Leeds Utd v Middlesbrough Match Thread - Farke Names Unchanged Line-up

[weasel]

2nd coming of Jurgen Klopp.

Happy?

But if you really think we battered Boro etc and they didn't look a well coached team that lacks quality (and is injury ravaged incidentally) then you aren't the football oracle you've claimed.

We didn't.

Incidentally aren't you going to go shout at Leon? His comments hardly reflected yours about Boro.

I felt we generally battered Boro. Sure they missed chances but we missed more. Their goals also had a huge element of luck, first one the keeper should be saving and second one the cross landed absolutely perfect, a couple of inches lower Byram heads it away, a couple of inches higher and the striker misses it. Even then it glanced perfectly to go in the far corner - you could say it was a quality ball in and quality finish but given their lad's previous header I would say it was a lucky finish.

Farke's side reminds me very much of Keegan's Newcastle side. They won promotion playing an attacking style and sure they had defensive problems but you always will when you are so committed to attacking - note both our headed goals saw a fullback crossing the ball to a winger who was allowed to get into a striker position. Keegan then strenghtened when they got promoted and gambled that they could outscore teams and to be fair if they had have had Schmeichel in net for them they would have won the league at a canter. If we go up they key is to strengthen. We failed at that last time in that we signed Koch and Llorente who weren't as good as Ben White had been, Rodrigo who couldn't oust Bamford, no midfielders and the only success in the first season was Raphinha. Second season similar and third season the same. We went up and arguably weakened the side.

Farke showed with Norwich that playing his way works in this division. Whether Leicester, Ipswich and Southampton are stronger than what he faced with Norwich is debateable and whether we are better or worse than his Norwich side is equally debateable. What isn't really debateable is that he wasn't given much chance in the prem by the Norwich owners who gave him very little to spend, including selling Buendia the second time he got promoted. Hopefully if we get up our owners will back him and also allow him to have a big say in who we bring in. I think he has shown a decent understanding of what we needed this season in the transfer market.

[DDB220]

Tactically we play a possession based game, more so at home. Sideways and backwards trying to create an opening by pulling the opposition about. Pretty much like Man City do. We are not the only team trying to play this way.

At this level we are doing OK - for me the problem we have is injecting pace into our passing. We tend to do this when the ball reaches one of our top 3 (not Piroe) when they are in space with an opportunity to break the oppositions defensive lines.
It has therefore an element of predictability, the unpredictability comes when those three get the ball in some space. This is why we can sometimes struggle against teams that sit deep or are very positionally disciplined.

So back to the injection of pace. What we lack is a central midfielder who can do this to change our predictability. This is why you will see Summerville and Rutter dropping deep. Partly frustration and no doubt to mix things up.
Ampadu tries to inject pace on occasion but it is not his game. Kamara is also steady and has some good moments but he is not going to take the ball on the half turn and initiate an injection of pace.

Personally when the crowd get slightly frustrated and either Summerville or Rutter drop deep this can work against us. Summerville collecting the ball with his back to the opposition goal is not really much of a threat and he quickly gets hounded. It has cost us in the past and he had a similar moment today but managed to ride a few challenges and off load the ball.

I do not mind this patient build up, the issue with it is when we need a goal it can quickly unravel and get messy when someone other than the front 3 tries to do something incisive and lose the ball in a dangerous position.

The answer to this for some games now that we have Spence back is Archie, because he can take the ball on the half turn for fun. He should play alongside Ampadu in the middle when Spence is ready to go, for me this is our best line up.
I also prefer Gnonto to James against a low block, however James is hard to shift ATM as he is in a rich vein of form.

[The Subhuman]

My avatar? No, it's a painting done by a friend.

I assumed it was another singer/songwriter/guitarist I didn't recognize ... I guess it is though then..... It's good. Very good

[The Subhuman]

Oh do shut up .

Read the comments from other people rather than your weird obsession with me.

We're both in the same boat....

[The Subhuman]

Does anyone think we can get auto promotion?
To be fair at the start of the season with the chaos i didn't think we'd even get in a play off spot.

Farke has done an amazing job.

Can we snatch auto?

Yes, the fact we can was never in doubt. It's perm 2 from 4 atm... think it's likely to stay that way.

[Kennyb41]

We are quite simply still a work in progress, i'm under no illusion of where we currently stand in terms of holding our own in the Prem.

We are still short.

But like Sara says, 1 step at a bloody time, let's deal with the task in hand the best way we can with what we've been left with.

Byram's been a revelation ffs, why do we want to go looking for any faults in him when he's building up credit in the bank like he has and is doing, just take a damn good look at that play from him to create the cross from the byline and then to actually cross it. If that was Trippier or Walker we'd be doing handstands.

I've no doubt some fecker will come out on his first mistake with 'he isn't a specialist LB' .......well so fecking what !..He's playing out of his skin in the main fer Christs sake.

Who knows, DF might've learned a lot from his Prem years, I don't know what Norwich did to help him if anything at all, he might be thnking "if i get Leeds up, i ain't trying that again there, that Prems just too good, and too fast"

We just don't know, but what i do know, is we need to add some quality, so let DF and the new DOF try and see what they can come up with.

If you handed this squad of players to Pep atm i bet he'd struggle ffs.

[Kennyb41]

Tactically we play a possession based game, more so at home. Sideways and backwards trying to create an opening by pulling the opposition about. Pretty much like Man City do. We are not the only team trying to play this way.

At this level we are doing OK - for me the problem we have is injecting pace into our passing. We tend to do this when the ball reaches one of our top 3 (not Piroe) when they are in space with an opportunity to break the oppositions defensive lines.
It has therefore an element of predictability, the unpredictability comes when those three get the ball in some space. This is why we can sometimes struggle against teams that sit deep or are very positionally disciplined.

So back to the injection of pace. What we lack is a central midfielder who can do this to change our predictability. This is why you will see Summerville and Rutter dropping deep. Partly frustration and no doubt to mix things up.
Ampadu tries to inject pace on occasion but it is not his game. Kamara is also steady and has some good moments but he is not going to take the ball on the half turn and initiate an injection of pace.

Personally when the crowd get slightly frustrated and either Summerville or Rutter drop deep this can work against us. Summerville collecting the ball with his back to the opposition goal is not really much of a threat and he quickly gets hounded. It has cost us in the past and he had a similar moment today but managed to ride a few challenges and off load the ball.

I do not mind this patient build up, the issue with it is when we need a goal it can quickly unravel and get messy when someone other than the front 3 tries to do something incisive and lose the ball in a dangerous position.

The answer to this for some games now that we have Spence back is Archie, because he can take the ball on the half turn for fun. He should play alongside Ampadu in the middle when Spence is ready to go, for me this is our best line up.
I also prefer Gnonto to James against a low block, however James is hard to shift ATM as he is in a rich vein of form.

I've been noticing that myself of late, and it seems to be a bit of of an achilles heel of our own making, we are better when we move the ball faster forward and draw a lot of fouls etc, whilst also opening gaps, we then let the oppo's get back into some sort of shape when we knock it about instead of continuing for the jugular.
It could be instructions who knows, but yes, it is part of the modern game now, but we are Leeds, and we don't do things easy, it always seems to create 'squeaky feckin bum time'.

[weasel]

We are quite simply still a work in progress, i'm under no illusion of where we currently stand in terms of holding our own in the Prem.

We are still short.

But like Sara says, 1 step at a bloody time, let's deal with the task in hand the best way we can with what we've been left with.

Byram's been a revelation ffs, why do we want to go looking for any faults in him when he's building up credit in the bank like he has and is doing, just take a damn good look at that play from him to create the cross from the byline and then to actually cross it. If that was Trippier or Walker we'd be doing handstands.

I've no doubt some fecker will come out on his first mistake with 'he isn't a specialist LB' .......well so fecking what !..He's playing out of his skin in the main fer Christs sake.

Who knows, DF might've learned a lot from his Prem years, I don't know what Norwich did to help him if anything at all, he might be thnking "if i get Leeds up, i ain't trying that again there, that Prems just too good, and too fast"

We just don't know, but what i do know, is we need to add some quality, so let DF and the new DOF try and see what they can come up with.

If you handed this squad of players to Pep atm i bet he'd struggle ffs.

Not a bad left footed cross from a right footed player......

[Kennyb41]

Does anyone think we can get auto promotion?
To be fair at the start of the season with the chaos i didn't think we'd even get in a play off spot.

Farke has done an amazing job.

Can we snatch auto?

Of course we can Brad, but this next 8 game period is vital till Jan 1st (7 now)

We need some good fortune re injuries, we just need to keep concentrating on the next 3pts and hope Ipswich fck up, go take a look at the fixtures of all the top bunch.

If Df rotates the odd one cleverly whilst maintaining the most of this best 11 he's found, we can beat anyone.
We have no idea what Darlow will be like fitting in with his feet if Mes is crocked, things like that are vital, a injury to Rodon will be very hard to manage if it's combined with a couple more.

He got some great balance throughout the team atm, he's got players enjoying themselves and getting to know one another, our bench is strong for a Championship side where substitutions are concerned.

Let's keep our fingers an tootsies crossed

[Cjay]

I felt we generally battered Boro. Sure they missed chances but we missed more. Their goals also had a huge element of luck, first one the keeper should be saving and second one the cross landed absolutely perfect, a couple of inches lower Byram heads it away, a couple of inches higher and the striker misses it. Even then it glanced perfectly to go in the far corner - you could say it was a quality ball in and quality finish but given their lad's previous header I would say it was a lucky finish.

Farke's side reminds me very much of Keegan's Newcastle side. They won promotion playing an attacking style and sure they had defensive problems but you always will when you are so committed to attacking - note both our headed goals saw a fullback crossing the ball to a winger who was allowed to get into a striker position. Keegan then strenghtened when they got promoted and gambled that they could outscore teams and to be fair if they had have had Schmeichel in net for them they would have won the league at a canter. If we go up they key is to strengthen. We failed at that last time in that we signed Koch and Llorente who weren't as good as Ben White had been, Rodrigo who couldn't oust Bamford, no midfielders and the only success in the first season was Raphinha. Second season similar and third season the same. We went up and arguably weakened the side.

Farke showed with Norwich that playing his way works in this division. Whether Leicester, Ipswich and Southampton are stronger than what he faced with Norwich is debateable and whether we are better or worse than his Norwich side is equally debateable. What isn't really debateable is that he wasn't given much chance in the prem by the Norwich owners who gave him very little to spend, including selling Buendia the second time he got promoted. Hopefully if we get up our owners will back him and also allow him to have a big say in who we bring in. I think he has shown a decent understanding of what we needed this season in the transfer market.

I think battered is a bit much.

Especially 1st half they got at our defence very easily at times and with a better ball or decision they would have had a chance or a shot.

I thought Boro passed out of our press at times very easily and got at our defence quite well, the striker Latte could have easily have had 3 or 4 goals 1st half.

And they did this with 6 or 7 first team players out.

I think today especially having better players was key for us.

We had chances as well absolutely and did we maybe edge it? Very possibly, but for me it was one of our poorer performances with the 1st half in particular able to go either way.

On the bigger picture is Farke going to work if we get promoted? I have my doubts tactically.

Was he short changed by the Norwich owners? Absolutely.

But he isn't the first manager to have a small budget and plenty have done far more and better.

Elements of the style are fun at times but I do still feel it is very reliant on talented individuals a bit more than I would like and is a key reason he hasn't done much at all in better leagues.

Maybe the 49ers will back him well if promoted and he can show he is a top level coach.

Hopefully so.

This December will tell us a lot about how this season will go imo.

Today was the start of a tough run.

We got the points which is what matters end of the day.

But I did feel today was closer to Ipswich where it could have gone either way at times as opposed to Leicester which I felt was Farke's best performance as a coach for us and he got it spot on.

[Barlow Boy]

Of course we can Brad, but this next 8 game period is vital till Jan 1st (7 now)

We need some good fortune re injuries, we just need to keep concentrating on the next 3pts and hope Ipswich fck up, go take a look at the fixtures of all the top bunch.

If Df rotates the odd one cleverly whilst maintaining the most of this best 11 he's found, we can beat anyone.
We have no idea what Darlow will be like fitting in with his feet if Mes is crocked, things like that are vital, a injury to Rodon will be very hard to manage if it's combined with a couple more.

He got some great balance throughout the team atm, he's got players enjoying themselves and getting to know one another, our bench is strong for a Championship side where substitutions are concerned.

Let's keep our fingers an tootsies crossed

Myself and Mr 64 were watching the players warming up today, and Darlow was putting in some crosses, obviously for Meslier. He was then receiving the ball to put in another cross etc.

That lad can kick and control a ball, no problem. Yes, there’s no pressure, and it’s only a warm up, but I’d have no worries on his footwork if he was to play.

[Kennyb41]

I'm sure the Boro fans forum commented they're not missing any of the injured players and are actually performing better without.

[Boo Radley]

Our potential problem was always going to be injuries and/or having to overplay players

I think we suffered a bit today from the 8 games in a week.

Should be better next game after a week off.

This could become a problem with the intense schedule we've ahead. It raises the question as to why Farke doesn't at least introduce subs earlier in the games. I think Farke is right in starting our best side but you can see players flagging around the 70th minute, or even earlier, but no subs seem to considered this early.

If we didn't have the options on the bench, like last year, you'd say something but that's clearly not the case.

Spence in earlier for Gray is an obvious one to spare the young lad.

[Irish Ian]

I thought we got lucky today.

Both headed goals were deflected towards the scorers, and the pen and sending off were gifts.

However 7 out of 9 points isn't a poor return from a busy week.

[Kennyb41]

Myself and Mr 64 were watching the players warming up today, and Darlow was putting in some crosses, obviously for Meslier. He was then receiving the ball to put in another cross etc.

That lad can kick and control a ball, no problem. Yes, there’s no pressure, and it’s only a warm up, but I’d have no worries on his footwork if he was to play.

Things like that are good to know Sid, it's a welcome comment, i knew naff bart him kicking with his feet, any way hopefully we don't have to find out.

I wish every single team we play from now on would come out and play at us how Swansea and Boro have just tried, we could easily have had 6 against each, and conceded 2 or 3 tops.

My biggest gripe is he's fcking it up when the oppo's just say " go on Leeds have it, we'll just re group"

[Barlow Boy]

This could become a problem with the intense schedule we've ahead. It raises the question as to why Farke doesn't at least introduce subs earlier in the games. I think Farke is right in starting our best side but you can see players flagging around the 70th minute, or even earlier, but no subs seem to considered this early.

If we didn't have the options on the bench, like last year, you'd say something but that's clearly not the case.

Spence in earlier for Gray is an obvious one to spare the young lad.

The fella who stands behind me at games goes on about this all the time, and I mean all the time.

[Kennyb41]

This could become a problem with the intense schedule we've ahead. It raises the question as to why Farke doesn't at least introduce subs earlier in the games. I think Farke is right in starting our best side but you can see players flagging around the 70th minute, or even earlier, but no subs seem to considered this early.

If we didn't have the options on the bench, like last year, you'd say something but that's clearly not the case.

Spence in earlier for Gray is an obvious one to spare the young lad.

It depends what sort of time you've got in mind Boo, these games like today and Swansea are quite easily turned with the wrong sub.

[Kennyb41]

I thought we got lucky today.

Both headed goals were deflected towards the scorers, and the pen and sending off were gifts.

However 7 out of 9 points isn't a poor return from a busy week.

I thought the same with Grays cross, it needs that kind deflection to fall on Jimmys head.

Them hitting the post was lucky anorl.

But looking at the play overall, we were well better than them for the most part and deserved the win.

Try watching a replay and perhaps watch it as a Boro fan.

Reet, i'm going lookin what their fans have to say anyhoos.

[Jaydog]

I think Boro’s post hitter was deflected. Might be wrong but if so then it’s not unlucky at all.

[Cjay]

I think Ipswich will fade second half of the season..

Possibly, but not so sure, the points total they have managed isn't just phenomenal for a newly promoted team it's pretty a league record.

And they are playing very decent stuff

Only thing that I think may catch up with them is the concede a lot.

They are actually a better version it seems points total wise than Farke's first promoted Norwich side.

They were like that.