What methods can you use to break the Low Block

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
User avatar
Sean_Nile
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 2:25 pm

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Sean_Nile »

Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:12 am The video above showing 'it' in all 'it's' glory
They should have a one hour training session at Thorpe Arch where that video would be on continuous repeat and it studied not only from a tactical and technical point of view, but also to observe the beauty of it aesthetically... the flow and the rhythm... the sheer confidence behind every pass... the speed and accuracy at which it was executed was breathtaking. Every player in the exact right place at the right time. How the hell did Pablo cover the length of the pitch to nod the ball home.

It had to be vision, and without a vision the people perish.
User avatar
YorkshireSquare
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11169
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 1:34 pm
Twitter: @motforum
Location: Leeds
Contact:

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by YorkshireSquare »

Lufc76Cor wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 11:44 am Pablo Hernandez

Cheat Code: El Mago
User avatar
Jaydog
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 10490
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:52 pm
Location: Mars

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Jaydog »

Wonderful stuff but the thing is they had 7 players around/in our box & also maybe another player or two inside our half. Wasn’t like that on Saturday. They didn’t commit players forward like Ipswich
User avatar
Orange Box
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2638
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:51 pm
Location: West of Scotland, formerly Cas Vegas

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Orange Box »

Sack Farke and hire Pep. Then sign the entire Citeh squad (except KP, obviously). Low block beaten.

Ps . Please ignore the above, my brain cell has just had an overdose of IrnBru.
WARNING: During game time, any post I make is not to be taken seriously, neither is it meant as offence. I'm a hot-blooded creature prone to moments of exasperation and expletive.
User avatar
Sean_Nile
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 2:25 pm

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Sean_Nile »

I think it is good to remind ourselves what we played like when we were fit and had the desire to win... could you see that happening with last years team?
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 13035
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by weasel »

Sean_Nile wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 10:19 am They should have a one hour training session at Thorpe Arch where that video would be on continuous repeat and it studied not only from a tactical and technical point of view, but also to observe the beauty of it aesthetically... the flow and the rhythm... the sheer confidence behind every pass... the speed and accuracy at which it was executed was breathtaking. Every player in the exact right place at the right time. How the hell did Pablo cover the length of the pitch to nod the ball home.

It had to be vision, and without a vision the people perish.
The trouble is that in relation to this thread that clip is tottally irrelvant. In talking about beating a low block the answer isn't usually going to be score a counter attacking goal as the opposition will not be committing that many men forward
User avatar
Jaydog
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 10490
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:52 pm
Location: Mars

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Jaydog »

weasel wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:09 pm The trouble is that in relation to this thread that clip is tottally irrelvant. In talking about beating a low block the answer isn't usually going to be score a counter attacking goal as the opposition will not be committing that many men forward
As I said above 👆
I’d like a stat on all the times we faced this under Bielsa. A dogged low block if you’ll excuse the pun.
User avatar
Sean_Nile
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 2:25 pm

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Sean_Nile »

weasel wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:09 pm The trouble is that in relation to this thread that clip is tottally irrelvant. In talking about beating a low block the answer isn't usually going to be score a counter attacking goal as the opposition will not be committing that many men forward
In the original post I said

Counterattacks: Exploit transitions when the opposing team commits players forward, quickly transitioning to attack before they can regroup defensively.


and I think that clip precisely illustrates that principle. Even a team set up to park the bus must attack sometimes.

But regardless of whether they were back in 2 banks of four, I hope you can find some joy in the finesse of that goal.
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 13035
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by weasel »

Orange Box wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:58 pm Sack Farke and hire Pep. Then sign the entire Citeh squad (except KP, obviously). Low block beaten.

Ps . Please ignore the above, my brain cell has just had an overdose of IrnBru.
At times it takes City a long time to make the breakthrough in games. It is just football and the law of averages at times. No idea as to how many shots it takes on average for a team to score but let's say it is 8 shots for Leeds per goal.

So against Ipswich we scored 4 from 14 shots so it was way above average. As such the law of averages when it evens out means that we are due 18 shots without a goal. So the fact we scored just 1 from our next 48 shots means we are 22 shots behind schedule so due nearly 3 goals.

Now in that example I used 8 shots per goal. We may likely be expected to score at a lower rate whereas a team like City will score at a higher rate simply due to having better finishers. As such City might not be better at breaking the low press but if they statistically score every 6 shots then they would be due 8 goals from 48 shots whereas on my example we'd be due 6. It may be that we statistically usually score 1 in 12 chances so would have only been due to score 4 goals from our 48 chances.

Key is simply in being more clinical. Hopefully Piroe will be clinical for us, hopefully Rutter will find his shooting boots.
User avatar
Leeds1000
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 3486
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:11 pm

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Leeds1000 »

Lufc76Cor wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 11:44 am Pablo Hernandez
He'd have a field day with the attack minded players we currently have. Sadly players like Pablo don't grow on trees and are hard to come by at Championship prices. We got lucky last time with the Monk connection. He obviously knew Pablo well.
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 13035
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by weasel »

Sean_Nile wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:43 pm In the original post I said

Counterattacks: Exploit transitions when the opposing team commits players forward, quickly transitioning to attack before they can regroup defensively.


and I think that clip precisely illustrates that principle. Even a team set up to park the bus must attack sometimes.

But regardless of whether they were back in 2 banks of four, I hope you can find some joy in the finesse of that goal.
Trouble is it doesn't. I don't know the score at that point of that match or whether the opposition needed to attack, i.e. their league position meant they were going for a win. As such the clip in isolation is just a good example of a coutner attack not a way of beating a low block.

Sheff Wed hardly looked to attack us at all until they grew in confidence due to the fact we weren't 2 or 3 up. At that point we were going a bit more gung ho and throwing more people forward leaving us more vulnerable to the type of counter attack that we ironically saw in that video.

It was reminiscent of many Bielsa matches where we dominated matches. Now if we scored early in those matches suddenly we dominated less as the opposition could no longer simply stifle us. If we didn't score early we'd continue to dominate but as the match wore on the opposition would eventually get some openings. If the opposition scored first it would ismply be park the bus even more.

Some of our best football under Bielsa came with the score at 0-0 where the opposition simply allowed us to dictate play. We rarely won by more than a goal despite hugely dominant stats (or if we did it would be us getting a late goal or two to add gloss to the scoreline when the opposition gave it a go late on when they were behind and we hit them with counter attacks).
User avatar
Kennyb41
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 8799
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Kennyb41 »

Like i used to try and tell folk..' Bert couldn't put the ball in the net for them and, you can lead horses to water'

But no, they wanted him sacked, and now we have half the man attempting to do 'it' his way, but that half is a damn site better than our previous muppets.

Move it quicker, get the squad all used to each other and the plan, then let's see.
Still being proven right years on.
Radz is a businessman - and knows nowt about football.
Orta is a fraud - and knows nowt about footballers.
Bert - A footballing mastermind that they both got lucky with, end of.

Timely member of a clique.
8-)
User avatar
Orange Box
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2638
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:51 pm
Location: West of Scotland, formerly Cas Vegas

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Orange Box »

weasel wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 3:04 pm At times it takes City a long time to make the breakthrough in games. It is just football and the law of averages at times. No idea as to how many shots it takes on average for a team to score but let's say it is 8 shots for Leeds per goal.

So against Ipswich we scored 4 from 14 shots so it was way above average. As such the law of averages when it evens out means that we are due 18 shots without a goal. So the fact we scored just 1 from our next 48 shots means we are 22 shots behind schedule so due nearly 3 goals.

Now in that example I used 8 shots per goal. We may likely be expected to score at a lower rate whereas a team like City will score at a higher rate simply due to having better finishers. As such City might not be better at breaking the low press but if they statistically score every 6 shots then they would be due 8 goals from 48 shots whereas on my example we'd be due 6. It may be that we statistically usually score 1 in 12 chances so would have only been due to score 4 goals from our 48 chances.

Key is simply in being more clinical. Hopefully Piroe will be clinical for us, hopefully Rutter will find his shooting boots.
I know who you are now. You’re my old maths teacher, you b****rd. :rant:
WARNING: During game time, any post I make is not to be taken seriously, neither is it meant as offence. I'm a hot-blooded creature prone to moments of exasperation and expletive.
User avatar
Byebyegeegee
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2391
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:14 pm
Location: God’s own county (north)

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Byebyegeegee »

weasel wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:09 pm The trouble is that in relation to this thread that clip is tottally irrelvant. In talking about beating a low block the answer isn't usually going to be score a counter attacking goal as the opposition will not be committing that many men forward
That is true weasel. Any joy that Sheffield Wednesday had, stemmed only from a hoof ball over our high press for their one man, who was not in and around their penalty box, to run on to. If he managed, somehow, to hold onto the ball then a couple more of their players would try and join him, but not once in the match did they fully commit in an attacking sense and, therefore, a beautiful goal like Pablo’s, even with perfect passing and placement, was never really on the cards.
User avatar
AcrossThePondAsh
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:03 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mtns, NC, USA

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by AcrossThePondAsh »

Byebyegeegee wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:39 am That is true weasel. Any joy that Sheffield Wednesday had, stemmed only from a hoof ball over our high press for their one man, who was not in and around their penalty box, to run on to. If he managed, somehow, to hold onto the ball then a couple more of their players would try and join him, but not once in the match did they fully commit in an attacking sense and, therefore, a beautiful goal like Pablo’s, even with perfect passing and placement, was never really on the cards.
Exactly, Bye. If you roll the tape to the seven second mark you can see four opponent players a couple of yards inside the eighteen yard box, one just outside it, and one more in the frame a few more yards further down the pitch. This is not to take away from the beauty of Panel's goal, but just to outline the contrast in the two different states of play.
In Farke we trust...
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 13035
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by weasel »

In the season when we got promoted we scored 1 goal or less in 26 (out of 46) matches. I don't think there is a need to panic we just need to keep doing what we are doing, keep creating the chances and hopefully in enough matches we will nick a goal, or more, and win.
User avatar
hector
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11157
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Salisbury

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by hector »

The nature of the beast is:......

Once we score 1, the odds are we will score more, as the oppostion can no longer park the bus, and have to try attacking..
That's not to say that we won't concede any...... We just have to go to the old addage of scoring more than them.....
DILLIGAF??

I'm just WTF-ing my way through life......
User avatar
DDB220
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 3171
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:17 am

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by DDB220 »

Quality players beat a low block. Having one or two players who consistently can beat their man, deliver a pin point through ball, or find a yard of space either through great movement or pure skill is hard to defend against as a unit.
If the attacking team go through a repetitive process of trying to get in behind or making speculative crosses, as long as a defender does not feck it up then keeping the attacking team from scoring is a matter of discipline.
User avatar
Finnatic
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2795
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: What methods can you use to break the Low Block

Post by Finnatic »

Orange Box wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 7:33 am I know who you are now. You’re my old maths teacher, you b****rd. :rant:
That reminds me of an old Milton Jones joke.

I bumped into my old maths teacher the other day, he was working on a Fruit and Veg stall, so I went up to him and said…
“If apples are thirty pence each or four for a pound…”
Post Reply