Is it any wonder why England struggle?

[1964white]

The majority of the club stars are not English.

Only one star player from a Premier League team, Saka would walk into the England First XI (highlighted in red), and he is inconsistent.

Our three main stars are playing in Europe.

At 33yo, how long has Harry Kane got playing at the highest level?

Without the European/World stars, the Premier League would be distinctly average.

Arsenal - Saka
Aston Villa - Buendia
Bournemouth - Scott
Brentford - Schade
Brighton - Grob
Chelsea - Pedro
Coventry City - Thomas
Crystal Palace - Mateta
Everton - Tarkowski
Fulham - King
Hull City - Belloumi
Ipswich Town - Davis
Leeds United - Ampadu/Muharemovic
Liverpool - Szobozslai/Isak
Manchester City - Haaland
Manchester United - Fernandes
Newcastle United - Elanga
Nottingham Forest - Gibbs-White
Sunderland - Xhaka
Tottenham - Bentancur/Van Hecke

[1964white]

Thoughts??

[Cjay]

Not sure it's important tbh

How many of that Argentina team are their teams superstar? Or Norway or Morocco.

Stars are nice but France are the most stacked international side and haven't won anything since 2018 or the Euros since 2000

[Madron]

England aren't struggling at the moment. Its a golden era.

30/40/50 years ago they struggled, and thats when ALL their star( and everyone else) players were English.(or Scottish)

Aren't Rice, Pickford, Anderson, Rogers, etc 'star players' ?

[1964white]

England aren't struggling at the moment. Its a golden era.

30/40/50 years ago they struggled, and thats when ALL their star( and everyone else) players were English.(or Scottish)

Aren't Rice, Pickford, Anderson, Rogers, etc 'star players' ?

On ratings/perfomances this season

Haaland is the main star for Citeh.
Rogers isn't far behind Pedro.
Rice form has dropped off & is behind Saka, Odegaard, Gabriel & Calafiori.

Arsenal, Citeh, Chelsea & Liverpool are littered with foreign stars.

We have the odd one or two English stars in the Premier League clubs.

Last night's defenders are way behind the likes of Gabriel, Calafiori, Saliba, Dias, van Dijk.

Raya is the best keeper in the PL.

I personally aren't a big fan of Anderson or Gibbs-White.

[Madron]

On ratings/perfomances this season

Haaland is the main star for Citeh.
Rogers isn't far behind Pedro.
Rice form has dropped off & is behind Saka, Odegaard, Gabriel & Calafiori.

Arsenal, Citeh, Chelsea & Liverpool are littered with foreign stars.

We have the odd one or two English stars in the Premier League clubs.

Last night's defenders are way behind the likes of Gabriel, Calafiori, Saliba, Dias, van Dijk.

Raya is the best keeper in the PL.

I personally aren't a big fan of Anderson or Gibbs-White.

Not really sure what relevance the order of 'stardom' has.

The point I was making is that England aren't struggling , if fact the opposite is true.

England have achieved more in the last 15 years or so with all the foreign players in the PL than they did 30 years or more ago when there wasn't any.
Like I said its a golden era for England, .

[The Subhuman]

Only issue with England atm is we don't have any forwards.. and not many coming through. Never been a Kane fan when he plays anyone decent or plays in big games...

[Bon]

The foreign influx has helped our product no end, it's actually made us better, a lot better, we have improved to continental/european/world level now, the downside of that is the constant cheating.
The problem with England is managers try a few different faces but so often not for long enough, then revert to the same old same old.
England had more than one opportunity to beat the dirty argies and failed, then tuchel failed miserably as a manager.

[1964white]

Not sure it's important tbh

How many of that Argentina team are their teams superstar? Or Norway or Morocco.

Stars are nice but France are the most stacked international side and haven't won anything since 2018 or the Euros since 2000

I prefer most of the foreign players to those I've highlighted in red.

[1964white]

Not really sure what relevance the order of 'stardom' has.

The point I was making is that England aren't struggling , if fact the opposite is true.

England have achieved more in the last 15 years or so with all the foreign players in the PL than they did 30 years or more ago when there wasn't any.
Like I said its a golden era for England, .

It might be a golden era, but England have achieved nothing, Madron.

We are fine in the preliminaries against the weaker nations, but when we come up a class team when it matters, we fail to deliver.

[The Subhuman]

Not sure it's important tbh

How many of that Argentina team are their teams superstar? Or Norway or Morocco.

Stars are nice but France are the most stacked international side and haven't won anything since 2018 or the Euros since 2000

Don't need them, they have FIFA aand the refs on their side

[BlackHillsPaul]

Take away the foreign players and the Premier League would be the 5th best competition in Europe!

If you want to watch "English Football" these days watch the English League Championship. That's the best England can do. Adding a few England National Team players won't make it exponentially better.

As good as England have been in the past, winning the World Cup on home soil in 1966 for example, they have NEVER beaten the USA in World Cup play. That doesn't exactly scream elite to the rest of the world.

I'm not trying to be a Troll, just offering some honestly from someone with no skin in the game. If it makes you feel any better, USA are routinely overrated too. But we've never won anything outside of our region. At least you are part of a small group of World Cup Winners.

[Bon]

Englands main issue is belief, they can beat anyone on their day, their day comes against the smaller nations on a regular basis, the elite teams we can and do beat, but not in the tournaments when it really matters, we go on the defensive far too often, in fact every time, we go one up and go on the defensive to protect our lead, or try to, if we went on the offensive against the dirty corned beef eaters we win, yes the ref should have done his job properly but so should tuchel, in fact so should the team, sitting back just invited them on.
Spain, Italy and Argies, all ought to been beaten in the last few tournaments but we bottled it by going defensive.
Also England are ruled and ran by old stick in the mud never has beens including yes man arse licker brooking, get rid of the old farts running the FA and start again, also give the team license to thrill, not license to kill.
I remember Don Revie taking the shackles of the team in 74, went on an unbeaten run of 29 games, a massive record in those days and won the title in style, he said he wished he'd done it years earlier instead of going one up and protecting the lead.

[Cjay]

The true answer is English football is systemically and mentally stuck in the past.

Coaches, associations, fans, everyone.

30 odd years ago 2 men changed how Spanish football operated.

It's not a coincidence Spain keeps churning out players identical to what went before (Xavi and Pedri for example).

Or that coaches play the same way roughly year after year.

This was introduced decades ago across the entire network, from youth football up.

Clubs were got on board via mutual beneficial terms (young player comes through does well for you massive benefit).

And thats what happened.
Spanish players at every age group were trained to be technically good, press resistant, intelligent, brave on the ball etc.

Especially at youth international level but many clubs bought into it as well (because of the financial benefits)

They didn't care how big you were or strong or how much you ran or how many defenders you charged into.

They got rid of that.

And it took a while but now it's ingrained in Spanish football.

England hasn't moved past the big, strong, get stuck in, try hard, be physical mentality.

International youth teams don't play the same way.
To this day size is seen as important in many cases.

Furthermore the England coaching setup isn't the same.

In Spain internal appointments are normal, in England especially Premier League level clubs have too much money so they just pay for a foreigner.

Money is the big thing here, Spanish clubs by and large don't have it so they need young players or talented young managers to get a chance.

So is more opportunity for the national team to benefit with a coaching conveyor belt or a player, all bought up on this system wide plan.

England has a mish mash of ideas at all levels and money to burn and fans wanting players who get stuck in and all that.

That's the difference.

Is no short term fix imo, but as a country we should try to replicate what Spain did.

We tried In 2012, was a similar plan (years after Spain did it) about technical players and playing identity (it's why players like Foden and hus sort started to leak through).

But it's not as fine tuned or ingrained as in Spanish football.

We should encourage technical players more not champion headless chickens.

But the paradox we've created with the Premier League being the richest most popular league in the world directly hindering what Spanish football implemented decades ago is interesting

[White Riot]

The true answer is English football is systemically and mentally stuck in the past.

Coaches, associations, fans, everyone.

30 odd years ago 2 men changed how Spanish football operated.

It's not a coincidence Spain keeps churning out players identical to what went before (Xavi and Pedri for example).

Or that coaches play the same way roughly year after year.

This was introduced decades ago across the entire network, from youth football up.

Clubs were got on board via mutual beneficial terms (young player comes through does well for you massive benefit).

And thats what happened.
Spanish players at every age group were trained to be technically good, press resistant, intelligent, brave on the ball etc.

Especially at youth international level but many clubs bought into it as well (because of the financial benefits)

They didn't care how big you were or strong or how much you ran or how many defenders you charged into.

They got rid of that.

And it took a while but now it's ingrained in Spanish football.

England hasn't moved past the big, strong, get stuck in, try hard, be physical mentality.

International youth teams don't play the same way.
To this day size is seen as important in many cases.

Furthermore the England coaching setup isn't the same.

In Spain internal appointments are normal, in England especially Premier League level clubs have too much money so they just pay for a foreigner.

Money is the big thing here, Spanish clubs by and large don't have it so they need young players or talented young managers to get a chance.

So is more opportunity for the national team to benefit with a coaching conveyor belt or a player, all bought up on this system wide plan.

England has a mish mash of ideas at all levels and money to burn and fans wanting players who get stuck in and all that.

That's the difference.

Is no short term fix imo, but as a country we should try to replicate what Spain did.

We tried In 2012, was a similar plan (years after Spain did it) about technical players and playing identity (it's why players like Foden and hus sort started to leak through).

But it's not as fine tuned or ingrained as in Spanish football.

We should encourage technical players more not champion headless chickens.

But the paradox we've created with the Premier League being the richest most popular league in the world directly hindering what Spanish football implemented decades ago is interesting

Excellent post Cjay

This put a shift in, physical specimen, prem proven bollocks is ingrained throughout the English game and we've never moved on from that 60s/70s approach.

Great for 1966, but not now.

We've seen talented English players in the past like Hoddle ridiculed, because they weren't huffing and puffing.

In the 70s Holland lead the world with total football, they were all technically good, and Ajax produced a conveyor belt of complete players who were household names and played great football.

We must change our ways, but I don't see the FA being brave enough to do this.

[Musicman1965]

I really don't think we are struggling, we have issues that need to be solved but I think we have improved from the days of Southgate.
Our whole preparation for competitions is a absolute joke. The pride to play for England needs to return and if we are ever going to win any future competitions we need to play our Premier League style not falling into the trap of copying Spain or any other side out there. England had its best finish in a World Cup only recently. I still think we were good enough to make the final but the squad was weak in areas and no cover for key players in defence made life difficult. This is on TT.
The premier league has a mix of players from all over the world, having this amount of quality can help our own players learn. Its the same for other leagues and I don't see it as a massive problem.
We lost recently to Spain, the world cup winners, they were better than us but...... we had chances against the best side in the world.

[DDB220]

The true answer is English football is systemically and mentally stuck in the past.

Coaches, associations, fans, everyone.

30 odd years ago 2 men changed how Spanish football operated.

It's not a coincidence Spain keeps churning out players identical to what went before (Xavi and Pedri for example).

Or that coaches play the same way roughly year after year.

This was introduced decades ago across the entire network, from youth football up.

Clubs were got on board via mutual beneficial terms (young player comes through does well for you massive benefit).

And thats what happened.
Spanish players at every age group were trained to be technically good, press resistant, intelligent, brave on the ball etc.

Especially at youth international level but many clubs bought into it as well (because of the financial benefits)

They didn't care how big you were or strong or how much you ran or how many defenders you charged into.

They got rid of that.

And it took a while but now it's ingrained in Spanish football.

England hasn't moved past the big, strong, get stuck in, try hard, be physical mentality.

International youth teams don't play the same way.
To this day size is seen as important in many cases.

Furthermore the England coaching setup isn't the same.

In Spain internal appointments are normal, in England especially Premier League level clubs have too much money so they just pay for a foreigner.

Money is the big thing here, Spanish clubs by and large don't have it so they need young players or talented young managers to get a chance.

So is more opportunity for the national team to benefit with a coaching conveyor belt or a player, all bought up on this system wide plan.

England has a mish mash of ideas at all levels and money to burn and fans wanting players who get stuck in and all that.

That's the difference.

Is no short term fix imo, but as a country we should try to replicate what Spain did.

We tried In 2012, was a similar plan (years after Spain did it) about technical players and playing identity (it's why players like Foden and hus sort started to leak through).

But it's not as fine tuned or ingrained as in Spanish football.

We should encourage technical players more not champion headless chickens.

But the paradox we've created with the Premier League being the richest most popular league in the world directly hindering what Spanish football implemented decades ago is interesting

This is an interesting post. Technical skills are a massive focus of grass roots academies for the past 15 years. But it takes time for the transformation to take place. But the fact we have been knocking on the door in competitions for the last 6 tournaments suggests that there has been significant improvement.

On another point coaches here who try to implement a possession based technical tactical approach are hounded out due to a lack of success. Let’s take Russell Martin as an example. You have nothing positive to say about him trying to play a certain way and yet in your monologue you suggest it is what we should be doing.

[PhoenixUnited]

I really don't think we are struggling, we have issues that need to be solved but I think we have improved from the days of Southgate.
Our whole preparation for competitions is a absolute joke. The pride to play for England needs to return and if we are ever going to win any future competitions we need to play our Premier League style not falling into the trap of copying Spain or any other side out there. England had its best finish in a World Cup only recently. I still think we were good enough to make the final but the squad was weak in areas and no cover for key players in defence made life difficult. This is on TT.
The premier league has a mix of players from all over the world, having this amount of quality can help our own players learn. Its the same for other leagues and I don't see it as a massive problem.
We lost recently to Spain, the world cup winners, they were better than us but...... we had chances against the best side in the world.

We went into the World Cup with defensive players that were injury prone, not completely fit or carrying some sort of injury. That World cup defence never stood up to the test as it was makeshift literally from the start. Under Two Tee Tom that defensive line up looked not fit for purpose against Spain.

I have no doubt that just the one goal difference in the scoreline flattered England; the Spainiards could have won by 3 or 4 clear goals on another day. If England win their next match all will be well and we will once again be World Cup contenders

[Jammy 07]

We have technical players but the coach chooses not to use them.

Wharton
Mainoo
Fodon
Palmer
Trent

That's five without even thinking about all the others who have never been close to the England team.

[Cjay]

Excellent post Cjay

This put a shift in, physical specimen, prem proven bollocks is ingrained throughout the English game and we've never moved on from that 60s/70s approach.

Great for 1966, but not now.

We've seen talented English players in the past like Hoddle ridiculed, because they weren't huffing and puffing.

In the 70s Holland lead the world with total football, they were all technically good, and Ajax produced a conveyor belt of complete players who were household names and played great football.

We must change our ways, but I don't see the FA being brave enough to do this.

Interesting you mention the Dutch of the 70s.

The Cruyff Barcelona side of the 80s inspired the shift in Spanish football.

It's not easy though, and takes time.

But the main issue is English clubs have £.

They don't need to blood an 18 year old midfielder, just go buy one