Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

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Preston North End v Leeds United
Preston North End
Preston North End
2–1
Championship
26/12/2023
Deepdale
Leeds United
Leeds United
All-time record vs Preston North End
65
Played
24
Won
15
Drawn
26
Lost
-7
GD
37%
Win %
Away record
31
Played
8
Won
8
Drawn
15
Lost
-20
GD
26%
Win %
DateGroundScoreCompetition
26/12/2019 Elland Road 1–1 D Championship
22/10/2019 Deepdale 1–1 D Championship
09/04/2019 Deepdale 0–2 W Championship
18/09/2018 Elland Road 3–0 W Championship
28/08/2018 Elland Road 0–2 L Carabao Cup 2nd Round
All-time top scorers vs Preston North End
#PlayerGoals
1 David Healy 4
2 Kemar Roofe 3
3 Harry Duggan 3
4 Hugh Baird 3
5 Dennis Grainger 2
Starting XI
Substitutes
29 Gnonto
44 Gruev
26 Darlow
49 Joseph
Unused Substitutes
3 Firpo
6 Cooper
12 Anthony
25 Byram
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Cjay
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

It's boxing day so don't want to have an argument :)

But I think when you look at it logically it's pretty clear the style is very reliant on individuals if you haven't the coaching quality to do it with repetitive coaching and tactics.

As Ian said sitting back and packing the midfield is common all over the world vs teams with better quality.

The teams that face it pass around slowly then switch it up with fast 1 touch passing clearly really worked on on the training ground (we did it under Bielsa).

If that doesn't work it tends to need a Pablo or a Buendia or a De Bruyne to find the eye of the needle pass.

We don't seem to have any well coached quick passing moves and rely on Summerville beating a man (very difficult in a packed midfield) or Rutter doing similar or both of them working together.

Teams have worked out how to shut that down or atleast make it very difficult.

At this point a manager should find other solutions.

Go longer (even Man City do) or positional rotation or move the ball faster or shuffle to one side of the pitch and look for a quick switch, anything to disrupt the shape of the opposition.

We don't do this and it makes us easy and predictable.

And that is on Farke, it is his job to find a solution.

Once, twice, three times you can be caught out.

This is 5,6,7,8 and we look as Clueless now as we did the first time.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by SG90 »

DDB220 wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:56 pm Which u23 ?

There will be changes for the next game. The lethargy from the team was apparent from the off. PNE were up for this and imposed their physicality .

I do not disagree with CJAY that we can be rather predictable in terms of playing down the flanks and if the opposition restrict space we huff and puff. This is because we have very little offensive threat through the middle. I have no doubt Farke would prefer a Buendia type player in the middle who can dictate play. However he hasn’t got one so you use what you have.

Still a few players light for consistency, what is available in the next window is anyone’s guess.
As usual we have to wait until we lose to see some changes. Saturday took a lot out physically and emotionally, so no surprises we were flat today, with little turnaround. Plus the likes of Gray, James and Kamara have needed a rest for a long time. Reminds of me Bielsa thinking we never needed to rest players when they were clearly shot. He's just being stubborn.

U23s Luca Thomas, Sean McGurk and Connor Douglas are 3 that spring to mind. What's the point of having players like Poveda and Firpo on the bench instead?

January won't be anything other than a loan or 2. Too many pinning all their hopes on it.
Last edited by SG90 on Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by JoeDenver »

Johnthewhite wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:56 pm Never said it was a one off, it's a problem we have (I agree) but sacking DF is NOT going to fix it.
I’m fully convinced that the 49ers will sack him and find a better coach (Potter, perhaps) if he doesn’t solve this glaring problem. They aren’t putting in all this effort for a playoff spot.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

JoeDenver wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:55 pm This tactic is getting old and the lack of proactivity to address it is killing us. I think the criticism of anyone criticizing Farke is unfair as they are pointing out obvious flaws that aren’t getting addressed and we are dropping unnecessary points because of it…making the possibility of promotion all the more difficult.

Frankly, the lack of criticism of Farke’s stubbornness regarding squad rotation/tactics and in-game substitutions is concerning.
I think he benefits from the mess of last season in the sense it was such a mess fans just wanted someone vaguely sane to cling on to.

Had Farke came after Bielsa for example he would be getting a lot more criticism.

He is benefitting from not being Jesse Marsch.

But he is as reliant on individuals as Marsch was, just as tactically poor and a better talker than manager.
Last edited by Cjay on Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by DDB220 »

JoeDenver wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:55 pm This tactic is getting old and the lack of proactivity to address it is killing us. I think the criticism of anyone criticizing Farke is unfair as they are pointing out obvious flaws that aren’t getting addressed and we are dropping unnecessary points because of it…making the possibility of promotion all the more difficult.

Frankly, the lack of criticism of Farke’s stubbornness regarding squad rotation/tactics and in-game substitutions is concerning.
Everyone is aware of where the problems are. It is not the criticism of Farke that bothers me. He was never my choice and I never gushed over him and placed an “In Farke we trust” statement at the bottom of every post.
But I think he has done OK all things considered. Better than I thought he would if I am been entirely honest.
The team he has created lacks consistency he needs to find the answer.
The problems I perceive with the set up are not solvable with what he currently has at his disposal unless he changes formation. At just under two PPG and at this stage of the season it would take a very brave decision to do so.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by Johnthewhite »

JoeDenver wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:05 pm I’m fully convinced that the 49ers will sack him and find a better coach (Potter, perhaps) if he doesn’t solve this glaring problem. They aren’t putting in all this effort for a playoff spot.
I hope not as that will begin a whole new cycle of upheaval.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by Scoobychief »

We're gonna see what f**king money those 49ers have this January.. see what dross comes back and what we can offload like a load of s**t... need quality wish I could sing that to the rest of you dump ass
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

JoeDenver wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:05 pm I’m fully convinced that the 49ers will sack him and find a better coach (Potter, perhaps) if he doesn’t solve this glaring problem. They aren’t putting in all this effort for a playoff spot.
They won't be happy.

They need a Premier League club.

They have given Farke an extremely large budget and a below average ppg for top 2 won't have been the plan.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by SG90 »

JoeDenver wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:05 pm I’m fully convinced that the 49ers will sack him and find a better coach (Potter, perhaps) if he doesn’t solve this glaring problem. They aren’t putting in all this effort for a playoff spot.
Agree, the 49ers aren't Radz with a loser mentality. They will want to win and didn't spend £160m to remain in the Championship.

The club needs a complete 360 and build a winning mentality, drop the woe is me atmosphere the previous owners built.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by whiteswan »

Cjay wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:45 pm Not the same thing again and again and again which multiple teams have been able to stop?
So what would your team have been and what subs and when. I'm not having a go Cjay, you know me better than that, but for folk to be constantly whining and not give alternative solutions grates a tad.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by 1964white »

John in Louisiana wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:31 pm Incredibly disappointing.

Rutter must be unbelievably frustrated. He worked so hard all day long.
Only forward who showed some quality.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by whiteswan »

SG90 wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:41 pm Unfortunately some are happy with us constantly throwing away points. :(
Not happy at all SG. But what is the solution I keep asking but no one can give an answer with the squad we have.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by 1964white »

The Subhuman wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:29 pm I've missed the last 4 min but I thought he was doing ok. Did he miss an open goal or something?
Not his fault, out of his depth imo, his touch is poor & runs around like a headless chicken.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by Chilli D »

I didn't see the game but from what I've read it wasn't good.
I have to say, I don't think we will make the top 2 now unless Ipswich capitulate, we're far too inconsistent.
But I live in hope
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by SG90 »

whiteswan wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:18 pm Not happy at all SG. But what is the solution I keep asking but no one can give an answer with the squad we have.
I have given suggestions. I said at HT James and Gray were the weak link today, and sub those two off. As usual, Farke waits too long to make any subs. Anthony and Gnonto need to be used more, especially as James is shot and Summerville needs protecting. Said as well that Gray and Kamara have needed a rest for a long time. Gelhardt should be on the bench instead of the likes of Ayling, Cooper, Bamford, Firpo and Poveda, who offer nothing. I'd like to see an u23 such as Thomas, Douglas or McGurk on the bench as well, but Farke doesn't seem to like young players.

This isn't an overreaction to one defeat either, it's been coming a long time.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by whiteswan »

SG90 wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:23 pm I have given suggestions. I said at HT James and Gray were the weak link today, and sub those two off. As usual, Farke waits too long to make any subs. Anthony and Gnonto need to be used more, especially as James is shot and Summerville needs protecting. Said as well that Gray and Kamara have needed a rest for a long time. Gelhardt should be on the bench instead of the likes of Ayling, Cooper, Bamford, Firpo and Poveda, who offer nothing. I'd like to see an u23 such as Thomas, Douglas or McGurk on the bench as well, but Farke doesn't seem to like young players.

This isn't an overreaction to one defeat either, it's been coming a long time.
Very good points. Let's see what happens on Friday v baggies
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

whiteswan wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:13 pm So what would your team have been and what subs and when. I'm not having a go Cjay, you know me better than that, but for folk to be constantly whining and not give alternative solutions grates a tad.
I often give my ideas lol.

I'd have started Gnonto for one, James vs a deep block is largely useless as his pace can't be as effective, Gnonto is a better dribbler.

I'd have switched Gray and Spence earlier on 1st half because it was obvious Preston were targeting him and deliberately keeping play on the opposite side to Spence and Summerville. Gray was struggling same as vs Sunderland and Farke did nothing to help him and has even blamed him in the press conference.

As we all keep saying I'd have ordered Piroe to play up front and Rutter to drop deep and rotate position with Summerville to make them harder to track.

I'd have tried to pull Preston to our right and focused the attack down our weaker side whilst asking Summerville or Rutter to play very tight to the left touchline and stretch the pitch with the other asked to remain central.

Then used sporadic switches of play or quick passing to get the ball left as fast as possible to hopefully get Summerville or Rutter isolated 1v1 whilst the other would by now be fairly close for support.

This tactic we keep facing and struggling with is very common, it isn't some mythical genius tactic.

Ways exist to counter it, what doesn't work is what Farke does, messing about with meaningless passes between the back 4 for 15 minutes at a time then a pass into Summerville or Rutter who are totally surrounded in a packed midfield
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by whiteswan »

Meslier didn't help of course
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by SG90 »

Also you don't need to play two holding midfielders against the low block. Either play Gray in midfield, switch Rutter and Piroe, or promote an u23 for a game or two.
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Re: Preston North End v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by whiteswan »

Cjay wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 3:28 pm I often give my ideas lol.

I'd have started Gnonto for one, James vs a deep block is largely useless as his pace can't be as effective, Gnonto is a better dribbler.

I'd have switched Gray and Spence earlier on 1st half because it was obvious Preston were targeting him and deliberately keeping play on the opposite side to Spence and Summerville. Gray was struggling same as vs Sunderland and Farke did nothing to help him and has even blamed him in the press conference.

As we all keep saying I'd have ordered Piroe to play up front and Rutter to drop deep and rotate position with Summerville to make them harder to track.

I'd have tried to pull Preston to our right and focused the attack down our weaker side whilst asking Summerville or Rutter to play very tight to the left touchline and stretch the pitch with the other asked to remain central.

Then used sporadic switches of play or quick passing to get the ball left as fast as possible to hopefully get Summerville or Rutter isolated 1v1 whilst the other would by now be fairly close for support.

This tactic we keep facing and struggling with is very common, it isn't some mythical genius tactic.

Ways exist to counter it, what doesn't work is what Farke does, messing about with meaningless passes between the back 4 for 15 minutes at a time then a pass into Summerville or Rutter who are totally surrounded in a packed midfield
I guess everyone has their own ideas Cjay....don't get me wrong I'm not happy with our losses either but can't do owt about it so I try and stay cool calm and collected. I'm hoping the 49ers are watching and act accordingly regarding players.
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