Who do you hold responsible?

[SG90]

Pundits always come up with the same guff about Dyche. The one about him only playing a long ball game because he hasn’t got the players for any other style.

Blimey, what would he do with our lot? Llorente up front to knock down long balls from Cooper?

In two years we will have gone from one of the best footballing teams to have graced Elland Road to neck braces for anyone sitting lower than the East Stand top tier.

I could weep.

He'll be hoofing it up to little Brendan.

[weasel]

But if they sacked him when he was struggling, he'd be labelled a "fraud" now. Credit to them for believing in the manager.

They presumably saw potential with him and he had a background of overachieving with unfashonable sides. I have repeatedly asked what potential you see in Marsch to improve and you have only suggested that he'd do better with more players. If I saw some sort of potential for things to get better with Marsch I would be saying give him more time-unfortunately I don't. There are far more bad managers than there are good managers and sadly I think Marsch is at best just a very average manager.

[SG90]

They presumably saw potential with him and he had a background of overachieving with unfashonable sides. I have repeatedly asked what potential you see in Marsch to improve and you have only suggested that he'd do better with more players. If I saw some sort of potential for things to get better with Marsch I would be saying give him more time-unfortunately I don't. There are far more bad managers than there are good managers and sadly I think Marsch is at best just a very average manager.

Performances v Arsenal and Chelsea, the chances created and high xg suggest there's potential there. But as I keep saying, you can't do it half arsed and expect miracles. If they don't want to support him with a striker, then sack him. It's not like we're getting battered every week, apart from Leicester and Brentford, it's been 1 goal deficit.

[andrewjohnsmith]

What do you think about Kjetil Knutsen?

From other thread

He has done an incredible job in Norway for FK Bodø/Glimt, properly amazing.

First season after finishing 11th the season before he arrived he took them to 2nd and won the Coach of the Year award.

Next season they won the league for the first time ever, lost only once, scored over 100 goals and conceded only marginally over 1 per game.

They won it again the following season.

And he lead them to the group stages of a European football competition for the first time where they finished 2nd behind Jose Mourinho's Roma.

During that time his side became the first team ever to put 6 past a Jose Mourinho side (think of the teams and managers over the years who can't say that).

Also in the group stage unbeaten vs Roma (win and a draw).

Saw of Celtic 5-1 on aggregate.

Beat Dutch side AZ Alkmaar in the last 16 only to meet Jose again in the Quarter Final.

Beat them 2-1 in Norway but got a battering in Rome and were knocked out.

Thus season they are still in with a chance of making it through the Europa League group stage with Arsenal, PSV and FC Zurich.

Lost to Arsenal 3-0 at the Emirates but still had 8 shots 4 on target and at home narrowly lost 1-0 limiting Arsenal to just 7 shots 1 on target to there 6 shots 1 on target.

Drew with PSV 1-1 in Holland.

Given the financial gulf between FK Bodø/Glimt and all those above teams the fact they were even competitive is a miracle in itself never mind beating teams like Roma (more than once) and AZ Alkmaar and drawing with PSV and giving Arsenal a scare.

Were they sit back and defend hoof ball merchants? Absolutely not.

When they beat Roma 2-1 they had 15 shots and 58% possession.

When they beat then 6-1 54% possession.

But yes they did sit back in some games, But they got results.

His job in Norway is comparable to what Graham Potter did in Sweden.

Very impressive

May not be right for us in our predicament but he was a leading contender for the Brighton job and I am sure someone will give him a chance.

In many ways though he could be perfect.

Plays attacking, high octane possession based football.

Lots of faith in youth and used to overachieving with a very small budget (Radz will be dribbling)

https://www.foottheball.com/manager-in- ... ts-career/

That's a tough one. Sounds like someone else of Jesse Marsch calibre. Marsch was a big manager in a lesser European league. And Ole Gunnar was highly successful in the Norwegian league but was desperately short of what was needed in the premier league.

Admitted, I don't know anything about the bloke. His record against other European teams looks decent. But I don't think he'd be an upgrade over Marsch.

[Kennyb41]

For me though it would be more of a risk not changing the manager. It isn't like we have to win every match and we have seen with Marsch that the further we get away from the former tactics the worse we look.

I agree with ya 100%.

He has got to go, i just cannot see us getting better at this frantic ball, this is his best and it ain't gonna work, the penny has dropped with me big time, i've found a piece on that Valverde guy i'll post.

[Kennyb41]

[Kennyb41]

The majority of these will be at liverpool with me^

No need.

[Jaydog]

The majority of these will be at liverpool with me^

No need.

You going to Anfield Kenny or just kidding?

[Kennyb41]

You going to Anfield Kenny or just kidding?

Going.

[Jaydog]

Going.

Look out for Gerrard. Be there to watch his next team. Not Pool

[weasel]

Performances v Arsenal and Chelsea, the chances created and high xg suggest there's potential there. But as I keep saying, you can't do it half arsed and expect miracles. If they don't want to support him with a striker, then sack him. It's not like we're getting battered every week, apart from Leicester and Brentford, it's been 1 goal deficit.

You're right in that those performances were very good. The only trouble is that there have been far more pathetic performances that those 2 performances seem more like the anomaly rather than the rule. If we faced Chelsea or Arsenal tomorrow I would expect them to batter us as their managers would have looked at what they did wrong and put it right - whereas we seem tactically unable to alter if things are going wrong.

You're also right we're not getting battered every week but when Southampton, Leicester and Palace can score 2 against us, Fulham 3 and Brentford 5 it feels like a hammering is just around the corner. We averaged conceding 1 goal per game in our first 5 matches but in the following 6 are conceding on average more than 2 per game. That suggests that we are either getting worse or that the opposition have figured us out - likely a combination of both. I can only see the average goals conceded per game continue to increase. Similarly we scored 10 from our first 6 matches whereas we have only scored 3 in the last 5 (and 2 of those were against Fulham) so as the season is progressing we are scoring less and conceding more - I would suggest that instead of seeing any signs of progress we have seen that the tactics have been worked out and we are heading, at great speed, towards the abyss.

[weasel]

That's a tough one. Sounds like someone else of Jesse Marsch calibre. Marsch was a big manager in a lesser European league. And Ole Gunnar was highly successful in the Norwegian league but was desperately short of what was needed in the premier league.

Admitted, I don't know anything about the bloke. His record against other European teams looks decent. But I don't think he'd be an upgrade over Marsch.

It is a very tough one to judge as it is hard to know the relative strengths of teams in Norway and for all we know they may just have had a purple patch of youngsters coming through or had signed a couple of players who did exceptionally well - sometime things just come together like they did for Leicester who were nearly relegated one season then the season after won the league with Kante, Vardy, Mahrez etc having the best year of their careers.

Potter made his name in the Swedish league taking an unfancied team and doing really well. The key is identifying whether it is down to the manager or oher factors. Also whether the same tactics and way the manager works can work in the premier league.

[SG90]

You're right in that those performances were very good. The only trouble is that there have been far more pathetic performances that those 2 performances seem more like the anomaly rather than the rule. If we faced Chelsea or Arsenal tomorrow I would expect them to batter us as their managers would have looked at what they did wrong and put it right - whereas we seem tactically unable to alter if things are going wrong.

You're also right we're not getting battered every week but when Southampton, Leicester and Palace can score 2 against us, Fulham 3 and Brentford 5 it feels like a hammering is just around the corner. We averaged conceding 1 goal per game in our first 5 matches but in the following 6 are conceding on average more than 2 per game. That suggests that we are either getting worse or that the opposition have figured us out - likely a combination of both. I can only see the average goals conceded per game continue to increase. Similarly we scored 10 from our first 6 matches whereas we have only scored 3 in the last 5 (and 2 of those were against Fulham) so as the season is progressing we are scoring less and conceding more - I would suggest that instead of seeing any signs of progress we have seen that the tactics have been worked out and we are heading, at great speed, towards the abyss.

Idk if it's a coincidence or not, but when Kristensen hasn't played, we've conceded 8 of our 18 goals.

I think it's all about confidence. As soon as we scored, we let Fulham back in and the heads dropped. Same happened with Palace. Easy to feel sorry for yourselves I guess when it isn't going your way. It was the same last season, Watford away was the only time we lead 2-0 all season, so it's been a long term issue.

I'd go back to basics, build from the back. Villa showed we can be organised at the back. If we park the bus at Anfield, I'm not particularly bothered. I know some will moan, but we need points now.

I'd look to Southampton as well. They were in freefall and looked like Hassenhuettl was getting the sack, but turned it around. I do believe we've better than our current position says we have, we just need a bit of luck we haven't had so far.

I know most don't agree with XG, and I didn't use to, but it usually ends up evening out by the end of the season.

[Kennyb41]

Look out for Gerrard. Be there to watch his next team. Not Pool

I'll be in the Liverpool end until i tell a steward someone's just threatened to stab me and i need moving into the Leeds end as they've sussed i'm a leeds fan...that'll be after i start singing " Marcelo Bielsa "

[weasel]

Idk if it's a coincidence or not, but when Kristensen hasn't played, we've conceded 8 of our 18 goals.

I think it's all about confidence. As soon as we scored, we let Fulham back in and the heads dropped. Same happened with Palace. Easy to feel sorry for yourselves I guess when it isn't going your way. It was the same last season, Watford away was the only time we lead 2-0 all season, so it's been a long term issue.

I'd go back to basics, build from the back. Villa showed we can be organised at the back. If we park the bus at Anfield, I'm not particularly bothered. I know some will moan, but we need points now.

I'd look to Southampton as well. They were in freefall and looked like Hassenhuettl was getting the sack, but turned it around. I do believe we've better than our current position says we have, we just need a bit of luck we haven't had so far.

I know most don't agree with XG, and I didn't use to, but it usually ends up evening out by the end of the season.

Confidence is a big issue but as has been mentioned before confidence hsould have been high when we went 1-0 v FUlham having gotten away with clearing one of the line previously. When we cleared the Fulham chance of the line I did think to myself at the time that it may have just saved JM his job - little was I to know we'd still go on to lose.

The Villa match can't really be used as an example of us being organised at the back. They were short on confidence and as we were down to 10 men we simply sacrificed our high press to defend in numbers. Maybe it is the option we should adopt at Anfield but I would expect Liverpool to have enough about them to create enough chances to score even if we parked the bus.

I just looked to Southampton - hardly looks like a great reason not to sack a manager given they are just 3 points better off then us having played a match more and only have 1 win in their last 7 matches - admittedly their 5 points from those 7 matches looks great compared to our 2 points from the last 8 matches. Maybe not quite as in freefall as us but I think there's a big hole in their parachute.

[Cjay]

That's a tough one. Sounds like someone else of Jesse Marsch calibre. Marsch was a big manager in a lesser European league. And Ole Gunnar was highly successful in the Norwegian league but was desperately short of what was needed in the premier league.

Admitted, I don't know anything about the bloke. His record against other European teams looks decent. But I don't think he'd be an upgrade over Marsch.

Ole was at Molde who are basically the Man City, PSG, Salzburg of Norway.

They have more money than everyone else.

Bodo/Glimt winning the title was more akin to Leicester winning and to do it in such style and then retain the title was a truly amazing achievement.

Unfortunately his title winning side has been decimated and key players lost, still 2nd and in the Europa League.

The Norwegian league season ends mid November as well.

[The Subhuman]

That's a tough one. Sounds like someone else of Jesse Marsch calibre. Marsch was a big manager in a lesser European league. And Ole Gunnar was highly successful in the Norwegian league but was desperately short of what was needed in the premier league.

Admitted, I don't know anything about the bloke. His record against other European teams looks decent. But I don't think he'd be an upgrade over Marsch.

Didn't OGS finish third then second in the prem, with a rebuilding Manure side?

[andrewjohnsmith]

I'd love to get involved in that as a job

But I'm not qualified and have no experience

All I do is nick other people's stats and interpret them

That's what analysis is. I really enjoy the in depth analysis you bring. And I also enjoy the copy and pastes from the Athletic so I don't have to pay for it.

[andrewjohnsmith]

You're right in that those performances were very good. The only trouble is that there have been far more pathetic performances that those 2 performances seem more like the anomaly rather than the rule. If we faced Chelsea or Arsenal tomorrow I would expect them to batter us as their managers would have looked at what they did wrong and put it right - whereas we seem tactically unable to alter if things are going wrong.

You're also right we're not getting battered every week but when Southampton, Leicester and Palace can score 2 against us, Fulham 3 and Brentford 5 it feels like a hammering is just around the corner. We averaged conceding 1 goal per game in our first 5 matches but in the following 6 are conceding on average more than 2 per game. That suggests that we are either getting worse or that the opposition have figured us out - likely a combination of both. I can only see the average goals conceded per game continue to increase. Similarly we scored 10 from our first 6 matches whereas we have only scored 3 in the last 5 (and 2 of those were against Fulham) so as the season is progressing we are scoring less and conceding more - I would suggest that instead of seeing any signs of progress we have seen that the tactics have been worked out and we are heading, at great speed, towards the abyss.

Goals scored/difference/against should be taken in context right now

We'll play 37% of our games against top 7 teams (throwing Newcastle in the group)

So far we've only played 18% against the top 7

[Cjay]

That's what analysis is. I really enjoy the in depth analysis you bring. And I also enjoy the copy and pastes from the Athletic so I don't have to pay for it.

Cheers

I am pleased I save you money to

Have a coffee on me (sort of)