The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 5th September) Farke to keep his faith with Rutter

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Tuesday 5th September, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Farke to keep his faith with Rutter

Daniel Farke has insisted he's happy with Georginio Rutter's progress, but he needs to be more brutal in front of goal. He had tried a clever lob, on one of the rare accessions Leeds found themselves one on one with Devis Vásquez (the Sheffield Wednesday keeper), but the execution was lacking. The Leeds gaffer had to console the distraught 21yo after the game, explaining to him, 'it doesn't have to look great, it just has to find the back of the net'.

In contrast to the Ipswich game, where Rutter was lorded by all and sundry, he was remembered for his most recent exploits for different reasons. He couldn't hide his disappointment (after the final whistle) and was given a warm embrace by several Leeds players. Rutter currently operates the centre-forward role, with Joel Piroe sitting just behind him as a No 10. Given the former Swansea players goal ratio, it would be fair to say he would be more suited as a nine, but where would that leave Rutter?

It's important that he's fit and comes into his rhythm and he proved at Ipswich he's in really good shape. As a striker you can't really explain, there are times you find it unbelievably difficult to score and at other times you look at the ball and it goes in". "I spoke to him and told him the solution is not to overthink too much and when you find it difficult to find the net, don't try to be too artificial. It doesn't have to look great, it just has to find the back of the net.

For example, he tried the lob, you need to be there with a brutal finish. He's still a young lad, a young player and has to develop this attitude. During tough times not to overthink and feel sorry for himself. Go for a clinical, brutal finish. That's what he will learn. All strikers have these periods. We're happy we have him.

Mourinho regretting signing Leeds duo

Denmark star, turned Judas, Rasmus Kristensen could return to Elland Road in January if rumours in the Italian press regarding his future are to be believed. The 26 year old has fallen behind both Zeki Celik and Rick Karsdorp in the pecking order at Roma, and is expected to be left out of their Europa League squad. He was named in the starting line up for the season opener against Salernitana, but was substituted at half time in his second match against Verona, and did not feature at all against Milan.

Who would have thought, that after investing so heavily in the likes of Llorente and Kristensen that Roma would find themselves in the drop zone of Serie A?





If you were guaranteed a play off place now, would you take it

Five games in, Leeds find themselves in 15th place in the Championship, with six points on the board, seven points off leaders Preston. It was always going to be a tough ask for any Manager coming in mid Summer, especially with the off field problems Daniel Farke has had to deal with. In truth, the signings look a much better fit, than that of last season; but how long will it take to get the team to gel?

If you were guaranteed a play off place now, would you take it?

[Jaydog]

“Clever lob”. Nah, he should’ve taken a touch and battered it not messing about trying fancy finishes.

100% take a play off place.

[Byebyegeegee]

Have Roma invested heavily in Kristensen and Llorente? All they are committed to is paying their wages for a season, or less, if they want. Unfortunately, we were the ones to invest heavily in these players, to the tune of £30m, and like most things stemming from Victor Orta’s invaluable work, we will be the ones to pay heavily for it.

Play off place? I don’t know, ask me again in 5 game’s time!

[billysboots]

Yeah, it’s too soon to settle finishing in the top six.

[Clitheroe White]

Play off place assurance - No

We can get to top 2, and we always mess up the play-offs (so we need to get to the top 2)

[Clitheroe White]

If Roma are in the bottom by Oct, then Moriniho will be sacked and the slate cleaned (another chance for the Llor and Kris comedy act)

[Sean_Nile]

Transcript from radio interview:
Yes but, no but, yes but, the grass was too long it slowed the ball down, and anyway either the sun or the floodlights were in my eyes, and I expect the ball was not at the correct psi, and the nike logo on the ball threw me, I'm usually used to the ones with three stripes, and I was confused and disorientated by the goalkeepers jersey, colours like that should not be allowed, and did I say that the rainbow laces on my boots were a total distraction, spoiled my concentration, and had my mind focused on gender politics instead of scoring a goal.

[Chilli D]

No idea what has happened to Kristensen at Roma, obviously he's not faired well but he did okay for us without being outstanding. No better or worse than Ayling imo. Some games good, others poor.
If Roma send him back in January, I expect the club will look to loan him to someone else unless we have an injury crisis.
I probably would take a top 6 finish but I still think we can finish in the top 2.

[Irish Ian]

Morning,

The goal that Rutter scored against Ipswich seems to forgotten pretty quickly methinks.

DF should be allowed the time and space to develop this squad along the lines that he sees fit.
That includes Rutter. Who is a hell of a lot more talented that Bamford but who lacks the experience.
For me is is a hybrid, a new type of player who will terrorise defences in the years to come, if he and Piroe can form a partnership who rotate then that could be something special.
If we allow them to grow and stop being so bloody demanding all the time

Roma, We actually could do with these two having a good season. For the record.
Rasmus is ON A SEASON LONG deal - So the chances of him coming back to EL are negligible.


LLorente has played in three out of three so far, has one assist and Roma have lost two close games by the odd goal.


Would I take a play off place?

Impossible to say, what I want to see this season is a squad of players who have an positive playing identity playing attractive football.

I want the likes of Gray, Rutter, Gnonto and Ampadu to become objects of Leeds folklore, part of our DNA, a platform on which to build a proper PL presence, if that takes a couple of seasons then so be it
I want the fun back first. I dont want to promote and have to rebuild a new team.

[Ellandback1]

Have Roma invested heavily in Kristensen and Llorente? All they are committed to is paying their wages for a season, or less, if they want. Unfortunately, we were the ones to invest heavily in these players, to the tune of £30m, and like most things stemming from Victor Orta’s invaluable work, we will be the ones to pay heavily for it.

Play off place? I don’t know, ask me again in 5 game’s time!

It was a tongue in cheek comment taking the p*** out of Roma to be fair...

[lufc1304]

Morning,

The goal that Rutter scored against Ipswich seems to forgotten pretty quickly methinks.

DF should be allowed the time and space to develop this squad along the lines that he sees fit.
That includes Rutter. Who is a hell of a lot more talented that Bamford but who lacks the experience.
For me is is a hybrid, a new type of player who will terrorise defences in the years to come, if he and Piroe can form a partnership who rotate then that could be something special.
If we allow them to grow and stop being so bloody demanding all the time

Roma, We actually could do with these two having a good season. For the record.
Rasmus is ON A SEASON LONG deal - So the chances of him coming back to EL are negligible.


LLorente has played in three out of three so far, has one assist and Roma have lost two close games by the odd goal.


Would I take a play off place?

Impossible to say, what I want to see this season is a squad of players who have an positive playing identity playing attractive football.

I want the likes of Gray, Rutter, Gnonto and Ampadu to become objects of Leeds folklore, part of our DNA, a platform on which to build a proper PL presence, if that takes a couple of seasons then so be it
I want the fun back first. I dont want to promote and have to rebuild a new team.

This

[Ellandback1]

Morning,

The goal that Rutter scored against Ipswich seems to forgotten pretty quickly methinks.

DF should be allowed the time and space to develop this squad along the lines that he sees fit.
That includes Rutter. Who is a hell of a lot more talented that Bamford but who lacks the experience.
For me is is a hybrid, a new type of player who will terrorise defences in the years to come, if he and Piroe can form a partnership who rotate then that could be something special.
If we allow them to grow and stop being so bloody demanding all the time

Roma, We actually could do with these two having a good season. For the record.
Rasmus is ON A SEASON LONG deal - So the chances of him coming back to EL are negligible.


LLorente has played in three out of three so far, has one assist and Roma have lost two close games by the odd goal.


Would I take a play off place?

Impossible to say, what I want to see this season is a squad of players who have an positive playing identity playing attractive football.

I want the likes of Gray, Rutter, Gnonto and Ampadu to become objects of Leeds folklore, part of our DNA, a platform on which to build a proper PL presence, if that takes a couple of seasons then so be it
I want the fun back first. I dont want to promote and have to rebuild a new team.

The goal v Ipswch was sublime. He skipped passed 5 players like the ball was glued to his boot before finding the back of the net. After that dreadful penalty v Salford, he could have done with a good performance last Saturday.

I just hope that Having Piroe further back doesn't impact on goals!!!!

[Ellandback1]

Morning,

The goal that Rutter scored against Ipswich seems to forgotten pretty quickly methinks.

DF should be allowed the time and space to develop this squad along the lines that he sees fit.
That includes Rutter. Who is a hell of a lot more talented that Bamford but who lacks the experience.
For me is is a hybrid, a new type of player who will terrorise defences in the years to come, if he and Piroe can form a partnership who rotate then that could be something special.
If we allow them to grow and stop being so bloody demanding all the time

Roma, We actually could do with these two having a good season. For the record.
Rasmus is ON A SEASON LONG deal - So the chances of him coming back to EL are negligible.


LLorente has played in three out of three so far, has one assist and Roma have lost two close games by the odd goal.

This is actually really interested, and relates under what circumstances a loan contract can be terminated.

3. CONSEQUENCES UNDER THE NEW RSTP WHERE THE LOAN CONTRACT HAS BEEN TERMINATED

a) The Home Club’s obligation to take back a player
The most significant clarification made by the New RSTP relates to the contractual consequences of a premature termination of the employment contract signed between the player and the Loanee Club.8 In such circumstances, the Home Club will be obliged to take the player back immediately upon the request of the player. From that moment on, the original employment contract that had been suspended for the duration of the loan will be in force, such that the Home Club must pay the player’s wages.9

Although it is not spelled out within the rules as to loans, it is the author’s view that, if in such circumstances the Home Club refuses to immediately reintegrate the player, a tribunal would likely deem the original contract to have been unilaterally terminated by the Home Club, such that the consequences under Article 17 of the RSTP (for termination without just cause) will apply.

b) Financial consequences following the premature return of a player to his Home Club
The New RSTP are unclear as to the financial and/or sporting consequences which will result when there has been a unilateral termination of the employment contract between the player and the Loanee Club.

This may give rise to some issues. For example, where a player has terminated their contract with the Loanee Club without just cause such that their Home Club has been “forced” to reintegrate them, what would be the position of the Home Club? In accordance with Article 17 paragraph 2 of the RSTP “if a professional is required to pay compensation, the professional and his new club shall be jointly and severally liable for its payment”. “New club” is defined in the RSTP as “the club that the player is joining”, and the FIFA Dispute Resolution Chamber (“DRC”) has consistently held that the new club is the first club with which the player was registered following the breach of contract.10 Therefore, in the contemplated scenario, the Home Club could be jointly liable to pay any compensation that the player might have to pay to the Loanee Club, notwithstanding that it had no choice but to reintegrate the player. Perhaps surprisingly, such an approach has been taken in the past by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (the “CAS”).11

It thus seems that a player’s unjustified termination of the loan contract could put their Home Club in an impossible situation. Either it takes the player back immediately (as required by the New RSTP) and risks being liable to the Loanee Club for the player’s breach, or it refuses to do so, which could amount to a breach of its contract with the player. It will therefore be interesting to see how the DRC decides any such cases.

c) The new concept of compensation introduced by Article 10 paragraph 5 c)
At Article 10 paragraph 5 c), the New RSTP permit the Home Club to “seek compensation resulting from its obligation to reintegrate the professional”.

The New RSTP do not specify from whom the Home Club may seek this compensation. However, we assume that compensation would be sought from the player or the Loanee Club, depending on which party breached the employment contract such as to cause the early return of the player.

Article 10 paragraph 5 c) further provides that the minimum compensation payable shall be the amount the Home Club must pay the player between the date of reintegration and the original completion date of the loan.

Accordingly, in a case where the player breached the loan contract, will it be the case that the Home Club, now jointly and severally liable to pay the compensation owed by the player to the Loanee Club, could take account of that liability when calculating the compensation to be sought from the player? In fact, the Home Club could end up having to pay a player’s salary (following the player’s unjustified termination of a loan contract) whilst pursuing the same player for compensation in relation to those payments (which would not have been required had the player not terminated the loan contract).

d) Jurisdiction
Finally, another issue which may arise under the New RSTP is where the Home Club and the player have the same nationality and the player has been loaned to a club in another country.

In such circumstances, any claim of the Loanee Club against the player for breach of the contract would fall within the competence of FIFA, as such a claim would have an international dimension.

However, any claim of the Home Club against the player for compensation in application of Article 10 paragraph 5 c) would not have an international dimension, such that, despite being based on FIFA regulations, such a claim would seemingly not fall within the competence of FIFA.

[Ellandback1]

RSTP = Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players

[Irish Ian]

So the gist of that is that the players desire to return is part of the contract.

So can you see Rasmus wanting to come back to Leeds when he knows he wont get a game either?

Plus if the loan club insists he returns he then gets paid the wages at the rate of his home club.

I think the nice climate in Rome might weigh heavily on Rasmus

[prutbrk]

I don't want to see any of those deserting rats back at ER. Nothing more to add on that as it's that plain and simple for me
As regards to place in the league. Keep the faith. Top two incoming. HMS P**s The League has only just raised anchor and has just left dock with a new Captain and crew onboard. Just wait until it gets into open seas. MOT

[Byebyegeegee]

It was a tongue in cheek comment taking the p*** out of Roma to be fair...

Ok Elland, understood, but it allowed me to have another thoroughly deserved pop at our friend Victor .

[GreennWhite]

Its still very early days yet for the players to be fully used to how each other plays, I'm talking about the new signings here. Its also very early days for Farke to fully understand how best to use the likes of Willy, Rutter, Piroe, Jimmy in attack. Plus he has Poveda, James and Bamford coming back from injury, and Anthony to fit in. He will have ideas in his head as to what he thinks might work but until he plays them in proper match situations he wont really know. He may well get ideas wrong, but he has to try things. Playing games in training and working on different formations is one thing, having them work in league games is another.

[mentalcase]

Morning all.
Rutter fully deserves to be given a chance, if roberts got 435 chances so should rutter, DF is absolutely correct with his take on things, hopefully the kid repays the faith and comes into his own.

Roma, ha, keep the tossers, don't want ant scab back, even sinisterra.

Top 6 at the start of this shitshow = yes, now we have a manager going about things in the correct manner and the team are settling !!
My prediction before all this was 8th I think, since then, we are more settled and composed, hoping (maybe in desperation heart over head type) top 2 is within our reach

[Ellandback1]

So the gist of that is that the players desire to return is part of the contract.

So can you see Rasmus wanting to come back to Leeds when he knows he wont get a game either?

Plus if the loan club insists he returns he then gets paid the wages at the rate of his home club.

I think the nice climate in Rome might weigh heavily on Rasmus