewer shots and fewer goals, and Meslier is having to make fewer saves.





Orta - Sacking Bielsa was a tough decision to make

During a recent interview, Victor Orta admitted that getting rid of Marcelo Bielsa when they did, was the right decision to make, though it was far from an easy decision to make. The Leeds Director of Football was speaking to 'The Telegraph' regarding the trails and tribulations of last season, and the mixed emotions both he and the Elland Road board went through when the fateful decision was made.

Orta proudly admitted that the Argentine's 'is the greatest Manager in the club's modern era' but had to bring forward Bielsa's exit three months earlier than planned (it was widely speculated that Bielsa planned to leave on a high at the end of the season) after they slipped into the bottom three with 23 points from 27 games. Marsch would go on to help rescue the Whites with 15 points from the final 11 games, though it remains conjecture whether Bielsa could have turned things around, allowing him to leave Leeds on his own terms. According to Orta...

There was no particular moment when confidence was lost. There was a feeling that a change was needed and we went for it. Marcelo is and always will be Leeds history, his legacy will be eternal. “He is the greatest manager in the club's modern era. It was a very complicated and tough decision to make, mentally difficult to manage. But it worked.

We had already started to analyse different profiles. All we did was to bring the process forward. Jesse Marsch was one of the favourites, he was without a team at the time, and we decided on him. Clubs have to deal in a real way with all the influence of the environment, but also the fans have to know that all decisions are made for the good of the club.




Rowett in the dark regarding Cresswell penalty clauses

Gary Rowett has claimed he is unaware of any financial penalties the Whites have imposed on Millwall if Charlie Cresswell is left warming the bench. Elland Road journalist Phil Hay revealed last week that Leeds waived a loan fee on the proviso that the 20yo got plenty of game time, and even imposed a penalty clause should this not happen.

Speaking to 'London News Online, the Millwall gaffer seemed baffled by the claim but admitted that he doesn't 'get involved in the details and those sorts of discussions'. Cressy has started 7 out of the 10 Championship games so far this season, netting three times already.

I’m not involved in the details and those sorts of discussions. Is it a financial penalty? Sometimes you pay a loan fee and every time a player starts that loan fee reduces. There is a way of encouraging game time for young loan players. But from my perspective, Cressy and Shacks [Jamie Shackleton] – any players that come from Premier League clubs on loan – they are part of what we’re doing.

We try and treat them exactly the same as any other player that is in our group. I wouldn’t pick the team based on any financial penalties. If you’re a Premier League club loaning to a Championship club, you want your player to play at least a decent amount of minutes. It’s probably more a case of that.




How Orta snared Bielsa

Turning the clock back three years, there's a terrific article from Victor Orta giving fans a frank an in-depth insight into the first two years of his tenure at Leeds Utd, and how, third time lucky, he managed to snare Marcelo Bielsa.

The first season was a good season to learn my mistakes. It is true that we started with a project more medium term and then discovered that the medium term in Leeds can be difficult, for a lot of reasons. Paul (Heckingbottom) was making a good job in the category (with Barnsley).

But when you take these quick decisions you need to find quick reactions. One time it happens, another time it doesn’t happen. In the middle of a season you cannot have time to evaluate more things, but I am still proud about Paul, who is making a good job in Scotland (with Hibernian). I am proud of a lot of decisions we took in the first year but I need to assume a lot of mistakes - and for that I say sorry.

These mistakes were never intentional. They were part of the project that didn’t work and I need to take responsibility, I don’t have any problem with that. But the best situation is when you take the responsibility and analyse and try and change these mistakes. This was the idea of the second year, when the project was very different.

We detected that in this moment of the history of Leeds United we needed a really big change, a really big revolution. We needed a big investment in the Head Coach, because this club has a massive pressure around it and you need a big personality to manage it.

We needed to build a club from a figure like this. I was in a car with Andrea (Radrizzani) and he said, ‘If you have all the money, if you can choose any coach, who would you choose?’ I told him and he said, ‘Call him’. It’s true. I had tried two times to get Marcelo Bielsa - once with Seville and once with Zenit. He is a reference for football. We tried at Seville, when he was leaving Chile, and when he arrived at Atletico (Bilbao) it was amazing.

I always analyse his ideas and football. Even with his ups and downs, the quality of the football was amazing. I commentated on the (2004) Olympic Games for Eurosport and had never watched an Olympic team play the football that Argentina did. These kind of things are always in my memory and I always evaluate this level of football. It’s really exciting.

I had the idea that he (Bielsa) could say yes, but it was Andrea who gave me the bravery to say, ‘Come on, try, try. Why not try?’ Marcelo is always evaluating the history, the fans, the challenge (before taking a job). My impression was that he knew we could have a good link, because we had known each other for years, but my concern was if we could impress Marcelo about Leeds United. "

In the end, we achieved both goals. I met Marcelo with Andrea in Buenos Aires, and then with Angus (Kinnear) we had another meeting. Andrea was really impressed which, for me, was not a surprise, because I know Marcelo's way of work. In the end it happened and changed all the club and increased all the standards.

I have always had success in football because of the synergy between the Director of Football and the Head Coach. Marcelo makes me a better person and a better professional each day. It’s difficult to say another thing about him. I speak to him daily. In the summer, two or three times. Face to face we speak two times, three times per week. Recruitment is not about having a meeting with the Head Coach in March or May, ‘I like this and this’ - I need to know the requirements and elements that he wants daily. For me, it’s a surprise that people in England still don’t know our role.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Byebyegeegee »

I must admit that I’ve noticed that some of our tackling can be ineffective, powder puff if you like, and it sometimes seems that opposition players just run straight through our attempted tackles. Not based on any statistics just the impression I get sometimes, probably based on no more than my being over critical and wanting us to be so much better than we actually are.

I can’t imagine that Rowett would not have been made aware of such a clause if there is one, whether that would influence his thinking anyway is another matter. Cresswell is easily good enough to get regular game time in the Championship and is proving that that is the case. He is potentially the best of the best of all our academy players and must have a very bright future, I only hope it’ll be with us.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by 1964white »

Not surprised with regard to the dribbling statistics.

Our players have always looked uncomfortable when the opposition runs at us, we have defenders who don't know the art of tackling :shock: how many times do we concede free-kicks due to fouls because of ineffective challenges? It has been the case under Bielsa & Marsch, to be honest if you haven't got the efficient tools to work with, this problem will persist.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Irish Ian »

Rowlett well if he didn't know he does does now.

Creswell has has a bit if luck as he is as benched for a couple days of games but has worked n his place back due to injury. Let s hope he keeps improving he could be a real asset.
'We can wait for the next game with serenity' Marcelo Bielsa

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by weasel »

Ellandback1 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:14 am

Leeds United have been dribbled past more times than any other Premier League side so far this season, according to statistical website 'FBRef'. In six matches, the Whites have been dribbled past a total of 75 times, or 12.5 occasions per game. Whilst the data may sound alarming, a closer inspection actually indicates progression.

Figures suggests Leeds are allowing opposition players very little time, before being hustled off the ball by a barrage of White, making it difficult to find a teammate to pass to. This is backed up by the number of ‘carries’ teams have allowed their opponents (a dribble without beating an opponent). Only Chelsea, Manchester City and Liverpool can better this.

On the whole, the Whites are improving drastically. We are conceding fewer shots and fewer goals, and Meslier is having to make fewer saves.
I'm guessing the bottom line was also written after just the 6 matches and not including the 7th match.

I wonder if we are deliberately not tackling as often due to the amount of bookings we picked up last season and as such we are getting dribbled past more as we aren't tackling.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by velo »

weasel wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:58 am

I wonder if we are deliberately not tackling as often due to the amount of bookings we picked up last season and as such we are getting dribbled past more as we aren't tackling.
I have to agree mate, I sure the lack of tackling could be due to the no of cards we get, most teams fall over when they lose the ball, time we learned the dark arts
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Kennyb41 »

Like i've said numerous times, Orta's full of shite and has the gift of the gab that only the gullible fall for.

As above.
Last edited by Kennyb41 on Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Jaydog »

I love the top pick of Mes half way up the pitch v Bees.
He just thought f**k me Llorente I’ll do it for you then realised he’s a s**t outfield defender too
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Kennyb41 »

The thing is about this hunting them down wolf like that appeared to work so well v Chelsea but seemed to come unstuck v Brentford, is,

we've yet to see if he has a plan B if the whole world and his brother has sussed it after 6 games.

You could also possibly say Soton sussed it when we were 2-0 up and set about dismantling us quite easily.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Irish Ian »

Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:14 pm The thing is about this hunting them down wolf like that appeared to work so well v Chelsea but seemed to come unstuck v Brentford, is,

we've yet to see if he has a plan B if the whole world and his brother has sussed it after 6 games.

You could also possibly say Soton sussed it when we were 2-0 up and set about dismantling us quite easily.
Reason it didn't work v Brentford was because Brentford players basically pressed themselves into two very tight lines so when the ball broke from the Leeds press they were first to the ball.

It is a tough one to break down especially if both our wingbacks are not up to it.

Struijk on one side and Drameh on the other was never going to get behind them.

Soton went full willy shape which introduced an extra attacker when we were tiring out and Jesse was too slow to adapt.

Our lads will learn in every game though especially when it comes to morphing from one formation to the other.

Early days
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Irish Ian »

Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:58 pm Like i've said numerous times, Orta's full of shite and has the gift of the gab that only the gullible fall for.

As above.
Oh you are awful.

That is a bit like me saying that only the uneducated don't understand what Orta actually does.


But that wouldn't be nice ;-)
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Kennyb41 »

Irish Ian wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:27 pm Reason it didn't work v Brentford was because Brentford players basically pressed themselves into two very tight lines so when the ball broke from the Leeds press they were first to the ball.

It is a tough one to break down especially if both our wingbacks are not up to it.

Struijk on one side and Drameh on the other was never going to get behind them.

Soton went full willy shape which introduced an extra attacker when we were tiring out and Jesse was too slow to adapt.

Our lads will learn in every game though especially when it comes to morphing from one formation to the other.

Early days
Dya reckon.

Now what i'm waiting for is his reaction when the geeks that are analysing our performances as we speak, actually realise that if you freeze the video at any given time our pack are on the prowl - that you can actually throw a blanket over 5/6 of our players that must leave acres of space all over the pitch, and any manager with just a little bit of common should be able to explout that to his hearts content.

Just saying like.

Let's hope he has a plan B, coz unlike Bert i don't think he can make his plan A work if that's the case.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Kennyb41 »

Irish Ian wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:30 pm Oh you are awful.

That is a bit like me saying that only the uneducated don't understand what Orta actually does.


But that wouldn't be nice ;-)
Tbh i don't think the educated do, in fact the uneducated might actually understand it more. :oops:

I hope that makes sense ;-)
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Irish Ian »

Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:43 pm Dya reckon.

Now what i'm waiting for is his reaction when the geeks that are analysing our performances as we speak, actually realise that if you freeze the video at any given time our pack are on the prowl - that you can actually throw a blanket over 5/6 of our players that must leave acres of space all over the pitch, and any manager with just a little bit of common should be able to explout that to his hearts content.

Just saying like.

Let's hope he has a plan B, coz unlike Bert i don't think he can make his plan A work if that's the case.
It leaves room on the flanks, like I said.

But not in the box. Where the net is.

Of course when they win the ball we have bodies committed and they were able to exploit it.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Kennyb41 »

So anyway back to Orta.

Seems he can hire em and fire em.

Who says he's not running our club huh?
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Irish Ian »

Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:47 pm Tbh i don't think the educated do, in fact the uneducated might actually understand it more. :oops:

I hope that makes sense ;-)
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Kennyb41 »

Irish Ian wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:03 pm The beauty is to know what you dont know and stop typing and start reading.
Got ya.

:tup:
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 26th September) Whites have been dribbled past more times than any other top side

Post by Jaydog »

Irish Ian wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:03 pm The beauty is to know what you dont know and stop typing and start reading.
I remember that. The known known. The unknown known. The known unknown. If you know the known known it’s better than not knowing the unknown known or even the known unknown. Donald Rumsfeld, a total known lunatic
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