Jesse Marsch

[Cjay]

Radz said he decided they needed to sack Bielsa after the 3-3 draw with Villa.

That was match day 22.

Didn't sack him till after Spurs which was match day 26.

Marsch has been on a worse run than ever Bielsa managed

He must be under severe pressure surely?

[mentalcase]

Radz said he decided they needed to sack Bielsa after the 3-3 draw with Villa.

That was match day 22.

Didn't sack him till after Spurs which was match day 26.

Marsch has been on a worse run than ever Bielsa managed

He must be under severe pressure surely?

One would assume so, I also (rightly or wrongly) assume, the board are already sounding potential managers out, they're not as daft as some would make them out.

[weasel]

Can’t you take cake to work. Not even a Fairy cake.

Post a cake to Velo, I am sure he won't be offended. Just don't make it from puff pastry.

[Cjay]

One would assume so, I also (rightly or wrongly) assume, the board are already sounding potential managers out, they're not as daft as some would make them out.

They were tapping Marsch up for years according to Orta (didn't use those exact words).

I'd be shocked if they hadn't sounded out replacements

But then again not shocked, there is a real sense of arrogance about Radz, Orta and Kinnear.

[BlackHillsPaul]

Ah look I shall add Paul to the list of people who when they see something they cannot legitimately argue against decide to a) not answer the point(s) raised b) decide to simply launch a subtle or non subtle personal attack c) try to deflect with humour d) refuse to debate the point and attempt to deflect by raising a former manager.

So why not answer the points raised? Why was it that when we won a match JM was the first to self congratulate and basically say the reason we won was because the team were doing everything he had got them to do whereas evey poor performance since that game it comes down to the players not doing what he tells them to do like they decided after the Chelsea match that they would simply stop doing what he wanted.

Or is it rather that opposition managers noticed how we were playing and adjusted their tactics against us. As such we no longer had the element of surprise that we had for the first 3 matches of the season that brought us 7 points. Once oppositon managers did that JM and his tactics were simply a busted flush.

We have had a poor season. Likely teams didn't really pay much attention to us after we beat Wolves and drew with Southampton. Hard to judge us as a team as nobody at that point could really gauge how strong Wolves and Southampton were. Us beating Chelsea, the way we did, was maybe the worst thing we could have done as it made opposition managers take notice. 18 points from 19 is pretty darn poor no matter how you dress it up. 11 points from the last 16 matches after managers became aware of our way of playing is absolutely terrfiying.

Perhaps the expression "Beating a dead Horse" has a different nuance in English parlance? In US usage it means to keep talking about a subject that has already been discussed, decided, or settled. Which the subject of Marsch, his mannerisms, and his tactics have been around here.

Far from disagreeing with you Weasel, it was just a light hearted way of saying give it a rest. The subject has been discussed, argued, and dissected add nauseam.

[GreennWhite]

. I’m not giving up on Kristensen just yet, he has a fair bit to prove though, right enough.

Very good

[weasel]

Radz said he decided they needed to sack Bielsa after the 3-3 draw with Villa.

That was match day 22.

Didn't sack him till after Spurs which was match day 26.

Marsch has been on a worse run than ever Bielsa managed

He must be under severe pressure surely?

I found it bizarre when Radz said that. After watching the game, v Villa, I was absolutely convinced we were staying up. We absolutely battered them early on 1-0 and then Dan James hitting the crossbar. 2-0 then and game over. Then Coutinho turned the match and Villa 3-1 up but the team fought back (for those who like the losing the dressing room theories it would have suggested the dressing room was firmly behind Bielsa). A 3-3 draw with us the ebtter side and Villa clinging on for dear life, Dan James looking like things had clicked up front.For me it showed that despite our defensive problems, which I felt would be rectified with KP back and us getting a settled defence, we were clearly good enough to beat the teams around us.

Strange how different people see the same thing.

[Sara]

Of all the forumites Sara, you are the one who I would least like to get into a debate with, I know my limitations!

But to try and settle an argument with that hackneyed old trope. The one which assumes all straight, white, able bodied men are exactly the same regardless of nature, nurture, personal history, ability, temperament, age, culture, religion, nationality, political leanings, wealth, education, influence, position in society, up-bringing, no matter what, and that not one of them have any problems of their own but spend their whole lives purposefully making the rest of society’s lives a misery, who then, of course, must all be classed as victims - what a load of bunkum.

I'm certainly not assuming the circumstances for all white men are the same, and I do take economic class as the key factor in influencing a person's chances in life.

However, none of them have had to face racism, misogyny, or homophobia, if they are straight, so the appeal to 'banter' to continue making slurs against people on those grounds is pretty feeble.

[weasel]

Perhaps the expression "Beating a dead Horse" has a different nuance in English parlance? In US usage it means to keep talking about a subject that has already been discussed, decided, or settled. Which the subject of Marsch, his mannerisms, and his tactics have been around here.

Far from disagreeing with you Weasel, it was just a light hearted way of saying give it a rest. The subject has been discussed, argued, and dissected add nauseam.

No it has the same meaning Paul however I felt, and CJay agreed, that it was interesting to see the points Marsch had made after the Chelsea win and how, because we won, it seemed everything had fallen into place.

Similar to Kevin Blackwell and Paul Heckingbottom before him it seems Marsch is eager to take all the plaudits when we win and absolve himself of any blame when we lose. I was glad when both those managers were sacked, despite Blackwell having initial success. I think it is just something I don't like.

[velo]

Marsch has proven nothing; neither that he is a capable manager, nor that his system is effective at this level. There is no comparison, so it's not clear what you, and others, expect to demonstrate my continually making it.

Can you list the things Bielsa has won please? I can't find any on Google

[weasel]

Can you list the things Bielsa has won please? I can't find any on Google

If someone could let Velo know that his Google isn't working - don't know if he needs to see a doctor.


Liga Profesional Argentina Winner 2x 1997/1998 Clausura, 1991/1992 Clausura
Championship Winner 1x 2019/2020
Copa del Rey Runner-up 1x 2011/2012
Club International
CONMEBOL Libertadores Runner-up 1x 1992
UEFA Europa League Runner-up 1x 2011/2012

[BlackHillsPaul]

No it has the same meaning Paul however I felt, and CJay agreed, that it was interesting to see the points Marsch had made after the Chelsea win and how, because we won, it seemed everything had fallen into place.

Similar to Kevin Blackwell and Paul Heckingbottom before him it seems Marsch is eager to take all the plaudits when we win and absolve himself of any blame when we lose. I was glad when both those managers were sacked, despite Blackwell having initial success. I think it is just something I don't like.

Fair enough. I was skimming through the threads last night after coming home from the Pub. So there's that....

But I'm also sure that you and Cjay will be beating the dead horse until there is nothing left but bones. And then you will beat it some more until it's dust.

[Rook]

This thread is a bloody warzone.

[Sara]

Can you list the things Bielsa has won please? I can't find any on Google

We saw in his time at Leeds that his system worked most of the time, up until he no longer had the players available to carry it out. We also saw that his coaching was capable of improving Championship rejects to international level.

Marsch has none of that. We're a year in, still fighting relegation, and he's still blaming the players despite having been well backed. We've never put together a run of performances or results under Marsch, and if we wait much longer for the wins to start coming, we're going to find ourselves adrift.

I don't why this repeatedly needs explaining, or why attacking the manager who left a year ago is seen as a justification for Marsch's failings.

[velo]

So , basically you want Jesse gone because you don't like the way we play, and if he keeps us in the PL as he did last year, you still think Bielsa is better manager?
It's obvious you and I aren't going to agree on this

[weasel]

Fair enough. I was skimming through the threads last night after coming home from the Pub. So there's that....

But I'm also sure that you and Cjay will be beating the dead horse until there is nothing left but bones. And then you will beat it some more until it's dust.

If I feel it is justified then hell yeah!

[Cjay]

I have footage of Jesse giving his team talk to the players

mr-bean.gif (184.71 KiB) Viewed 339 times

[Sara]

So , basically you want Jesse gone because you don't like the way we play, and if he keeps us in the PL as he did last year, you still think Bielsa is better manager?
It's obvious you and I aren't going to agree on this

2 wins in 17, it's not good enough, and will get us relegated on current form.

I'll put the question in reverse; why do you think this poor level of performance should keep Marsch in a job, when it didn't for Bielsa, since you're intent on making the comparison?

[velo]

Good question, I'm confident with the recent additions he will turn it round and I'll support him, like I supported Bielsa til it becomes apparent we won't beat relegation

[BreakingTheDuck]

Managers provide performances but the soccer gods provide results, and they f-ing hate us.

The performances have been as expected for a mid table team. The players are working for him. A new manager is more likely to make things worse than better

He now has a complete team, so by season’s end we will have proof whether his tactics can work at the PL level. I personally am waiting for the answer myself. If they don’t, then Marsch will go since he is clearly a system manager. If it works, great. I am never bored watching Leeds matches.

Until then, I am more for buckling up and riding it out instead of running for the parachutes.