Jesse Marsch

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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by SG90 »

CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:28 pm And the pundits were also raving about the exciting football that Leeds play too.

Yet listening to most on this forum you would think that we are one of the most boring teams in the PL.

I don't get it - it's like a vendetta against Marsch on here

A major criticism is often ' how narrow we play ' Yet if you use inverted wingers then it becomes narrower anyway - and a certain ex manager was a pioneer of inverted wingers with overlapping FBs.
Certainly isn't boring. The most exciting games over the last 2 seasons have all come under Marsch.
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by Cumbriarents »

Sockerist wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:01 pm It is a few results. You're itching for him to be sacked, aren't you. What terrible thing must this fellow have done to deserve it? Let's see:

-We've beaten Chelsea and Liverpool, and should have beaten Arsenal.

-We're 12th. in the world's top sports league.

-We play exciting, attacking football.

-The club is running at a profit on the transfer market. Under Jesse, they have spent on young, hungry players rather than the show ponies that were bought under your hero and are now - arguably - holding us back.

-He has the team behind him. The board back him 100% and he publicly backs the board.

-The media like him.

Don't get me wrong: Bielsa was a great manager and deserves the lion's share of the credit for Leeds' promotion back to the top flight, but the board deserve credit for recognising when it was time for him to depart and for arranging this in an honoured and dignified way. I admire that they were able to terminate his appointment without humiliating him. They did what was necessary, but they honoured him and ensured in all their messages that he remains a hero to this day - rightly so. That's before we get into the credit the board deserves for steering us back to the top flight and the credit due to Orta for his overall success in picking out players.

I opposed Bielsa's departure. I thought they should have backed him, as he was the victim of mass injury problems in the squad; and it may be that we would have gone on to greater heights under Bielsa and not been relegated. Who knows? No-one can know - that's the thing. The board made their decision, and when Jesse was appointed, from that point on I backed Jesse 100% and have never wavered. I would do the same for any Leeds manager, as long as he is not exposed as an axe murderer. The day I waver will be when it becomes clear that a change is needed. We are far, far from that point and I hope it is not for a long time, and I also hope that when that time does come along, the necessary decision is made and effected in a dignified manner in which all the world can see that our club treats its people well.

I would never want someone like you to be involved in such a decision. You are treating our manager like garbage and frankly carrying on disgracefully, bad mouthing him on here every chance you get, all because he had the misfortune to step into the shoes of a manager you still have an emotional attachment to.

I do, of course, accept there is something in the criticism of Jesse. Everybody has faults and weaknesses. What I will now say is meant constructively and I approach the topic cautiously because Jesse knows more than I do and will face pressures and problems I don't.

I think 'system football' is a little fatuous and a mistake in the Premier League. To put it simply (and to over-simplify it), systems suit leagues like the Bundesliga that are less competitive, where you have two or three really top class teams that the rest can't beat. Although the top of the Premier League is admittedly dominated by two or three clubs, it is still a competitive league in which even the bottom teams can give the top teams a run for their money 'on the day'. There are other points I could make, but I am not against Jesse. I am behind him and, barring extreme circumstances, I will not call for his dismissal - that is not my business. My business as a supporter is to support.

I think it is awfully pretentious for supporters to demand somebody is sacked from his job. I don't know when this became an acceptable thing to do.
That's a great post. Jesse will never be everybodys cup of tea but I think he has the fight and passion all us leeds fans need
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by Aussieleeds »

Great comeback. Showed a lot of heart.
Such an interesting forum we have here.
Last season we had a manager who had us near the foot of the table and was criticised for refusing to change tactics when we were getting hammered and refusing to play the young players. After 13 games this year (after losing our 2 best players including top goal scorer) we have scored more goals, won more games and are higher up the ladder. We have a manager who successfully adjusts tactics when we are down, and uses young players more often. Yet apparently he’s rubbish and is always just one poor result from fans wanting him sacked.
Just pure luck that those kids happened to be on the park so they could save Jesse’s skin. No one knows how they got on there … 🤔🙄
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by The Subhuman »

Cjay wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:48 pm Calling it "negativity in the stadium" on MOTD.

Not sure that is sensible.
They were booing, what would you call it? Or were the crowd booing ironically?
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by The Subhuman »

Sockerist wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:01 pm It is a few results. You're itching for him to be sacked, aren't you. What terrible thing must this fellow have done to deserve it? Let's see:

-We've beaten Chelsea and Liverpool, and should have beaten Arsenal.

-We're 12th. in the world's top sports league.

-We play exciting, attacking football.

-The club is running at a profit on the transfer market. Under Jesse, they have spent on young, hungry players rather than the show ponies that were bought under your hero and are now - arguably - holding us back.

-He has the team behind him. The board back him 100% and he publicly backs the board.

-The media like him.

Don't get me wrong: Bielsa was a great manager and deserves the lion's share of the credit for Leeds' promotion back to the top flight, but the board deserve credit for recognising when it was time for him to depart and for arranging this in an honoured and dignified way. I admire that they were able to terminate his appointment without humiliating him. They did what was necessary, but they honoured him and ensured in all their messages that he remains a hero to this day - rightly so. That's before we get into the credit the board deserves for steering us back to the top flight and the credit due to Orta for his overall success in picking out players.

I opposed Bielsa's departure. I thought they should have backed him, as he was the victim of mass injury problems in the squad; and it may be that we would have gone on to greater heights under Bielsa and not been relegated. Who knows? No-one can know - that's the thing. The board made their decision, and when Jesse was appointed, from that point on I backed Jesse 100% and have never wavered. I would do the same for any Leeds manager, as long as he is not exposed as an axe murderer. The day I waver will be when it becomes clear that a change is needed. We are far, far from that point and I hope it is not for a long time, and I also hope that when that time does come along, the necessary decision is made and effected in a dignified manner in which all the world can see that our club treats its people well.

I would never want someone like you to be involved in such a decision. You are treating our manager like garbage and frankly carrying on disgracefully, bad mouthing him on here every chance you get, all because he had the misfortune to step into the shoes of a manager you still have an emotional attachment to.

I do, of course, accept there is something in the criticism of Jesse. Everybody has faults and weaknesses. What I will now say is meant constructively and I approach the topic cautiously because Jesse knows more than I do and will face pressures and problems I don't.

I think 'system football' is a little fatuous and a mistake in the Premier League. To put it simply (and to over-simplify it), systems suit leagues like the Bundesliga that are less competitive, where you have two or three really top class teams that the rest can't beat. Although the top of the Premier League is admittedly dominated by two or three clubs, it is still a competitive league in which even the bottom teams can give the top teams a run for their money 'on the day'. There are other points I could make, but I am not against Jesse. I am behind him and, barring extreme circumstances, I will not call for his dismissal - that is not my business. My business as a supporter is to support.

I think it is awfully pretentious for supporters to demand somebody is sacked from his job. I don't know when this became an acceptable thing to do.
The NFL?
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by Mountain »

Aussieleeds wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:41 am Great comeback. Showed a lot of heart.
Such an interesting forum we have here.
Last season we had a manager who had us near the foot of the table and was criticised for refusing to change tactics when we were getting hammered and refusing to play the young players. After 13 games this year (after losing our 2 best players including top goal scorer) we have scored more goals, won more games and are higher up the ladder. We have a manager who successfully adjusts tactics when we are down, and uses young players more often. Yet apparently he’s rubbish and is always just one poor result from fans wanting him sacked.
Just pure luck that those kids happened to be on the park so they could save Jesse’s skin. No one knows how they got on there … 🤔🙄
Ah you missed a lot of weeks here. While optimism is always good, if you were posting this when we were shipping 5 at Brentford and losing at home to Fulham, you'd have been one of the very few. While a win is a win is a win, I think scraping a last gasp winner v Bournemouth papers over some issues...like shipping 3 at home to Bournemouth.

Incidentally, on the refusing to play young players, afaik Leeds broke PL records for most players going from under 21 to first team last year. And unless we get a result at Spurs, Marsch will have the same points as the last manager after 14 games.
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by 1964white »

The four games we've won this season against Wolves, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bournemouth & the performance against Arsenal is far better than the majority of last season's games.

Yesterday's first half display was as atrocious as the horrible stuff from last season.
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by lufc1304 »

1964white wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:42 pm The four games we've won this season against Wolves, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bournemouth & the performance against Arsenal is far better than the majority of last season's games.

Yesterday's first half display was as atrocious as the horrible stuff from last season.
This is the key thing, Leon, and the reason why some of us remain to be convinced by Jesse's system. For 50 odd minutes yesterday, we were abject against what most believe is the worst team in the league. Talking to a fellow fan whose pal was at the match, clueless and headless chickens were his HT comments. Great comeback, some lovely cameos from young players but there are still issues with how we are set up. I hope Marsch learns and adapts but until he does, doubts will remain.
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by Clueless Yank »

Irish Ian wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:54 pm I know how the system works. I knew before this season as I did my research to find out what it is all about.
Wonderful! Sincerely, I'm awful at tactical analysis so will learn a lot from your research.
Irish Ian wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:54 pm I offered my view on how the game went, that's what we do here. I Get the feeling you are taking it as some sort of attack? If so are you being a wee bit defensive because of his Nationality?
Absolutely, I try to be transparent about my pro-US bias. I'm also biased toward logic (in addition to emotion) and biased against double standards and moving goalposts.


Drama in three acts:
(pre-Anfield)
Tifo: The expected goals say Leeds is a lot better than a relegation side, but it means nothing if they don't translate it into wins.
Me: They're right. It won't help if they can't pull out some wins, fast.
Leeds supporters: Wins! We demand wins!

:: Team wins at Anfield ::
Certain supporters: Liverpool doesn't count. We can't beat opponents in the relegation hunt. Bournemouth! We demand winning against Bournemouth!

:: Team plays s**t defense for a half and wins against Bournemouth ::
Same certain supporters: Bournemouth doesn't count. The defense was rubbish and the result was too much in doubt. Boring, convincing, workmanlike wins! We demand workmanlike wins!

See how this works? Once we turn against someone, we shift the standards to downplay any success.
Irish Ian wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:54 pm I know many US Leeds fans have a lot invested in him.
If Jesse fails, it may be a decade before we see another Yank managing in the PL. Bob Bradley never had a chance. Jesse is getting ample opportunity.

So yeah, a lot invested.
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by Irish Ian »

Clueless Yank wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:05 pm Wonderful! Sincerely, I'm awful at tactical analysis so will learn a lot from your research.



Absolutely, I try to be transparent about my pro-US bias. I'm also biased toward logic (in addition to emotion) and biased against double standards and moving goalposts.


Drama in three acts:



See how this works? Once we turn against someone, we shift the standards to downplay any success.



If Jesse fails, it may be a decade before we see another Yank managing in the PL. Bob Bradley never had a chance. Jesse is getting ample opportunity.

So yeah, a lot invested.
But what happens when bias ( which is emotion based) comes up against logic?

Bit like the 2020 election... :shhh:

Stop the steal and all that shite..
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by Irish Ian »

Borrowed from elsewhere:

Watching Jesse Marsch on Leeds’ touchline packs a season’s action into 90 minutes




On the other side of Spurs away next Saturday, Jesse Marsch will grant himself a short break on the other side of the world. He and his family are heading to Peru, to the heights of Machu Picchu, to attend a wedding where best-man duties fall to him. His speech? “I’ll start working on it, maybe, the day after the final whistle at Tottenham,” Marsch said. No time at all to dwell on it yet.

His South American destination is one of beauty, over a mile above sea level and, for a head coach, as far away from football as it is possible to get without braving those parts of the planet where intrepid trips carry the risk of death.

Marsch has been scaling Everest at Leeds United recently, so a change of scene with a touch of relaxation, if only for a matter of days, cannot fail to do him good.


The 2022-23 Premier League season is now four months old and almost ready to stand aside for FIFA’s sole priority in life (that is, when the sport’s global governing body is not part of the process blaming Leeds for the shambles of a signing that was Jean-Kevin Augustin) but Marsch has packed a year’s worth of feeling into it already, a pound of flesh taken in less time than management is supposed to extract it, however glaring the warning on the tin.

There he was punching the air against Chelsea, like Michael Jordan in ‘The Shot’, only to regress to a red card at Brentford and the first sign of madness (talking to one’s self) in the aftermath of Fulham before a celebration at Liverpool which, in Marsch’s words, had his wife asking “what is wrong” with him. Anfield, nonetheless, was nothing when set alongside Saturday’s 4-3 win over Bournemouth, an open-mouthed afternoon if ever there was one.

In the tranquil surroundings of Machu Picchu, that wedding speech should be a walk in the park by comparison.



Marsch on the touchline is an event in itself, the equivalent of a tightly-wound spinning top running in all directions without ever stopping; fizzing on good days, inviting a coronary on bad, worth watching in a game like Saturday’s when beating Bournemouth was, well, the gateway to a bit of peace in South America.

It is often said that there is nothing a manager won’t touch when tension mounts and Marsch’s first job, a few seconds before kick-off, is to gather the jackets his players wore on their way out of the tunnel and are launching into the technical area one by one. A member of Leeds’ kit staff has paternity leave booked and Marsch finds himself sorting the laundry.

His own jacket stays on, but only for 19 minutes — by which point his team are 2-1 down. Off it comes, dispensed with instantly as fresh trouble brews.

Marsch had barely settled in his seat when Leeds were awarded a penalty after 50 seconds and he crouched through Rodrigo’s safe finish, almost as if he wanted to cover his eyes. But Marcus Tavernier equalised, unmarked, and Marsch’s head flicked back in a seen-this-before twitch. Philip Billing then rifled a Bournemouth second into the roof of the net and with that, Marsch launches his coat into the dugout, light rain soaking into his jumper.


So much of his body language is involuntary, like a glance at his watch after all of 15 minutes.

At 1-1, he is running to launch the ball back into play, fuelling urgency which, if truth be told, hampers Leeds and heightens their lack of control.

In the days of Marsch’s predecessor Marcelo Bielsa, Leeds assistants used to flood technical areas, sometimes breaching rules on numbers allowed there.

Marsch stands alone for the most part on Saturday, pacing, halting, arms folded, then thrown in the air, hands dug into his pockets, rarely settling. Now and again, Mark Jackson and Rene Maric step up to speak to him. But largely, he suffers alone.

In the 42nd minute, a piece of paper appears in his hand and he starts talking intently to substitute Wilfried Gnonto, the 19-year-old Italian.

Gnonto will be on before long and his presence will be decisive.

Marsch needs it to be.

Leeds are behind and their defending has been erratic, dismal, unmitigated. His side are all about transition but transition on the part of the opposition is killing them, as it has more than once this season. Bournemouth should be further ahead and three minutes into the second half they are, a strolling counter-attack finished off by Dominic Solanke’s backheel.



The atmosphere is asking the obvious question. Is Marsch pushing his luck too far? So soon after that rousing win at Anfield, what will this lurch back towards mistakes and incompetence mean?

But his staff beckon Sam Greenwood back from his warm-up by the West Stand and five minutes after entering the action he reduces the deficit to 3-2 with the type of curling, 25-yard shot which made his name as a junior. Marsch sparks up but keeps something in the can, ushering everyone back into position.

Liam Cooper then equalises with a header from a corner and Marsch is on the pitch, fists clenched and pumping towards the stands.

The nearest assistant referee considers having a word but decides to leave him be. Not worth the fight, with a fire lit under Elland Road.

It is Leeds’ game now and Bournemouth have lost it.

Gnonto’s dynamic sprinting is hurting them and Marsch has got that change right. Joe Gelhardt gets a slap of the hand as he joins the fray too.

Marsch is on his toes in the 84th minute, gripped with anticipation as Gnonto surges forward from a Bournemouth free kick with a nuclear boom of pace. He gets an arm in the back but feeds a blinding pass to Crysencio Summerville who, Marsch says, won’t score every week but seems to be doing just that.

Summerville advances and then strikes, whipping a shot past goalkeeper Mark Travers.

Marsch is bouncing for a second time, almost incredulous.

The match is mayhem and beyond explanation. Leeds have won it by the odd goal in seven. The only way to comprehend the timeline is to watch it in its entirety.



How many minutes, Marsch asks the fourth official as stoppage time comes. He is told five and rolls his eyes, the same as the crowd when the board goes up. But there is no sting in the tail, no door in the face, no kick in the bollocks.

Tactically, the afternoon has been carnage, so wrong but somehow right, and Marsch is buried in a group hug at the final whistle.

He does a lap of the pitch with more punches towards the Kop.

His press conference is sprightly, with a joke or two towards the end of it.

Gary O’Neil, Bournemouth’s caretaker boss, wears the look of the loser instead, with too much to get his head around. “If we talk factually, without emotion,” O’Neil says, “we were the better team.”


The final whistle goes (Photo: Ian Hodgson/PA Images via Getty Images)
None of that stops Marsch moving on, with six points from two fixtures and Leeds breathing more easily; not free of worry or free from the fact that living on nerves is a false economy but no longer wedged in the hole they were in a fortnight ago.

It is Wolves away in the Carabao Cup’s last 32 next on Wednesday and then that trip to Tottenham. After which, Peru will offer a breather from the wildest of coal faces.

Perhaps Marsch needs it.

Who at Leeds doesn’t?
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"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by John in Louisiana »

faaip wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:50 amThe NFL?
I guess it depends on what you mean by "top."

The NFL is immensely popular here in the USA, and dominates all other sports, but it doesn't enjoy anything close to that level of popularity anywhere else. Baseball has more appeal outside the USA than American football; basketball, too.

The EPL is easily the most watched league in the world. The NFL makes more money (Major League Baseball, too), but the EPL has more followers worldwide than any other league.
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Re: Jesse Marsch

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I was coming at it from the money angle. Watched ALA/LSU last night/this morning.... hell of a crowd!

NFL getting very big in Europe by the way, it's gaining ground world wide
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by BlackHillsPaul »

faaip wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:12 pm I was coming at it from the money angle. Watched ALA/LSU last night/this morning.... hell of a crowd!

NFL getting very big in Europe by the way, it's gaining ground world wide
I was in Louisiana last week. Drove through Baton Rouge one day and saw the stadium which sits along the Mississippi River. It is an extremely vertical stadium. As you would expect sitting in a flood zone. The capacity is over 102,000.

The British must think our College Sports are completely mental. Crowds and facilities that are larger than most professional clubs in the USA and around the world.
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by 1964white »

lufc1304 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:55 pm This is the key thing, Leon, and the reason why some of us remain to be convinced by Jesse's system. For 50 odd minutes yesterday, we were abject against what most believe is the worst team in the league. Talking to a fellow fan whose pal was at the match, clueless and headless chickens were his HT comments. Great comeback, some lovely cameos from young players but there are still issues with how we are set up. I hope Marsch learns and adapts but until he does, doubts will remain.
Jesse was gone in most fans minds around me by half-time. I've never heard so much booing from the kop when the third goal went in. Credit to Jesse he made the correct substitutions which came off for him in what was a exciting final 35 minutes for our fans :-D
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Re: Jesse Marsch

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1964white wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:05 pm Jesse was gone in most fans minds around me by half-time. I've never heard so much booing from the kop when the third goal went in. Credit to Jesse he made the correct substitutions which came off for him in what was a exciting final 35 minutes for our fans :-D
I fired him at half time too. After the third goal I just started sulking.
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Re: Jesse Marsch

Post by Cjay »

For the analysis and xG fans amongst you (which will include our board).

They will be doing cartwheels round the boardroom.

Current Premier League table based on performance analysis stats has us . . .

9th.

We are underperforming based on performance stats which is basically individuals letting us down.

For what it's worth and to show the difference player quality can make

Chelsea and Manure should be 13th and 12th respectively instead of where they are (7th and 5th)
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Re: Jesse Marsch

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Re: Jesse Marsch

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Re: Jesse Marsch

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9E072D4F-7030-4844-9C35-44D8C14A002A.jpeg
No respite for Jesse now Ralph has departed
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