geronimo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:10 pm
he has never been good enough from the day we signed him from chesterfield , a total liability , too clumsy ,no pace ,no positional sense ,how he is still at the club ,and captain as well beggars belief . if he is anywhere near the first team next season we are in big trouble , cresswell is twice the player , yet the muppets running the club decided to loan him out to millwall instead .
to be made captain requires not only leadership but ability as well , cooper has neither , strachan , bremner were captains who led by example , cooper is just a plodder who belongs in league 1 or 2 at best . but this club cannot see beyond end of their nose when it comes to judging ability
Never?
Wasn't good enough to captain us in the promotion season? Or the season we finished 9th? Bielsa identified him as one of the best defenders in the championship before he even joined the club. Thank god Bielsa saw something in him that you didn't.
andrewjohnsmith wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:18 pm
With Cooper it means something. The club means something. I always said he was our 4th best center back. But we're a better team when he plays. Too many of this new generation turn up for a paycheck, looking for the next big move, spending more time talking to their agents than the coaching staff. We need people like Cooper. And Ayling and Dallas.
We certainly do. Their experience is invaluable even if none of them were first choice in their positions.
Cooper has always been a good leader at the back, good at organising and a decent reader of the game as well as having the ability to knock a good long pass out of defence. Never afraid to get in the way of a shot. Yes he has made mistakes, most centrebacks do even if not as often.
His partnership with White allowed White to flourish and learn his game, which he did superbly. We have seen this season with Koch that he is a good defender in his own right but not a leader or organiser and we have struggled when eith Wober or Cooper were missing as they both seem to be organisers. Cooper's partnership with the much maligned Llorente at the back end of our first season in the prem was superb. Only 8 goals conceded in 11 games despite playing Chelsea, Man C, Man U, Liverpool and Spurs.
Cooper will never be the greatest or flashiest centreback. When fully fit though he is a valuable asset and will be crucial to allow the likes of Cresswell alongside him to blossom. Even if not fit I am sure he will be encouraging Cresswell and helping him.
Wasn't good enough to captain us in the promotion season? Or the season we finished 9th? Bielsa identified him as one of the best defenders in the championship before he even joined the club. Thank god Bielsa saw something in him that you didn't.
cooper was injured half of the time or suspended , bielsa had to stick with what he had at his disposal throughout the promotion winning season , and the first season back in the premier league , since then it has been a downward spiral to eventual relegation .
if cooper was any good he would have been sold a long time ago , we could not give him away now , the guy is constantly injured a bamford mark 2.
Phild wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:40 pm
Unfortunately our biggest sick note.
Be interested to know the maximum consecutive games he has started in the last 2 seasons.
2022/23 - 16 appearances
Eight consecutive games between 2/10/22 to 12/11/22
The Scottish press are reporting that Scotland’s dramatic turnaround to defeat Norway was sparked by Cooper’s entry as substitute. His vocal leadership and confidence on the ball was cited as the catalyst.
I didn’t see the game as I refuse to pay another TV subscription (VIAPLAY, whatever that is), but it seems our captain has a vital role to play for his national team, so maybe he shouldn’t be written off in the Championship.
WARNING: During game time, any post I make is not to be taken seriously, neither is it meant as offence. I'm a hot-blooded creature prone to moments of exasperation and expletive.
the laughable thing is gordon mcqueen a quality centre back as just recently died, was a permanent fixture in both the leeds and scottish sides, when scotland actually had a decent side back then, with quality players throughout the team, . cooper cant even get in to a scottish side that are nowhere near as good as back then, and would be nowhere near the revie side in terms of ability, he wont be remembered has been in the same bracket as mcqueen, .thats how far the standards have fallen from both sides over the years . its also a sad indignment of many leeds fans of recent times who actually think cooper is any good , but many fans aint seen anything else other than dross in a white shirt for a very long time .
geronimo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:41 am
the laughable thing is gordon mcqueen a quality centre back as just recently died, was a permanent fixture in both the leeds and scottish sides, when scotland actually had a decent side back then, with quality players throughout the team, . cooper cant even get in to a scottish side that are nowhere near as good as back then, and would be nowhere near the revie side in terms of ability, he wont be remembered has been in the same bracket as mcqueen, .thats how far the standards have fallen from both sides over the years . its also a sad indignment of many leeds fans of recent times who actually think cooper is any good , but many fans aint seen anything else other than dross in a white shirt for a very long time .
well if we're judging every player by revie standards then all of our players have been sh*te for a long time and will all be for the foreseeable future...
most teams have had good periods in their histories and then fallen back down, the revie era was 50 years ago, talk about getting with the times...
Orange Box wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:13 am
The Scottish press are reporting that Scotland’s dramatic turnaround to defeat Norway was sparked by Cooper’s entry as substitute. His vocal leadership and confidence on the ball was cited as the catalyst.
I didn’t see the game as I refuse to pay another TV subscription (VIAPLAY, whatever that is), but it seems our captain has a vital role to play for his national team, so maybe he shouldn’t be written off in the Championship.
Don’t confuse the poor sods here that don’t understand football….. Coop is premier league quality, to start with better in transition than say Adams or Pontus, top leader on the field and a Bielsa rated him, not as the only option but a player that thrived in the highly technical Bielsaball….
We’re always worse without him…..he’s still the best left sided CB at the club.
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
The Subhuman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:15 am
Don’t confuse the poor sods here that don’t understand football….. Coop is premier league quality, to start with better in transition than say Adams or Pontus, top leader on the field and a Bielsa rated him, not as the only option but a player that thrived in the highly technical Bielsaball….
We’re always worse without him…..he’s still the best left sided CB at the club.
Is Coops better than Max Wober who is five years his junior?
geronimo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:41 am
the laughable thing is gordon mcqueen a quality centre back as just recently died, was a permanent fixture in both the leeds and scottish sides, when scotland actually had a decent side back then, with quality players throughout the team, . cooper cant even get in to a scottish side that are nowhere near as good as back then, and would be nowhere near the revie side in terms of ability, he wont be remembered has been in the same bracket as mcqueen, .thats how far the standards have fallen from both sides over the years . its also a sad indignment of many leeds fans of recent times who actually think cooper is any good , but many fans aint seen anything else other than dross in a white shirt for a very long time .
Alan Hansen winning titles with LIverpool and European Cups couldn't get into the scottish team as the manager preferred the 2 Aberdeen defenders.
1964white wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:28 am
Is Coops better than Max Wober who is five years his junior?
I know Wober is officially a left-back.
At this point it is more likely that Wober would leave the club than Cooper. Even if Wober stays he seems to be a bit injury prone too, minor niggles than big injuries but he has missed a few games for us. As such for me if we keep Wober I would still look to keep Cooper in the hope that we have at least 1 of them fit every match. If we go down the route of havign Cresswell in the right centreback slot then having Wober or Cooper to marshall the defence is kay. I know people say Cresswell is a leader but at this point I don't know whether that means he shouts a lot or if he is a good organiser - either way better to have him learning from one of the other 2 so he can concentrate on his own match and hopefully live up to the potential that many on here think he has - not convinced by him yet but that is more due to not having seen enough of him playing.
1964white wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:28 am
Is Coops better than Max Wober who is five years his junior?
I know Wober is officially a left-back.
I think he is, different players of course. Don’t forget Llorente was one of our best players through half a season, the same amount of time Wober has been here and he’s made a few errors himself
Last edited by The Subhuman on Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
No point at all comparing 70’s players with modern day…you might as well compare Tom Brady and Lionel Messi as footballers….it’s almost a different sport and players that thrived in the 70’s may have struggled in the modern game and vice versa
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
weasel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:48 am
At this point it is more likely that Wober would leave the club than Cooper. Even if Wober stays he seems to be a bit injury prone too, minor niggles than big injuries but he has missed a few games for us. As such for me if we keep Wober I would still look to keep Cooper in the hope that we have at least 1 of them fit every match. If we go down the route of havign Cresswell in the right centreback slot then having Wober or Cooper to marshall the defence is kay. I know people say Cresswell is a leader but at this point I don't know whether that means he shouts a lot or if he is a good organiser - either way better to have him learning from one of the other 2 so he can concentrate on his own match and hopefully live up to the potential that many on here think he has - not convinced by him yet but that is more due to not having seen enough of him playing.
I would retain Coops.
Hopefully we keep Wober who was excellent in the games he played. I personally feel the Koch/Wober CB partnership is the best I've witnessed since the White/Cooper combination in our promotion season.
geronimo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:41 am
the laughable thing is gordon mcqueen a quality centre back as just recently died, was a permanent fixture in both the leeds and scottish sides, when scotland actually had a decent side back then, with quality players throughout the team, . cooper cant even get in to a scottish side that are nowhere near as good as back then, and would be nowhere near the revie side in terms of ability, he wont be remembered has been in the same bracket as mcqueen, .thats how far the standards have fallen from both sides over the years . its also a sad indignment of many leeds fans of recent times who actually think cooper is any good , but many fans aint seen anything else other than dross in a white shirt for a very long time .
Please read my post, the one above yours. Then refer to the UEFA European Championship Qualifying - Qualifying Group A table. The one where Scotland lead by 5 points. The one including Nations League Champions, Spain. Then reconsider the sentence in your post, the one I’ve highlighted in bold.
I think you might be making the mistake of assuming all Scottish teams are sh:t simply because they are Scottish, it’s an easy argument but not always true. I won’t insult you by calling you xenophobic, I have no evidence of that.
WARNING: During game time, any post I make is not to be taken seriously, neither is it meant as offence. I'm a hot-blooded creature prone to moments of exasperation and expletive.
quality players are quality players in any era , they stand the test of time , most of the all time greats come from the past , comparing cooper to mcqueen or jack charlton is laughable . he aint even been the best centre back at the club since he signed for leeds . we are a championship outfit yet again . woodgate , radebe , ferdinand, were quality , but that was over twenty years ago . like i have previously said many fans need to wake up and smell the coffee that they have been watching and accepting dross for far too long now .
if cooper is anywhere near the side next season we are in big trouble and that is even if he is fit enough to play, and will speak volumes for the ambitions at this club . the guy is a donkey pure and simple .
geronimo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 1:54 pm
quality players are quality players in any era , they stand the test of time , most of the all time greats come from the past , comparing cooper to mcqueen or jack charlton is laughable . he aint even been the best centre back at the club since he signed for leeds . we are a championship outfit yet again . woodgate , radebe , ferdinand, were quality , but that was over twenty years ago . like i have previously said many fans need to wake up and smell the coffee that they have been watching and accepting dross for far too long now .
if cooper is anywhere near the side next season we are in big trouble and that is even if he is fit enough to play, and will speak volumes for the ambitions at this club . the guy is a donkey pure and simple .
noone is comparing cooper to mcqueen or jack charlton - only you
Cooper is more than good enough for a season in the championship if he can stay fit, as he has proven many years including the year he captained us to the title...short memory?
