Accrington Stanley 1-3 Leeds Utd - Match Debate

[whiteswan]

I quit voting on Rate the Ref. It's a slag session, very unobjective. Usually refs only get good ratings based on how well they favoured our team rather than overall performance. I'll say he was poor here. But don't participate in that thread.

I don't usually vote either andrew, for the very reasons you give. But today the ref was abysmal and well out of his depth. I had to give my pennyworth by rating him.

[Chilli D]

As I have Chilli, a horrible place to go. The last one when we got back in the game at 2-2, the tractor boys had a man sent off with about 20 minutes left on the clock & we still lost the game in the very last minute. We chucked that game away down to our own naiveness, Ipswich were poor & we handed them three points on a plate, as is often the case at Portman Road.

Yeah, I was there as well 64
Roofe missed a penalty late on at 2-2.
Ipswich got relegated that season and we still lost to them

[Chilli D]

Me too Chilli. Three times I've been, three times we lost.
It was just a shout out to Leon as an excuse for us to meet up

After our last visit there when we lost 3-2, I vowed never to go again Swannie.

[andrewjohnsmith]

That's not Shaun Harvey is it? Please. I hope not

[Cjay]

Defence was too panicky all day. Maybe it's intentional. He likes chaos in attack. Maybe the same is true in defence.

Just don't think he has the tactical knowledge to make us more defensively solid.

His pressing to defend idea is flawed and doesn't even work against teams far weaker.

[BlackHillsPaul]

Decided not to wake up at 5 am to watch the Cup tie this morning. So I just finished watching it on demand. I'm happy that we have advanced to the 5th round. Banana peel averted.

I thought that our attacking players showed some of their quality. Great goal from Jack. Sini should have scored but for a great save by the AS keeper. Second half our attacking players were lively and making much better runs. Goals by Junior and Sini were the fruit of that.

But the midfield was an absolute mess. I have no idea what the hell it was supposed to be. When the team sheets came out it looked like a 4-4-2 which is fine. I'm all for Jesse switching things up. It was suggested that it might be a diamond with Roca at the base and Harrison at the tip. But it never looked like that to me. It just looked dysfunctional. And we spent most of the first half playing over it.

We missed Adams. I would have started Aaronson in this set up over Greenwood. And McKennie can't get to Leeds soon enough now that it looks like a deal is done.

We conceded a goal with Worber on the pitch. And he looked at fault. As usual Kristensen was out of position and left men wide open at the back post at least twice. Mesler was was shite today!

[andrewjohnsmith]

Decided not to wake up at 5 am to watch the Cup tie this morning. So I just finished watching it on demand. I'm happy that we have advanced to the 5th round. Banana peel averted.

I thought that our attacking players showed some of their quality. Great goal from Jack. Sini should have scored but for a great save by the AS keeper. Second half our attacking players were lively and making much better runs. Goals by Junior and Sini were the fruit of that.

But the midfield was an absolute mess. I have no idea what the hell it was supposed to be. When the team sheets came out it looked like a 4-4-2 which is fine. I'm all for Jesse switching things up. It was suggested that it might be a diamond with Roca at the base and Harrison at the tip. But it never looked like that to me. It just looked dysfunctional. And we spent most of the first half playing over it.

We missed Adams. I would have started Aaronson in this set up over Greenwood. And McKennie can't get to Leeds soon enough now that it looks like a deal is done.

We conceded a goal with Worber on the pitch. And he looked at fault. As usual Kristensen was out of position and left men wide open at the back post at least twice. Mesler was was shite today!

I agree on the midfield Paul. No idea what the shape is. It was some kind of 4-2-3-1 with Sini-Harrison-Rutter behind Bamford. But it seems to morph to a 4-3-3 at times with Harrison in an in between role. Roca's role has changed in recent weeks. Initially he was playing as an anchor while Adams scampered around harassing in the opposition half. But I've also seen Roca roaming around the opposition box much more now. My guess - probably - Jesse wants it to change from game to game to exploit weaknesses in the opposition. But you're right. It didn't work today. Harrison played well in that 10 role but against weak opposition. Roca was decent but Greenwood was largely anonymous. Was he playing the Adams role? Idk.

As long as Jesse knows I guess. And the players. And as long as we start getting results better than the past 16 games or so.

[John in Louisiana]

Decided not to wake up at 5 am to watch the Cup tie this morning. So I just finished watching it on demand. I'm happy that we have advanced to the 5th round. Banana peel averted.

I thought that our attacking players showed some of their quality. Great goal from Jack. Sini should have scored but for a great save by the AS keeper. Second half our attacking players were lively and making much better runs. Goals by Junior and Sini were the fruit of that.

But the midfield was an absolute mess. I have no idea what the hell it was supposed to be. When the team sheets came out it looked like a 4-4-2 which is fine. I'm all for Jesse switching things up. It was suggested that it might be a diamond with Roca at the base and Harrison at the tip. But it never looked like that to me. It just looked dysfunctional. And we spent most of the first half playing over it.

We missed Adams. I would have started Aaronson in this set up over Greenwood. And McKennie can't get to Leeds soon enough now that it looks like a deal is done.

We conceded a goal with Worber on the pitch. And he looked at fault. As usual Kristensen was out of position and left men wide open at the back post at least twice. Mesler was was shite today!

Adams and McKennie coming up instead of Greenwood and Roca.

Should make a major difference.

[1964white]

[BlackHillsPaul]

Adams and McKennie coming up instead of Greenwood and Roca.

Should make a major difference.

It will be interesting to see how JM chooses to use his new player. Personally, I see a 4-3-3 with Adams lying a bit deeper with Roca to the left and McKennie on the right. Much like USA play with Musah, Adams, McKennie. I'm not as convinced about a McKennie/Adams partnership in a 4-2-3-1.

The biggest thing is that this addition give us more tactical flexibility and cover. If Adams is unavailable McKennie can cover that spot.

[Gandalf]

That's not Shaun Harvey is it? Please. I hope not

It is the Accrington chairman with Eddie. He is a big Leeds fan.

[John in Louisiana]

It will be interesting to see how JM chooses to use his new player. Personally, I see a 4-3-3 with Adams lying a bit deeper with Roca to the left and McKennie on the right. Much like USA play with Musah, Adams, McKennie. I'm not as convinced about a McKennie/Adams partnership in a 4-2-3-1.

The biggest thing is that this addition give us more tactical flexibility and cover. If Adams is unavailable McKennie can cover that spot.

With a 4-3-3 I'd rather see Aaronson on the left rather than Roca, but I think that means Struijk at left back rather than Firpo.

[BlackHillsPaul]

With a 4-3-3 I'd rather see Aaronson on the left rather than Roca, but I think that means Struijk at left back rather than Firpo.

I don't disagree with that John. I see Aaronson's future in the midfield for Leeds. He describes himself as a Number 8. If you go back and look at how he played for Philadelphia Union he was a box to box midfielder most of the time. Something like this:

------------------------------Mesler-----------------------------
Ayling---------Koch-----------------Worber-------Struijk
------------------------------Adams-----------------------------
---------McKennie-------------------------Aaronson-------
Giorginio---------------Rodrigo-------------------Gnonto

[A Tourist]

I don't disagree with that John. I see Aaronson's future in the midfield for Leeds. He describes himself as a Number 8. If you go back and look at how he played for Philadelphia Union he was a box to box midfielder most of the time. Something like this:

------------------------------Mesler-----------------------------
Ayling---------Koch-----------------Worber-------Struijk
------------------------------Adams-----------------------------
---------McKennie-------------------------Aaronson-------
Giorginio---------------Rodrigo-------------------Gnonto

Problem I see is that I think people misunderstand who McKennie is. He's not actually all that creative of a midfielder; his passing is bad. Stolen from Defector: "Among midfielders in the Big Five leagues over the past calendar year, McKennie is in the 15th percentile of passes completed and attempted per 90, the sixth percentile for long passes attempted per 90, and the 13th percentile for progressive passing distance per 90. This hints at a player who is not going to help you build methodical attacks or bust the lines with passing wizardry."

Adams isn't a creative engine; he's a wrecking ball. Aaronson can distribute but I think we'd agree he's a long way away right now. Harrison is actually I think the best bet here if he's playing on the correct side.

[BlackHillsPaul]

Problem I see is that I think people misunderstand who McKennie is. He's not actually all that creative of a midfielder; his passing is bad. Stolen from Defector: "Among midfielders in the Big Five leagues over the past calendar year, McKennie is in the 15th percentile of passes completed and attempted per 90, the sixth percentile for long passes attempted per 90, and the 13th percentile for progressive passing distance per 90. This hints at a player who is not going to help you build methodical attacks or bust the lines with passing wizardry."

Adams isn't a creative engine; he's a wrecking ball. Aaronson can distribute but I think we'd agree he's a long way away right now. Harrison is actually I think the best bet here if he's playing on the correct side.

I don't disagree with this either Tourist. Harrison could play in the Roca/Aaronson spot on the left side.

[The Subhuman]

4/3/3 line up (which I don't like in this system tbh) on current form

Meslier
Ayling
Harrison
Adams
Koch
Wober
Rutter
McKinnie
Rodrigo
Roca
Sinisterra

That leaves an awful lot of talent on the bench

My guess is, if Marsh stays, we're headed for a 3/2/4/1

Meslier
----------------
Koch
Cooper
Wober
-----------------
Adams
McKennie
-----------------
Rutter
Roca
Rutter
Harrison
----------------
Bamford/Rodrigo

[VinnysTattoo]

Came into the game fairly late but totally agree about the midfield. I could not discern a formation, everybody just rushing around like panicked poultry.

For me this highlighted why JM can’t move us on. If we can’t settle down and control a League One side we have little or no chance at Premier League level.

Greenwood is not a central midfielder and seems to be our new Tyler Roberts and Aaronson continues to run into blind corners.

Effort? Yes. Cohesion ? No.

[The Subhuman]

McKennie looks to be a very good passer of the ball to me. Passing stats are fairly meaningless anyway. Firpo was our top passer yesterday by a distance.... 9 passes more than anyone else with a 70% success rate. Paddy was around 85% but on a lot less passes

[A Tourist]

McKennie looks to be a very good passer of the ball to me. Passing stats are fairly meaningless anyway. Firpo was our top passer yesterday by a distance.... 9 passes more than anyone else with a 70% success rate. Paddy was around 85% but on a lot less passes

I've watched him play a lot of games. He excels with the ball at his feet and he's strong. Hard to get it off him when he's moving at full flow, and he's got a nose for goal that neither Adams nor Aaronson have. But he's also the weak passing link a lot of the time. There are just as many wtf were you thinking and flat out misses as there are defense-splitting. It's one thing to say passing stats are a little sketchy and another to discount a season's worth. At some point it becomes indicative, and I've seen him do enough crap to say it doesnt always pass the eye-test.

If you've just seen him play the WC, I'd warn you that it was the most cautious and tentative his passing has ever really been (likely due to coming back from injury and not having reps). Usually there's more adventure, which has occasionally burned us. For a team that struggles with player mistakes weighing down our results, he's simply gonna feed that fire. Can watch the U.S. game with Japan if you want to see it all blow up in his face.

I will say this as a positive though: Roca also cant hit the broadside of a barn and McKennie has got a better tackle in him (in addition to more goals). He's still a strict improvement over everybody but Adams in deep midfield and Gnonto and Harrison in attacking midfield at the moment (though Aaronson, Summerville and Sinisterra - when healthy - could pass him with development). But we're paying a lot of money for him if circumstances align.

[weasel]

I don't disagree with that John. I see Aaronson's future in the midfield for Leeds. He describes himself as a Number 8. If you go back and look at how he played for Philadelphia Union he was a box to box midfielder most of the time. Something like this:

------------------------------Mesler-----------------------------
Ayling---------Koch-----------------Worber-------Struijk
------------------------------Adams-----------------------------
---------McKennie-------------------------Aaronson-------
Giorginio---------------Rodrigo-------------------Gnonto

What position did Aaronsen play for RB's under JM and under other managers?