Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

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YorkshireSquare
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Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by YorkshireSquare »



It was clear before kick-off that Marcelo Bielsa wasn’t too concerned with progressing to the next round of the Carabao Cup, making eleven changes to the team that started against Liverpool at Anfield on Saturday. Six of the line-up that faced Hull were under 21 whilst debuts were handed to promising academy graduates Olly Casey and Charlie Cresswell. With the inexperienced team in mind, the result was not necessarily the important thing last night, it was the performance that would matter, particularly for those players on the fringes of the first team such as Barry Douglas, Gjanni Alioski and Tyler Roberts.

The evening didn’t start well, after a loose Kiko Casilla clearance, Leeds United academy graduate Mallik Wilks’s shot deflected into the Spaniards net to give Hull the lead. Whilst Casilla couldn’t do much with the shot, and pulled off some good saves during the game, for some it will go down as another black mark following a poor pre-season. An inexperienced defensive pairing of Charlie Cresswell and Leif Davis with Olly Casey sitting in front can’t be afforded much blame for the performance. They are young and last night will have been a good learning experience for them, but it does highlight the lack of depth in defence.

With Liam Cooper injured last weekend, Pascal Struijk made an assured centre back debut but beyond the young Dutchman there are few options. Moving Phillips or Ayling into the centre always unbalances the team and after last night it’s clear Creswell, Casey and Davis have a way to go despite growing into the game.





The midfield was perhaps the most disappointing aspect of the performance. Whilst Poveda showed glimpses of what he can do on the right wing, Alioski offered little on the left-hand side. After the game Alioski described the performance as “lazy” and “lacking aggression” and it is hard to argue with him. Tyler Roberts, who promises so much, was ineffective in midfield. Perhaps playing two similar players in Roberts and Bogusz was always going to be an issue but they created little for Rodrigo who had to drop deep to pick up the ball. Every second ball dropped to a Hull player. It wasn’t until the 89th minute when substitute Robbie Gotts had Leeds’ first shot on target.

The late goal from Alioski was no real conciliation, it could not hide an abject performance lacking craft, aggression and cohesiveness. There were some positives, Rodrigo got 90 minutes under his belt and worked hard, Struijk looked the real deal again and Poveda did provide the odd glimpse of hope. There will be big questions hanging over the likes of Douglas, Alioski and Roberts though, who should have bossed the game. Do they provide the strength in depth we need for a tough Premier League season? Was last night one to write off as a bad evening for a starting eleven who have never played together or should we be concerned?

I suspect Leeds fans will be clamouring for new signings more than ever now and De Paul and Gvardiol appear to fill the gaps made only too clear by the performance against Hull City.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by mothbanquet »

Let's be real here, it's not necessarily a lack of depth, just a lack of quality in depth.

Many if not most of us doubted Alioski, Douglas or Roberts (or all three) were good enough for the Prem and tonight only went on to strengthen those claims. But it's just not as simple as signing new players to replace them, it really really isn't.

You can't just backfill Premier League quality players overnight. We've only just been promoted for Odin's sake.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

I don't think depth will matter much if we're only going to play 38 plus 2 cup games. We'll be fine with a squad of 14.

I would have expected more tonight from the players on show. We could probably forgive them for a little match rustiness - remember most of these players haven't had a preseason and even the youngsters haven't had an U-23s game yet.

Squad players Strujik and Shackleton looked good on Saturday. We'll see more from Rodrigo. And we know that Roberts, Alioski, Poveda can drop in and do a job if needed.

If we're not bothered about the cup and our league ambition is not to get relegated, we've got enough. Give it a few months and we should see improvement from the younger players. Disappointed tonight, but overall, happy with what we have
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by Cjay »

When teams get promoted it is common for sacrifices to be made.

Players who played regularly in the promotion campaign are let go and replaced by better players.

Its cruel but thats the game.

We seem unwilling to do that for some reason.

We have players who could be sold to help fund the normal squad improvements promoted sides need.

We saw some of them tonight, 3 or 4 of the senior players playing tonight should be people we look to cash in on to improve.

I dont understand why unlike usual promoted clubs we seem to have 0 motivation to do this?

To not try and bring some funds in would be bizarre.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by Smudge3920 »

Bielsa style small squad will be just fine, no interests in cups, planning for a 38 game campaign, whilst trying to get required players in to increase squad size... All will be well.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by mothbanquet »

Cjay wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:20 pm When teams get promoted it is common for sacrifices to be made.

Players who played regularly in the promotion campaign are let go and replaced by better players.

Its cruel but thats the game.

We seem unwilling to do that for some reason.

We have players who could be sold to help fund the normal squad improvements promoted sides need.

We saw some of them tonight, 3 or 4 of the senior players playing tonight should be people we look to cash in on to improve.

I dont understand why unlike usual promoted clubs we seem to have 0 motivation to do this?

To not try and bring some funds in would be bizarre.
How much would we even get for the likes of Roberts right now? Sell all of the players I mentioned above and we still wouldn't be able to afford a single upgrade for any of our current first team.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by faaip »

No, not at all, Completely the wrong conclusion to draw from that performance from a team playing their first full game in 6 months
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by weasel »

YorkshireSquare wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:06 pm
The evening didn’t start well, after a poor Kiko Casilla clearance, Leeds United academy graduate Mallik Wilks’s shot deflected into the Spaniards net to give Hull the lead. Whilst Casilla couldn’t do much with the shot, the mistake leading up to it will go down as another black mark following a poor pre-season. With Illan Meslier’s place in the first team looking more certain is Casilla an expensive keeper, with a shadow hanging over him, to be languishing on the bench, is it time for the ex-Madrid man to move on?
It wasn't a poor clearance it was a drilled pass and it summed up the general lethargy of the team that the player that the pass was played to was simply stood there watching and allowed Hull to get to the ball. If that pass had been to Dallas or Harrison they would have already been moving on to it and not caught flatfooted.

Needless to say all the usual suspects will be giving Kiko stick. I thought he had a reasonable game, no fault for the goal, a couple of decent punches clear and a few 'tv' saves where pushed the ball away when he should have been catching. Perfectly fine with Kiko as back-up to Messlier and no worries if he came into the side due to injuries, suspension or Messlier struggling.

As for the lack of depth it is far different if 1 or 2 of those players came into the starting XI as they would be slotting into a reasonably well oiled machine. Far different throwing a mix of first team squad players, U23s and U18s together and expecting it to gel.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by Boo Radley »

weasel wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:21 pm As for the lack of depth it is far different if 1 or 2 of those players came into the starting XI as they would be slotting into a reasonably well oiled machine. Far different throwing a mix of first team squad players, U23s and U18s together and expecting it to gel.
This is a good point. Bielsa has to take a considerable amount of blame for this evening’s debacle. Too much change means the lack of structure and leaders will impact on new players, especially young players. He could have kept the spine of the team and added youth around that. Once you had control of the game you could replace some of the spine. Now it has been a negative experience for the young lads, it’s another loss for Leeds United and unnecessary negative publicity around the club.

Fulham appeared to put out a fairly strong team tonight and just about got the win against another League One opponent. They should have reason to worry about Saturday, like ourselves, but winning is a habit and you shouldn’t pass up chances like tonight.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by whiteswan »

We'll be OK when the 'proper' team plays on Saturday. The 'Mickey Mouse Cup' should have been gotten rid of this season.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by radebe88 »

My issue isn’t so much the depth or even the quality it’s the imbalance of the squad. We seem to have to try players in positions they aren’t used to.

Shackleton at right back when he’s a centre mid
Casey in defensive mid when he’s a centre back
Davis at centre back when he’s a left back
Roberts in centre mid.... I prefer him as a striker

If Phillips gets injured were in big trouble. They position plus centre back needs addressing fast
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by HarryofOz »

No, because the team chosen will not be used in the Premier League.

Just because playing all eleven new player led to a defeat, does not mean that having to play two or three of them at different times will have the same consequences.

There is a huge difference between all those players appearing at the same time and two or three of them playing alongside eight or nine regular first choice players.
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by 1964white »

Fans have been banging the drum about players who couldn't attain a regular place in the championship or young players with little experience in the second tier & are expecting them to perform at the highest level. I've lost count how many times I have said the premier league is a totally different level to the championship yet those players last night couldn't cope with a league one team, a club that has hit rock bottom in the last two years.

Only three or four players came out of that game with any credit, very concerning imo!
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by 1964white »

whiteswan wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:44 pm We'll be OK when the 'proper' team plays on Saturday. The 'Mickey Mouse Cup' should have been gotten rid of this season.
Point is Swannie we were capable of winning that Micky Mouse cup, shame we have chucked that opportunity of winning silverware away feebly
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by Scoobychief »

majority who played yesterday wont get on the bench, the ones who did aliosky, douglas, davis,roberts,poveda the rest are under 23 and will stay there, our current squad still lacks plenty of quality, 27m spent on rodrigo he never looked like he was worth that last night and others had an oppertunity to shine but noone did, hull should have walked away with a 1-4 scoreline yesterday if it wasn't for casilla. although with a squad marcelo put out last night it was allways going to happen if we had got through any decent premier league team would have beat us. no distraction now until fa cup so need to concentrate on staying up and we still need a few quality signings before window closes, i still think that tammy abraham on loan for the season would have been a better bet than 27m on rodrigo, he would have jumped at the chance he wont get much game play now behind, hudson odoi, werner, haverts etc..
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by Richard »

It was quite alarming, I have to question who felt any of our current U23s were better than Coyle or Wilks and allowed them to go with a few others remaining and playing last night. Six of our starting 11 could have started against Liverpool. If Douglas had been picked ahead of Dallas, Poveda and Alioski instead of Harrison and Costa then we have Shackleton, Roberts and Rodrigo who could have easily started on Saturday.

Roberts has convinced me he will never be more than average Championship standard, did he think it was a friendly with his constant back heels and flicks that never once worked and how long does he need on the ball? He is not a quick thinking footballer that’s for sure.

My biggest concern of the night wasn’t the defeat, it wasn’t the disjointed performance, it was how shockingly poor Rodrigo was against L1 opposition
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

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Richard wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:21 am It was quite alarming, I have to question who felt any of our current U23s were better than Coyle or Wilks and allowed them to go with a few others remaining and playing last night. Six of our starting 11 could have started against Liverpool. If Douglas had been picked ahead of Dallas, Poveda and Alioski instead of Harrison and Costa then we have Shackleton, Roberts and Rodrigo who could have easily started on Saturday
We treated Lewie Coyle shabbily when were crap, I always rated the lad
Richard wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:21 am Roberts has convinced me he will never be more than average Championship standard, did he think it was a friendly with his constant back heels and flicks that never once worked and how long does he need on the ball? He is not a quick thinking footballer that’s for sure.
Hallelujah :tup:

God knows what others see in Roberts, he rarely effects a game.

I can name the three games Roberts has excelled in......Preston, West Brom at ER & Hull away.

Not great in two years, he should be flying by now!
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by Scoobychief »

Rodrigo on that showing last night certainly no better than bamford, could this be a very very costly flop at 27m
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by weasel »

Richard wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:21 am It was quite alarming, I have to question who felt any of our current U23s were better than Coyle or Wilks and allowed them to go with a few others remaining and playing last night. Six of our starting 11 could have started against Liverpool. If Douglas had been picked ahead of Dallas, Poveda and Alioski instead of Harrison and Costa then we have Shackleton, Roberts and Rodrigo who could have easily started on Saturday.
It is not about whether the U23s are better than the likes of Coyle or Wilkes at this point it is more about the level of potential. Coyle has been playing well for Fleetwood for a couple of seasons yet no team at a higher level than League 1 has come in for him. Wilkes went to Barnsley and from the outside seemed to be doing well, however the team was rooted to the bottom of the table and they sold him to Hull. He went to Hull and they nosedived whilst Barnsley improved. Now it probably isn't all simply down to him but it perhaps suggests he looks good but isn't a great team player. Barnsley started playing the high press and shipped him out so they thought he was unsuitable, likely also the reason why Bielsa shipped him out. Wilkes will probably be added to the list of ex-players that raises their game when playing against us buit lacks the consistency to do it on a regular basis - he played well against us last season too.

It would appear Bielsa picked the right team against Liverpool and the players you mentioned will have done nothing to make Bielsa pause for thought when naming the starting XI for Saturday
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Re: Does Hull City defeat reveal an alarming lack of depth in Leeds United’s squad?

Post by Aussieleeds »

This ManU side once lost a cup match against a League 1 side.
Man Utd: Kuszczak, Neville, Vidic, Jonathan Evans,
Fabio Da Silva, Welbeck, Gibson, Anderson, Obertan, Berbatov, Rooney.
Subs: Amos, Brown, Owen, Giggs, Tosic, Carrick,
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