Sheffield Wednesday v Leeds United - Post Match Chat

[Sean_Nile]

Oh come on Leon.

If so inclined you could make a list like that for basically any player every game and make it sound brilliant.

And I get accused of stat manipulation . . . .

He gives away a foul but not his fault, he makes a run but never gets the ball, chases the goalie who kicks long and we win the ball back 50 yards away, holds ball up but then gets tackled

Things like that.

If you watched any player you could do this and absolve them of any bad play.

But ok he was great 1st and 2nd half.

How did them grapes taste?

[Kennyb41]

It is interesting that you continually praise Bamford, who Bielsa turned into the striker he is, yet continually want Cooper back in defence whereas throughout his managerial career Bielsa has often converted central midfielders into centrebacks (and wingers into fullbacks) and continually gone for players who were more comfortable with the ball at the feet rather than prioritising tackling. I think Bielsa would have loved to have had Ampadu in his defence although he would probably have also encouraged Gruev to play more of those long raking passes too.

I don't continually want Cooper back in, I think it's very close who the best partnership currently is, Rodon is most definitely No.1 RCH.

LCH is a very close call, but LC is aging and at the end of his career, but i have confidence in him doing a job there still, and have no concerns if he had to play if he's 100% fit.

Ampadu is also a fantastic reader of the play, and yes Bert would work with him 100%, he could also work with a grafter like Gruev.

Ampadu is probably our No.1 LCH now, but i'm only talking about if he wanted to A. Rest him or B. Play him elsewhere.

Against Millwaw - I'd have no problem at all with Rodon/Cooper.
Against Hull - I'd probably prefer Ampadu or Pascal, but again i wouldn't have a problem with Cooper coz of our style, age isn't on his side, which goes against him.

I have not totally wrote Cooper off yet, and with this style there's probably 1 more year in a fully fit Cooper in the Prem, but he'll retire him from LUFC this season end.

A broken biscuit PB is no use to us, but a fully fit one is well worth a 1 year ongoing contract until he's retired to stud.

It is not a desire to continually play Cooper instead of Ampadu or Pascal.

[1964white]

Dan, Michael & Moscow raving about the performances of Rodon & Ampadu.

[Kennyb41]

Dan, Michael & Moscow raving about the performances of Rodon & Ampadu.

They don't half bore ya those 3, i can't listen to them for more that a minute.

Are they all single by any chance ?

[Cjay]

How did them grapes taste?

One of the original Bamford defenders me so it isn't a Bamford hater thing thanks

I don't like grapes

Don't like banana either

[Jaydog]

Sorry to hear that.

[Cjay]

Bamford made a great effort to recover the ball with a great tackle you don't often see from a No.9, it was a fair tackle, the referee called it wrong.

He pressed their back four & the keeper, not allowing them to play out from the back in an effort to win back possession. In other words, he defends from the front, occupying centre-backs by working his socks off, unlike other No.9's who amble around waiting for things to happen.

It's no coincidence why we have witnessed such an upturn in our form since Paddy returned. We now have a solid spine in Meslier, Rodon/Ampadu, Kamara/Gruev & Bamford in our team, something we have lacked for many years.

Nobody Is saying he hasn't been important and done well in the main. He did very well 2nd half and took his goal well.

But certain posters for some strange reason have now decided he is the messiah, never has a poor game ever.

Plenty of players have got far more criticism for similar or even better performances than Bamford 1st half.

You've just mentioned moments in the 1st half, largely inconsequential and manipulated it to make it sound impressive.

As I said, Sheffield Wednesday play MarchBall type , so playing it forward has very little to do with a press, it's the style (Rotherham made them misplace more passes).

If so inclined you could do what you did for any player ever and make it sound like nobody ever had a bad game.

Joel Piroe to the 35th minute vs Chelsea (I got bored and turned it off after then)

1st min- Received ball from long throw, held off defender and layed off to Anthony whose through ball was chased down by James and nearly forced a gk error.

1.5min- Closed down Fernandez causing a poor pass and rushed clearance from which we win the ball back.

7min- Came deep to give gk an option, lays ball off 1st time leading to another James counterattack and first chance of the game.

17min- Receives ball deep in our half, well weighted pass back to gk which allows us to clear.

18min- Receives ball from throw, holds off Defender and plays a pass to Joseph who unfortunately can't get away from defender.

19min- Great run into the box when we have the ball wide, between two defenders unmarked, unfortunately cross is undercut and cleared.

23min- press on Caicedo forcing a poor pass from which we win the ball back.

34 min- Turned well edge of the box, but had 3 players around him and lost possession but made an effort to win back the ball which lead to us winning back possession.

35min- Neat 1-2 with Gray which helped Anthony get 1v1 with full back and lead to a shot from Roberts.

35min- Won ball back from Jackson.

You can make any player sound like they had a good performance if you choose to cherry pick largely inconsequential moments.

Why have you decided its your personal mission to make every Bamford performance sound like prime Pele?

It's favouritism, why?

I'm not a Bamford hater, you go back and look I was one of his original supporters when many preferred Roofe, but I still don't feel the need to big up every small thing.

He's done well mostly, he hasn't been perfect? He wasn't vs Wendies for much of the 1st half, it's OK to say that.

[GreennWhite]

From reading most of the messages ( not all ) about Bamford i took it that fans were not wanting to make him into the new messiah but simply wanting to give him credit for what he has done to help the team so far this season.
But for some fans that's never going to be enough as they cant ever forget the mistakes he made in previous seasons. That stick is always being held up high and waiting to beat him with at any given time.
Some fans just cant move on which is sad

[Cjay]

This is it perfectly. The vast majority wrote him off, most would have got rid if anyone had even offered to take him on a free transfer. I always praised his work rate and how important he was to Bielsa's team, often arguing with those who preferred Nketiah or even Tyler Roberts up front. I felt/hoped that there might still be something left in him if he could get over the injuries but his goal scoring run of late has have surprised me even though he has always been a streaky player. That said he has his limitations, and like you say he is no world beater. If he didn't score last night I'm sure a lot more would have been said about how poorly he controlled it when sent clear added to his lack of pace which ruined a superb chance. He appears to have lost some of his pace, whilst he was never lightning quick he seemed to have decent enough speed. He will always work hard and when he backs it up with goals, as he is doing now, then the misses and miscontrols can be forgiven.

Goals change perception and many fans are fickle.

We are winning and he is scoring so the very same fans praising him now for running a lot or winning the odd flick on were hammering him when we were near the bottom of the Prem and he was still doing those things but missing chances.

Simple as that really.

He was quicker than he seemed I think (think he had our top sprint speed at one point) does seem slower as you say.

[Cjay]

From reading most of the messages ( not all ) about Bamford i took it that fans were not wanting to make him into the new messiah but simply wanting to give him credit for what he has done to help the team so far this season.
But for some fans that's never going to be enough as they cant ever forget the mistakes he made in previous seasons. That stick is always being held up high and waiting to beat him with at any given time.
Some fans just cant move on which is sad

This was literally about some fans saying in game Bamford was poor 1st half before he scored.

Nothing to do with previous seasons

You can bet 100% nobody goes to this effort for Firpo or Cooper.

It's favouritism

[1964white]

Goals change perception and many fans are fickle.

We are winning and he is scoring so the very same fans praising him now for running a lot or winning the odd flick on were hammering him when we were near the bottom of the Prem and he was still doing those things but missing chances.

Simple as that really.

He was quicker than he seemed I think (think he had our top sprint speed at one point) does seem slower as you say.

You have to remember Paddy has had a horrific time with injuries, stop-start training sessions & no pre-seasons.

Paddy does a lot more than just running around.

By making the run his goal came by being in the right place at the right time, not standing statutory on the edge of the box hoping the ball is delivered to him.

His lovely pass to Rutter, who showed no composure, smashing the ball wide, nothing new there!

Paddy's delightful flick/lay off to Rutter in the build-up for our second goal.

Players like Kruev/Kamara have all the time in the world to play a simple pass, Bamford occupies three defenders & expected to produce miracles under lots of physical pressure.

Just give the bloke credit rather than all the unjust criticism he still receives.

[DDB220]

This was literally about some fans saying in game Bamford was poor 1st half before he scored.

Nothing to do with previous seasons

You can bet 100% nobody goes to this effort for Firpo or Cooper.

It's favouritism

I think it has more to do with the debate about whether Joseph should be starting ahead of Bamford.

For me currently, I am not suggesting that the situation won’t change, there is no debate to be had. Bamford is playing well and scoring goals. The team is in a rich vein of form and we are in the business end of the season. Under those circumstances - accumulatively. Why on earth do some want to put Joseph in ?

[1964white]

They don't half bore ya those 3, i can't listen to them for more that a minute.

Are they all single by any chance ?

Michael is a very funny man, they all have a good sense of humour.

Dan & Michael are married with kids, unsure about Moscow. I know Dan's dad who travels to games from Bridlington.

Also, all three are Leeds blokes I believe & are season-ticket holders, Dan & Michael have worked in the radio/TV media previously.

I don't find them boring & thoroughly enjoy them, one of the best podcasts around, imo!

[Cjay]

You have to remember Paddy has had a horrific time with injuries, stop-start training sessions & no pre-seasons.

Paddy does a lot more than just running around.

By making the run his goal came by being in the right place at the right time, not standing statutory on the edge of the box hoping the ball is delivered to him.

His lovely pass to Rutter, who showed no composure, smashing the ball wide, nothing new there!

Paddy's delightful flick/lay off to Rutter in the build-up for our second goal.

Players like Kruev/Kamara have all the time in the world to play a simple pass, Bamford occupies three defenders & expected to produce miracles under lots of physical pressure.

Just give the bloke credit rather than all the unjust criticism he still receives.

You now added things from the 2nd half, he did very well 2nd half and took his goal well.

But as I've shown you can make largely inconsequential moments seem important as I did for Piroe vs Chelsea.

It's not unjust to say he wasn't great before the goal, its true.

Piroe has had no pre season, why are you so harsh on him?

It's the favouritism I'm objecting to.

Don't remember you going to this effort when Bamford was missing chances in the Prem? You like everyone got very frustrated and wanted him sold.

[Cjay]

I think it has more to do with the debate about whether Joseph should be starting ahead of Bamford.

For me currently, I am not suggesting that the situation won’t change, there is no debate to be had. Bamford is playing well and scoring goals. The team is in a rich vein of form and we are in the business end of the season. Under those circumstances - accumulatively. Why on earth do some want to put Joseph in ?

Partly the Joseph thing but was also caused by some saying he was poor first half bar the goal.

I wouldn't start Joseph either.

Bamford has done very well generally but it's the bias I object to.

Absolutely no way Piroe gets the level of defence Bamford has gotten on this thread from certain posters.

Nor would people like Firpo.

Do you think he did very well before the goal 1st half?.

[The Subhuman]

From reading most of the messages ( not all ) about Bamford i took it that fans were not wanting to make him into the new messiah but simply wanting to give him credit for what he has done to help the team so far this season.
But for some fans that's never going to be enough as they cant ever forget the mistakes he made in previous seasons. That stick is always being held up high and waiting to beat him with at any given time.
Some fans just cant move on which is sad

Not sure who your talking about there but not CJay or I ....

[1964white]

From reading most of the messages ( not all ) about Bamford i took it that fans were not wanting to make him into the new messiah but simply wanting to give him credit for what he has done to help the team so far this season.
But for some fans that's never going to be enough as they cant ever forget the mistakes he made in previous seasons. That stick is always being held up high and waiting to beat him with at any given time.
Some fans just cant move on which is sad

Indeed Greenn, they can't wait for Paddy to flop, pure jealousy because their favourites are on the bench!

[The Subhuman]

Definitely a lot of Stepford Wives syndrome here ..... this could be a great forum if it allowed debate rather than ridicule ...

[Cjay]

Definitely an insidious air here at times ... a lot of Stepford Wives syndrome.....

Ridiculous this started because a few said a player had a poor 1st half before the goal.

I've never known defending like it.

People are jealous, bitter, haters.

Literally said a player had a poor half

[Cjay]

Indeed Greenn, they can't wait for Paddy to flop, pure jealousy because their favourites are on the bench!

You never answered my question

Where was this level of defence when Bamford was missing chances in the Prem and you were slagging him off?

Or earlier in the season when DF was giving him 10 mins a game and struggling? You slagged Bamford off as not good enough for more minutes, remember? It was me and a few others who said it was unfair to judge Bamford on such few minutes . . . Not you.


Crap finisher, never fit, waste of money.

I don't remember you writing out your little lists then.

Can you not see the hypocrisy acting like you were always a great fan?

But now dare say he had a poor half and you go to extreme length and brand other fans jealous and bitter or whatever