Leeds Utd v Birmingham City Match Thread

[The Subhuman]

Firpo's always been decent going forward, he just can't defend. Mind you, neither can TAA and he's "world class" supposedly.

The nature of a wing back, in todays game.

[Cjay]

Have you started backtracking yet as per

I never backtrack

Like your hindsight accusations you won't find a single post of me backtracking

If I'm wrong I'm wrong and say so, but I've never backtracked and pretended I didn't say what I said

Amazing what happens when you give players more than 10 minutes and play people in the correct role isn't it (admittedly after a poor half hour and against a very shite side).

But happy Cjay

[Cjay]

He's right though ..

Not really . . . . .

2 of those teams are still above us.

Farke wasn't being criticised based on 1 game

Beating Birmingham was expected and is nice but its about what happens now.

Has he learned lessons? Will Rutter remain at 10? For example.

That's what matters long term.

[weasel]

It's easy.

Get another LB, sell Gnonto and play Firpo on the wing - sorted

No real evidence to suggest Firpo could get the ball and take a man on like a winger has to do? As the attacking full back you can get into good attacking positions without having to take on an opponent, especially if they are marking the winger.

[Cjay]

It's easy.

Get another LB, sell Gnonto and play Firpo on the wing - sorted

Tbf Firpo made his name as an attacking wing back.

If he could attack all game he'd be fine at this level

[weasel]

Some good performances and some good stuff. Should have scored a bucket load in reality.

Putting this game into perspective - Birmingham are shite. So as a sample size where certain fringe players are being feted it is not a realistic game to draw any real conclusions, but plenty of positives. Geo great creativity and he showed the maturity at 10 that was required. He wasn’t attempting a trick every time in possession which illustrates he has the game management necessary to control play.

A much needed win, clean sheet and lots of minutes for squad players.

I notice the WTF post when Cooper puts it out, without eyes in the back of his head or a call from the keeper he did the right thing.

Well said. Different matches and different opposition. I thought Bamford did okay but if he'd not scored no doubt he would have got the usual abuse. It was easy to see why Birmingham have done so poorly but also shows that any team in the championsip can beat any other team, They didn't turn up and roll over and if they scored one of their chances at 2-0 it could have been a different story.

Cooper did the right thing, like you say without a call he doesn't know there is nobody behind him waiting to tap it in.

[The Subhuman]

Not really . . . . .

2 of those teams are still above us.

Farke wasn't being criticised based on 1 game

His point is correct

[Cjay]

His point is correct

What that sometimes freak results happen?

Sure

But a pattern of 5,6,7 games isn't a freak result.

And we lost to Preston who lost next game to Wendies.

WBA lost to 16th place Swansea.

You could turn the point totally around.

[Sean_Nile]

Having pink boots made it easy to spot him jogging back when caught out upfield.
At one time he made a half heart sprint back, then realised he was not going to make
it or noticed Coops had the situation covered, and he came to a stand still.

Not the commitment that anybody wants to see

[weasel]

That's the best game i've seen Firpo play for Leeds, not defensively though, but in his defense, that was in the main coz he got forward.

And a good manager organises tactics to get the best out of what he has. Spence, Gray, Firpo, Ayling etc all better going forward so you set up the tactics to allow them to play to their strengths. They bomb forward and at times will be woefully out of position which is why you then have Ampadu as a very defensive midfielder. So the manager papers over the cracks as he only has one full back, Byram, who is just as good defensively as he is going forward. We don't have the superb team or squad that many fans seem to think we have (the same fans who slagged off all the players in the summer and were expecting us to struggle) but we do have a manager who plays a way to get the best out of the players. I haven't lost faith in the manager but have doubts over some of the players.

Also interesting to see all the fans crowing about Rutter's performance in the no.10 role today. I thought he had a good game but if I wasn't aware that he was playing as a 10 instead of a 9, I wouldn't have noticed any difference to how he has played all season or what positions he was dropping into. Rutter played exactly the same as he has played all season, he drops deep when he wants, he picks the ball up in midfield or even at full back when he wants and he links the play up. He doesn't play as a 'traditional' number 9 whether he is playing as a 9 or a 10.

[John in Louisiana]

FT Stats

xG*
Leeds: 1.28
BCFC: 0.68

Possession
Leeds: 64%
BCFC: 36%

Shots
Leeds: 21 total = 11 on target, 5 off target, & 5 blocked
BCFC: 8 total = 1 on target, 5 off target, & 2 blocked

*Expected goals (xG) measures the quality of a chance by calculating the likelihood that it will be scored from a particular position on the pitch during a particular phase of play.

Have to wonder how their XG was nearly 0.7 with only one shot on target and ours was not even 1.3 with eleven. "Calculating the likelihood" isn't really a calculation at all; it has to be a subjective measure.

[weasel]

Bit of both for me. They were devoid of confidence and they had a few players hiding. Rooney will need a massive turn of fortune to keep his job.ironically for me - Roberts looked like their most positive player when he came on.

They were similar to a lot of teams we have played. They hung in against us while we huffed and puffed, didn't take many risks but then their game plan was fairly much over once we went in front. I would liken them to Stoke, Preston, WBA etc etc but those teams managed to score against us. I would say they were similarly poor when we played them first time around but were once again a team that hung on against us and then scored.

[The Subhuman]

Well, we don't need a ten ... unless it's to back up Geo. Not sure who starts at 9 now though, assumed a rest for Piroe but we'll see. I'd stick with KK for the final Meslier suspension over Darlow who has impressed. Lovely pass from KK to the right wing under pressure second half.. 2 nice saves and caught a ball!

Left back and CB if CC goes to Rangers?

[Sean_Nile]

Dan James thinks Patrick Bamford was brilliant today

[weasel]

What that sometimes freak results happen?

Sure

But a pattern of 5,6,7 games isn't a freak result.

And we lost to Preston who lost next game to Wendies.

WBA lost to 16th place Swansea.

You could turn the point totally around.

Do you not recall that remarkable stat that seemed to go on for a couple of years where every time a team beat Leeds they lost their next match? I do think a lot of teams and players see Leeds as their cup final and raise themselves but then go back to their usual standard the following week, Liam Millar a likely example from world beater to anonymous. I do think that Ipswich in particular have probably benefitted a lot this season from teams seeing them as a league 1 side and going at them but playing into their hands - they may find it tougher now as teams don't take them lightly any more.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

I don't think they were poor.

We were good.

We'll agree to disagree then. I'm sure your correct though.

[Cjay]

And a good manager organises tactics to get the best out of what he has. Spence, Gray, Firpo, Ayling etc all better going forward so you set up the tactics to allow them to play to their strengths. They bomb forward and at times will be woefully out of position which is why you then have Ampadu as a very defensive midfielder. So the manager papers over the cracks as he only has one full back, Byram, who is just as good defensively as he is going forward. We don't have the superb team or squad that many fans seem to think we have (the same fans who slagged off all the players in the summer and were expecting us to struggle) but we do have a manager who plays a way to get the best out of the players. I haven't lost faith in the manager but have doubts over some of the players.

Also interesting to see all the fans crowing about Rutter's performance in the no.10 role today. I thought he had a good game but if I wasn't aware that he was playing as a 10 instead of a 9, I wouldn't have noticed any difference to how he has played all season or what positions he was dropping into. Rutter played exactly the same as he has played all season, he drops deep when he wants, he picks the ball up in midfield or even at full back when he wants and he links the play up. He doesn't play as a 'traditional' number 9 whether he is playing as a 9 or a 10.

Farke has already said Rutter was playing a different role today.

It was noticeable.

Rutter isn't a striker as you say, Piroe is the more natural striker all be it nearer to a Rodrigo than a Drogba.

If Piroe is told to drop deep as he has been and Rutter drifts naturally then we have no striker to play off.

Bamford for all his faults will lead the line, stretch the play, leaving Rutter room to work. And dint forget Bamford wasn't like that when he arrived, he was a more Piroe type even playing as a 10 or wide right, Bielsa had to coach him to play that role as Farke should with Piroe

If Piroe and Rutter are dropping by design or by instinct then it's obvious the issues

The change was noticeable in the team dynamics imo and helped enormously.

Rutter also much happier coming deep to receive the ball.

[Kennyb41]

And a good manager organises tactics to get the best out of what he has. Spence, Gray, Firpo, Ayling etc all better going forward so you set up the tactics to allow them to play to their strengths. They bomb forward and at times will be woefully out of position which is why you then have Ampadu as a very defensive midfielder. So the manager papers over the cracks as he only has one full back, Byram, who is just as good defensively as he is going forward. We don't have the superb team or squad that many fans seem to think we have (the same fans who slagged off all the players in the summer and were expecting us to struggle) but we do have a manager who plays a way to get the best out of the players. I haven't lost faith in the manager but have doubts over some of the players.

Also interesting to see all the fans crowing about Rutter's performance in the no.10 role today. I thought he had a good game but if I wasn't aware that he was playing as a 10 instead of a 9, I wouldn't have noticed any difference to how he has played all season or what positions he was dropping into. Rutter played exactly the same as he has played all season, he drops deep when he wants, he picks the ball up in midfield or even at full back when he wants and he links the play up. He doesn't play as a 'traditional' number 9 whether he is playing as a 9 or a 10.

Oh the feckin 'Goonsquad' on here are today crowing that they were right about Rutter, they haven't a feckin clue, they think they've been right all along about switching Piroe/Rutter, they are just wayyyyyyyy too feckin gormless to see what actually happened today.

But the one and only Cjay should be along to explain it all.

Not.

Unless he scours the net that is, and finds someone that's picked up on it, then spews it out as his own.

Get him sacked i say, get him sacked, he doesn't stand loyal to his players to correct things when things are going awry

Would it be fair to say up until today we've been playing two 10 and 1/2's possibly two 9 and a 1/2s, have we indeed had a definite 9 or a definite 10 all season, Cjay will know - He's the guy that wanted to play Piroe at 9 on his jack, laughable

[weasel]

Farke has already said Rutter was playing a different role today.

It was noticeable.

Rutter isn't a striker as you say, Piroe is the more natural striker all be it nearer to a Rodrigo than a Drogba.

If Piroe is told to drop deep as he has been and Rutter drifts naturally then we have no striker to play off.

Bamford for all his faults will lead the line, stretch the play, leaving Rutter room to work.

If Piroe and Rutter are dropping by design or by instinct then it's obvious the issues

The change was noticeable in the team dynamics imo and helped enormously.

Rutter also much happier coming deep to receive the ball.

Bamford is more of a natural 9 than Piroe. For me Piroe looks like he plays better as the second striker (not a modern 10 but how teams used to have 2 strikers) where he looks for pockets of spaces.

Rutter is for me an enigma in terms of positions. I think playing him in the 9 role but allowing him to wander makes it harder for the opposition to mark him, playing as a straightforward 10 I think would allow a well managed side to simply man mark him. Birmingham didn't do that but that for me is a managerial choice. So for me Rutter's performance today wasn't because he was in a new role but down to Rooney not telling anyone to go tight on him. I think if Rutter had played as a 9 today he would have played the same way and had the same freedom. Rutter and Summerville have struggled in the last 2 matches as they have been closely marked, they have lost the ball so many times trying to take it and roll. Today they had freedom due to the opposition rather than us changing our way of playing.

[Sean_Nile]

Game highlights