Daniel Farke

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
Post Reply
User avatar
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 41836
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Cjay »

malcolmw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:18 am So in your mind we should just fire him now?
I wouldn't have appointed him in the first place, never was convinced even when he was at Norwich.

Sorry but only 3 times on performance analysis has a league winner won the Championship in the last 9 seasons and overachieved and should have finished lower, Farke managed 2 of them.

Do I want him to succeed? Absolutely for us I do.

Do I think he will be the reason for it if we do? No, same as I think a manager whose side conceded 57 goals (the most of any winner of this league for 30+years ) probably got lucky somewhere along the line and his name was Teemu Pukki.

If I'm wrong about him brilliant, I will apologise profusely and hold my hands up.

But a pattern is developing of poor performances, poor game management (1st halves Norwich and Southampton, QPR home and Stoke) and stubborn selection choices.

And I don't see a discernable playing style, do you? Because at the minute it's basically Norwich without Buendia and Pukki like in his 1st season where he finished 14th

Sack him now no, but he should be doing better.
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
User avatar
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 41836
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Cjay »

Kennyb41 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:14 am Ok then Cjay bottom line - Do you want DF sacked ?
Sacked no not yet.

But I think he should be doing better and I don't like the pattern that is developing
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
User avatar
Madron
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3673
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:46 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Madron »

Cjay wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:34 pm Sacked no not yet.

But I think he should be doing better and I don't like the pattern that is developing
What about swapping him for Iraola right now ?

Were you not smitten by him (Iraola) not long ago
User avatar
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 41836
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Cjay »

Madron wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:04 pm What about swapping him for Iraola right now ?

Were you not smitten by him (Iraola) not long ago
In this league with this squad? 100% I'd swap.

Nothing Farke has done is as impressive as Iraola getting the team with the smallest budget in La Liga to comfortable mid table twice and a cup semi final as well as 2nd division Mirandes to one as well.
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
User avatar
Kennyb41
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 12426
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Kennyb41 »

Cjay wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:34 pm Sacked no not yet.

But I think he should be doing better and I don't like the pattern that is developing
From near the bottom with no bench to 3rd, with a couple of bad results along the way ?
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game :geek: ...That Ayling goal and "You couldn't script it :lol: " - Dirty Leeds B@stard.
Must dash.
;@)
User avatar
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 41836
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Cjay »

Kennyb41 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:52 pm From near the bottom with no bench to 3rd, with a couple of bad results along the way ?
It isn't just that (and I'm sure I will be accused of being negative here).

But it's the players in wrong positions not getting the best out of them. It's the tactics away from home which directly contribute to that (and are backed up by stats).

It's the slow starts against teams like Norwich, Stoke, Southampton, QPR.

We've played 6 teams in the top half and beaten 1.
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
User avatar
Kennyb41
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 12426
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Kennyb41 »

Cjay wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 2:00 pm It isn't just that (and I'm sure I will be accused of being negative here).

But it's the players in wrong positions not getting the best out of them. It's the tactics away from home which directly contribute to that (and are backed up by stats).

It's the slow starts against teams like Norwich, Stoke, Southampton, QPR.

We've played 6 teams in the top half and beaten 1.
Don't worry about it yet.

Norwich was a bit of a concern, but easily could've been 2-2 at h/t, our play v them was ok, they got the rub of the green, we didn't, then we did when he went at them.

Soton caught him cold and out-thunk him from the start - I hope he learned from it because that was our worst performance imo.

I can't really remember the QPR game i think i'm going fcked.

And Stoke there are again reasons for it that he's got to address, he held his hand up with the comment of 11 players for the season, and fcked Bambi up the arse (deservedly so)
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game :geek: ...That Ayling goal and "You couldn't script it :lol: " - Dirty Leeds B@stard.
Must dash.
;@)
Leeds1000
Manager
Manager
Posts: 4157
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:11 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Leeds1000 »

Keep the faith. 13 games in he's doing a sterling job imo. When it goes to plan our attacking football is brilliant to watch. Ipswich will hit the wall at some point. We are a little weak in midfield for my personal liking but hopefully the club will ship a couple out in January and bring in a couple.
User avatar
Madron
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3673
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:46 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Madron »

Leeds1000 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 2:42 pm Keep the faith. 13 games in he's doing a sterling job imo. When it goes to plan our attacking football is brilliant to watch. Ipswich will hit the wall at some point. We are a little weak in midfield for my personal liking but hopefully the club will ship a couple out in January and bring in a couple.
They have a tough Dec especially playing us @ Elland Rd then away to Leicester 3 days later over Xmas. Also Boro (A) and Norwich.
Could be a very testing month for them.
User avatar
AcrossThePondAsh
Manager
Manager
Posts: 4931
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:03 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mtns, NC, USA

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by AcrossThePondAsh »

lufc1304 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:53 am I'm not an apologist for Farke, Ash, he's made some wrong calls, I think we all agree on that. But I do think we need to be realistic about where we are and why we're there. I am, in general, happy with the direction of travel and what DF is trying to do, but the ripple effect of the summer, as you quite rightly point out, has left us a little behind the 8 ball and it may be that we don't catch up this season. I hope we do, but I don't think it's a given. Kenny made a point re him having only had half a window to try and get the optimal personnel for how he wants us to play, and the fact that he's, to an extent, making do. And I think he's making a pretty decent fist of it. Yes, he's not as transformative as Bielsa was with an, admittedly, weaker squad, but that was Bielsa, a man like him doesn't come along too often in the history of a club.

Ultimately, we all want the same thing, and no-one's opinion is more valid than anyone else's, but the rush toward negativity does bug me at times. Maybe that's common across all fan bases but, given how poorly this club has been run in recent seasons, where we are now feels like a very positive step out of the mire. In my opinion
Agreed, LUFC. Also, didn't mean to imply you were a DF apologist, but rather just wanting to acknowledge the obvious I guess, as I sometimes, personally, feel like a broken record bring up the issues from the summer, etc. and their impact on our current position, squad, etc. As you shared, what's important to me is that the overall trajectory of the club as a whole is in the right direction, which refreshingly I think it is.

What's also interesting to me is the idea of context as it relates to how we judge the club. For example, the fact that Leicester and Ipswich are having literally unprecedented starts to the season changes the lens through which we see, and even measure, our own progress. In the same vein, who couldn't help but be somewhat traumatized by the last two seasons and how things went with nearly all aspects of the club. I think this is another factor that determines how people view our current progress--it's much easier to fall into a negative headspace, or view, if you've spent a large part of the last two seasons on that same headspace.
User avatar
malcolmw
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 3722
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:20 am
Location: Qualicum Beach, BC, Canada

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by malcolmw »

Cjay wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 2:00 pm It isn't just that (and I'm sure I will be accused of being negative here).

But it's the players in wrong positions not getting the best out of them. It's the tactics away from home which directly contribute to that (and are backed up by stats).

It's the slow starts against teams like Norwich, Stoke, Southampton, QPR.

We've played 6 teams in the top half and beaten 1.
I am just re-reading Hay's book on Bielsa.
Leeds thought they had no chance of getting Bielsa. They made contact and didn't hear anything for a few days. Then Bielsa returned the message and said he was interested in talking as he was intrigued by "the project".

From the moment the in-person conversation started down in Argentina and Bielsa, in his brilliant way having done all his research, gave a list of players he wanted to stay and players who must leave, and the changes and improvements he wanted at Thorp Arch, every reference he made was to "the project".

After the fiasco of the last 2 seasons, Cjay, you need to understand this too is a project. It is in fact, a multi-year project in my view.

In my humble opinion, I don't think it would be good for us to be promoted this year - we are not ready! I know you think the longer you stay in the this league, the harder it is to get out of it - and there's truth to that - but to me the far, far larger danger is going up and then coming straight back down in 2 or 3 years. We are going to see this again this season. It already seems high flying Burnley from last year, could well be relegated. As may at least one of the other promoted teams.

I still maintain Farke inherited an absolute train wreck (which BTW started long before Radz and Orta).
In many ways it was way worse than what Bielsa got handed. Worse because so much more was out of his control. Bielsa demanded his immediate improvements to training facilities - which cost Leeds over a million pounds before Bielsa was even in England. Do you for one moment think Farke could have made similar demands, which would have been agreed to? We didn't even know who was signing the club's cheques in July ffs!!

There's a tip often given to large company CEO"s - "its easy to manage short, and it's easy to manage long. The tough thing to do is manage short and long."
I, like you, want the best for our club. Where we differ is that I want stability before anything else. I don't want a revolving door of managers, staff or even players, like the last 20 years or more. (i'd rather keep Ayling, Coops and Co. on the payroll ... purely for stability).

The first phase of this project then, in my view, is to stabilize the squad, the relationship with club leadership and the Board, and then get all this starting to fire on all cylinders. What we are seeing now - a fantastic performance followed by an absolutely dismal one (done that 3 times already!) is of course frustrating as hell. But its absolutely typical of an unstable situation. It's the same in a football club as it is in any organization.

There's a great saying in aviation - when a pilot has a sudden major calamity like a lost engine or a fire to deal with, the rule is "Aviate, Evaluate, then Communicate". Keep the goddamn plane in the air first, then evaluate the problem and lastly communicate to everyone who needs to know what's happening and what you're doing.

I think Farke has been keeping the LUFC plane limping along in the air, while he's evaluating - will take a bit more time - and then I believe he can start making Bielsa type demands for resources. But spending and changing stuff now, simply will create more instability. Let's just keep putting one foot in front of the other. We are doing just fine!!

My last point and then I'll get off my soapbox - you said Falke is closer to Marsh than Bielsa. To even put Farke on the same planet to Marsh is downright ridiculous.

MOT!
User avatar
malcolmw
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 3722
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:20 am
Location: Qualicum Beach, BC, Canada

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by malcolmw »

malcolmw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:38 pm I am just re-reading Hay's book on Bielsa.
Leeds thought they had no chance of getting Bielsa. They made contact and didn't hear anything for a few days. Then Bielsa returned the message and said he was interested in talking as he was intrigued by "the project".

From the moment the in-person conversation started down in Argentina and Bielsa, in his brilliant way having done all his research, gave a list of players he wanted to stay and players who must leave, and the changes and improvements he wanted at Thorp Arch, every reference he made was to "the project".

After the fiasco of the last 2 seasons, Cjay, you need to understand this too is a project. It is in fact, a multi-year project in my view.

In my humble opinion, I don't think it would be good for us to be promoted this year - we are not ready! I know you think the longer you stay in the this league, the harder it is to get out of it - and there's truth to that - but to me the far, far larger danger is going up and then coming straight back down in 2 or 3 years. We are going to see this again this season. It already seems high flying Burnley from last year, could well be relegated. As may at least one of the other promoted teams.

I still maintain Farke inherited an absolute train wreck (which BTW started long before Radz and Orta).
In many ways it was way worse than what Bielsa got handed. Worse because so much more was out of his control. Bielsa demanded his immediate improvements to training facilities - which cost Leeds over a million pounds before Bielsa was even in England. Do you for one moment think Farke could have made similar demands, which would have been agreed to? We didn't even know who was signing the club's cheques in July ffs!!

There's a tip often given to large company CEO"s - "its easy to manage short, and it's easy to manage long. The tough thing to do is manage short and long."
I, like you, want the best for our club. Where we differ is that I want stability before anything else. I don't want a revolving door of managers, staff or even players, like the last 20 years or more. (i'd rather keep Ayling, Coops and Co. on the payroll ... purely for stability).

The first phase of this project then, in my view, is to stabilize the squad, the relationship with club leadership and the Board, and then get all this starting to fire on all cylinders. What we are seeing now - a fantastic performance followed by an absolutely dismal one (done that 3 times already!) is of course frustrating as hell. But its absolutely typical of an unstable situation. It's the same in a football club as it is in any organization.

There's a great saying in aviation - when a pilot has a sudden major calamity like a lost engine or a fire to deal with, the rule is "Aviate, Evaluate, then Communicate". Keep the goddamn plane in the air first, then evaluate the problem and lastly communicate to everyone who needs to know what's happening and what you're doing.

I think Farke has been keeping the LUFC plane limping along in the air, while he's evaluating - will take a bit more time - and then I believe he can start making Bielsa type demands for resources. But spending and changing stuff now, simply will create more instability. Let's just keep putting one foot in front of the other. We are doing just fine!!

My last point and then I'll get off my soapbox - you said Falke is closer to Marsh than Bielsa. To even put Farke on the same planet to Marsh is downright ridiculous. Marsh did plenty of communicating, a little bit of evaluation and totally forgot to aviate!!

MOT!
DDB220
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 7092
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:17 am

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by DDB220 »

The problem we will face if we miss out on promotion is holding on to our best players.

Financially, in so many ways to keep the plane in the air it would be very advantageous to get promoted.

All those players returning from loan deals, some of whom DF may seek to offload will command a better transfer figure if we are a prem club.

If we do not get promoted it will be difficult to hold onto the likes of Summerville, Gnonto and possibly Rutter. There will no guarantees attached to retaining Struijk Ampadu and Gray either.

Next season in the Championship could just be as chaotic as this season. Whilst DF, if he was retained may have a proper pre-season he would potentially be looking at another squad build.

Whilst we may get a lot of money in from player sales spending what is available wisely is never a given.


If we do not get promoted I doubt DF’s job would be safe. He would need to be in the playoffs as a minimum IMO.

I understand what CJAY alludes to. DF has changed his tactical approach since Norwich. This is not necessarily a bad omen. I think like most teams we press intuitively rather than full heavy metal. This is the new happy medium most of the big sides in Europe now adopt. Setting traps etc. of course for it to work effectively you need good team chemistry, coordination and a certain level of player intelligence.
Have we got all these components running as he would wish currently - Unlikely.

But I have a a high degree of optimism currently.
User avatar
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 41836
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Cjay »

Kennyb41 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:50 am And please don't forget Cjay is very much an 'hindsight man' everything seems to be shouted from the rooftops in that wonderful thing called 'hindsight'

We ALL know now that in 'hindsight' that team was wrong the other night, but what if fcking pillock brains puts the penalty away and we go on to get another and win 0-2 ? He's then a feckin genius who called it spot on.

So there's an argument that he got it right but dickhead let him down.

But i see the game overall and we didn't look right, now did Anthony come up against a baller that was just too good for him ? I'd have to go over that again the next day, the same with a good few other situations, re run it and get the players in one at a time, to point out what they did wrong or right.

Fine lines, and if bollocks scores the penalty we probably win, but even if we did win 0-1 he should still have learned something.
You love to parrot this line Kenneth but you can check my 1st post on this thread about Farke.

Or perhaps this one from before you were a twinkle in this forums eye in 2021
Cjay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:06 pm Disagree mate.

In his 1st season Norwich finished 14th.

He has had a budget but they posted a £40mil loss when they were promoted which adjusted for covid probably wouldn't be a million miles from the loss we posted.

Has done a very good job but his team has been carried by Buendia and Pukki. They exceeded their xG by a mile when promoted (doing it again this season).

That suggests to me a couple of outstanding individuals rather than an outstanding team.
If it makes you feel better keep with the hindsight stuff but I've shown you to be wrong on this numerous times
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
User avatar
malcolmw
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 3722
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:20 am
Location: Qualicum Beach, BC, Canada

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by malcolmw »

DF is our 16th manager in 10 years. That cannot possibly lead to sustained success. (Brighton, for comparison, have had 6 in that time).

I dont buy this stuff that if you don't get promoted the club is in financial ruin. Nonsense.
What does far more harm is creating "lumpy revenues" - your budget goes down when you get relegated, so you cut costs (including ridiculous clauses in player contracts). Then you get promoted and you splurge (because you're out of your league, you have more crazy player contract terms just to try to afford a PL squad). You don't have a real plan, so you go down 2 years later.

Now you have all that added cost on your financial statements. so you panic and cut cost in - often - the wrong places.
And so the cycle continues. Per my quote above - short term thinking, and 15 years later, we're still wallowing.

I am hoping the 49ers - who are a massive organization, not 2-bit entrepreneurs like our last 2 or 3 or 4 owners who had no cashflow - have budgetted for a couple of years in the red. They bought us dripping blood, so that gives me some confidence.

We will make the playoffs at least this season. Getting rid of DF in the next 20 months - unless he radicallly screws up - would be foolish.

Just like it would've been foolish to fire Marcelo after his first season.

I know cjay has never liked him and is desperate to be proven right. I won't jump on that bandwagon until it's patently obvious he is not for us.
User avatar
AcrossThePondAsh
Manager
Manager
Posts: 4931
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:03 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mtns, NC, USA

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by AcrossThePondAsh »

malcolmw wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:21 am DF is our 16th manager in 10 years. That cannot possibly lead to sustained success. (Brighton, for comparison, have had 6 in that time).

I dont buy this stuff that if you don't get promoted the club is in financial ruin. Nonsense.
What does far more harm is creating "lumpy revenues" - your budget goes down when you get relegated, so you cut costs (including ridiculous clauses in player contracts). Then you get promoted and you splurge (because you're out of your league, you have more crazy player contract terms just to try to afford a PL squad). You don't have a real plan, so you go down 2 years later.

Now you have all that added cost on your financial statements. so you panic and cut cost in - often - the wrong places.
And so the cycle continues. Per my quote above - short term thinking, and 15 years later, we're still wallowing.

I am hoping the 49ers - who are a massive organization, not 2-bit entrepreneurs like our last 2 or 3 or 4 owners who had no cashflow - have budgetted for a couple of years in the red. They bought us dripping blood, so that gives me some confidence.

We will make the playoffs at least this season. Getting rid of DF in the next 20 months - unless he radicallly screws up - would be foolish.

Just like it would've been foolish to fire Marcelo after his first season.

I know cjay has never liked him and is desperate to be proven right. I won't jump on that bandwagon until it's patently obvious he is not for us.
Feel the same about the 49ers and Farke, Malcolm. I can see, and understand, where some fans are coming from. Can't help but have worries and some doubts, but I don't think there's a need to panic just yet, especially as I think the 49ers are definitely looking longer term. They're in the money-making business, and if for no other reason than that, they'll invest. I think, for example, this January’s window might be able to serve as another effective marker for their longer-term planning (with the caveat that they can’t control if other teams or players reject offers). More specifically, they’ll have had a chance to actually have the right pieces in place (like a manager, etc.) ahead of time in order to make the most of what the window offers. They’ll also have a chance to flex their financial muscle to hold on to our more talented players as needed. Honestly, to me, it’s exciting to have hopefully turned the page on what seemed to be, in many instances, shorter-term thinking with previous owners and staff. Hope the niners prove me right on that front.

I also think you made a great point in your earlier post about our performances being indicative of our current instability—seems to easily explain why we can have a great match, followed by one that leaves fans scratching their heads. You're right - DF inherited a mess, the 49ers did too. Let's give them some time to steady the ship before we start abandoning it.
User avatar
billysboots
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 1496
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 7:29 am
Location: N.Ireland

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by billysboots »

We need a coach to steady the ship and get us promoted this season or next if possible, and then be able compete in the Premier League as a bottom half team.
A top 6 finish is very doable this season, DF looks like the man for the job for the next 3/4 years.
There Is Only One United.
User avatar
Madron
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3673
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:46 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Madron »

Not sure I'd fancy our chances getting promoted next season, if we are still in the Championship.
Can;t see how we could possibly be in a similar/better position.
User avatar
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 41836
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Daniel Farke

Post by Cjay »

Happy Birthday Boss.

Same day as Jimmy.
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
User avatar
GreennWhite
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 3366
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:02 am

Re: Daniel Farke- Happy Birthday

Post by GreennWhite »

I wonder did they exchange cards, and give each other presents :bckake: :gift:
Post Reply