The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 7th August) Will Leeds abandon Rowe bid?

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Wednesday 7th August, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Will Leeds abandon Rowe bid

Norwich City are demanding a fee of £15m for promising winger Jonny Rowe, according to various sources in the press yesterday. Leeds see Rowe as a natural replacement for Crysencio Summerville, who departed for West Ham earlier this week. They duly submitted an offer of £7m to test the waters, expecting some further wriggle room for negotiation, but would not have predicted they would have to double their bid to get their man. Rowe had a successful breakthrough campaign last season, scoring 12 goals and providing 2 assists in 32 appearances. He has one year left on his contract, but believe Norwich have the option to add a further twelve months to his terms.





Summerville had an attitude problem - Popey

Speaking on his 'Don’t Go To Bed Just Yet' podcast, Adam Pope pulled no punches, deliberating over Crysencio Summerville's sudden ER exit! The BBC sports journalist believes the club should have got more money for their star player, but admitted he thought the Dutchman had an attitude problem, which is why he 'wasn't unhappy' that he had left! It's been well documented that his attitude was called into question during the infancy of his Leeds career, but had matured, especially after Wilfred Gnonto joined, who was seen as a calming influence on Summerville!

It’s the one that at the beginning of the summer, which player is going to be leaving Leeds United? Archie Gray you thought there good chance if the money came in, but Summerville was definitely either first or second on your list. It’s happened, did I think it would be West Ham? No. Did I think it would be £25million? He’s worth more. He’s definitely worth more than that, but there will be add-ons and what have you so it’s happened, it’s gone. Am I unhappy? No, because I think there was an attitude issue. But I think there’s a lot of goals to replace.

This is my season - Joseph

Mateo Joseph has issued an ambitious statement to the rest of the Championship, ahead of their season opener against Portsmouth at the weekend. All the hard work is starting to pay off for the hotshot 20yo, bagging four goals during pre-season including a brace against Hannover, and is now widely tipped to lead the line this season for the Whites, ahead of team-mate Patrick Bamford!

Working hard has only been part of the battle. He has shown maturity beyond his years, waiting patiently for minutes, but then nailing the opportunities when given the chance. Speaking to the Athletic, Joseph feels calm, but has trust in his ability and believes this will be his season to shine!

Pre-season has been tough, it's been a lot of running but I like it because doing the training, I feel fit. It's tough, it's been hard but to be ready for the games we need to be like this. This is my season this year. I don't want to sound too confident but I can't wait to prove it and for the season to start. I did everything I could to train and improve, I see the improvement now. "When you do everything you can to take the opportunities, you have to feel calm about it and trust yourself because there's not anything else you can do.

They told me I have to be patient (for first-team opportunities instead of being sent out on loan), I thought it was a really good choice because you never know what can happen when you go to another place. I'm really happy I stayed, was calm and was given the opportunity. I improved a lot during the season, you could see that as the games went on. We had a good team so it was difficult to get into it, but I made it my space and this year I'm going for more.

[WhiteRose]

Without any more comings or goings we have enough in the first team to be competitive at the top, but fixture pileup and injuries could become a big problem - I’d be surprised if we signed anyone of significance now and we know whatever’s happening come new year there won’t be any signings then either. Seems we have gamblers for owners again and I just hope they get lucky this season.

[Sean_Nile]

When Jimmy grabbed the ball from Joel to take a penalty that he had earned it clearly painted a picture of his attitude.

He took it and scored, it exemplified a brashness and a cockiness of his confidence in his own abilities... perhaps he even earned some extra cash for scoring a penalty. Every manager likes to promote a confident attitude in his player, he likes to see that they are up for it... except when Georgino is showboating.

On the other hand the manager has a designated penalty taker and that happened to be Joel. When the ball was grabbed from his hands he had a bewildered look on his face, almost like a kid in the playground looking for the teacher to support him because of the injustice of it.

[DDB220]

Self belief can sometimes be misinterpreted as an attitude problem and even arrogance.

To get anywhere in competitive sport you need self belief, individuals display that belief in different ways on the pitch.

Joseph is showing his this season, does it mean he has an attitude problem ?

Personally I want that from players, it can sometimes be brash and over the top, as long as they back it up with performances that is what counts for me.

[Pullhard]

Jimmy was brilliant for us last year. I don't really buy all the attitude stuff. It's a tired narrative from a few seasons ago when he was younger. Best of luck to the lad.

Transfer window closes at the end of the month so still a bit of time to play with. Will start stressing in a couple of weeks time if we haven't made some additions.

[Cjay]

Meh, Gray sold they release a leak about rejecting an offer for Georgie.

Summerville flogged despite all the pr about Red Bull and the Gray sale and they brief every single lufc journalist about Gnonto Everton bid rejected.

Now Adam Pope is claiming Summerville had an attitude problem . . . . . .

I smell pr waffle

[Irish Ian]

So to summarise Pope.

Jimmy had an attitude problem (past tense) but now does not have an attitude problem (present tense)

[Orange Box]

Self belief can sometimes be misinterpreted as an attitude problem and even arrogance.

To get anywhere in competitive sport you need self belief, individuals display that belief in different ways on the pitch.

Joseph is showing his this season, does it mean he has an attitude problem ?

Personally I want that from players, it can sometimes be brash and over the top, as long as they back it up with performances that is what counts for me.

I’m reading the opposite, every top sportsperson needs a self-assured attitude, but that doesn’t automatically mean it has to be a problem. I’m reading that Joseph believes he has bided his time and predicts that his time is now. Good for him, I really hope he pulls it off.

[DDB220]

With regards to the question on Rowe about further bids.

There are so many variables - Are Norwich prepared to sell, if so at what price. Do Norwich need the money ?

Will Rowe try and force a move ? Would him doing so reduce what Norwich consider an acceptable amount ?

This could drag on for quite a while yet, it depends on our transfer strategy, I have no idea what the negotiating strategy is, does anyone ?

[ruttermania]

Years ago in another context a guy said to me 'you can always get a crazy price if you can find two fools that want X'. Clubs/ Agents /Media spread stories trying to drum up a market and that's what we had for most of this year with regard to Summerville but at the end of the day there was only really one club that were prepared to put the money down . There was a sense that the little hiatus after the deal was agreed was to see if anyone else would step in at the last minute to start a bidding war and when that didn't happen all parties just bit the bullet .My sense was that Cree himself felt that he had done enough to warrant a top 6 club coming in for him and he settled for West Ham and is now trying to big up that move. The reality is that Leeds knew he would move this summer and they had to move him on now in order to have a decent chance of using that money get the level of player they want . Obviously the big 6 and some of the other foreign clubs looked at Summerville and saw a player who had one break out stop start season in the Premiership and one very good Championship season no senior caps and didn't feel that warranted the kind of fee we were looking for so they declined to get into a bidding war . The reality is that if Summerville had been sold last summer the fee would probably have been in the £10m range so in the absence of other bidders essentially tripling the money on the back of one excellent Championship season is good business . Having a one off Champo season will always be viewed cautiously in the higher leagues as one can see with Szmodics who outscored Summerville . In terms of attitude I accept that focus and self belief are important attributes but the "Side before self" ethos never seemed to resonate with Cree and a different type of player more open to providing assists might unleash Joseph and others.

[Chilli D]

Years ago in another context a guy said to me 'you can always get a crazy price if you can find two fools that want X'. Clubs/ Agents /Media spread stories trying to drum up a market and that's what we had for most of this year with regard to Summerville but at the end of the day there was only really one club that were prepared to put the money down . There was a sense that the little hiatus after the deal was agreed was to see if anyone else would step in at the last minute to start a bidding war and when that didn't happen all parties just bit the bullet .My sense was that Cree himself felt that he had done enough to warrant a top 6 club coming in for him and he settled for West Ham and is now trying to big up that move. The reality is that Leeds knew he would move this summer and they had to move him on now in order to have a decent chance of using that money get the level of player they want . Obviously the big 6 and some of the other foreign clubs looked at Summerville and saw a player who had one break out stop start season in the Premiership and one very good Championship season no senior caps and didn't feel that warranted the kind of fee we were looking for so they declined to get into a bidding war . The reality is that if Summerville had been sold last summer the fee would probably have been in the £10m range so in the absence of other bidders essentially tripling the money on the back of one excellent Championship season is good business . Having a one off Champo season will always be viewed cautiously in the higher leagues as one can see with Szmodics who outscored Summerville . In terms of attitude I accept that focus and self belief are important attributes but the "Side before self" ethos never seemed to resonate with Cree and a different type of player more open to providing assists might unleash Joseph and others.

Good post

[VinnysTattoo]

Looking forward to seeing more of Joseph this season.

Like that he has bided his time and not gone for a move.

Maybe this will signal the end of Bamford at the club.

[mentalcase]

Years ago in another context a guy said to me 'you can always get a crazy price if you can find two fools that want X'. Clubs/ Agents /Media spread stories trying to drum up a market and that's what we had for most of this year with regard to Summerville but at the end of the day there was only really one club that were prepared to put the money down . There was a sense that the little hiatus after the deal was agreed was to see if anyone else would step in at the last minute to start a bidding war and when that didn't happen all parties just bit the bullet .My sense was that Cree himself felt that he had done enough to warrant a top 6 club coming in for him and he settled for West Ham and is now trying to big up that move. The reality is that Leeds knew he would move this summer and they had to move him on now in order to have a decent chance of using that money get the level of player they want . Obviously the big 6 and some of the other foreign clubs looked at Summerville and saw a player who had one break out stop start season in the Premiership and one very good Championship season no senior caps and didn't feel that warranted the kind of fee we were looking for so they declined to get into a bidding war . The reality is that if Summerville had been sold last summer the fee would probably have been in the £10m range so in the absence of other bidders essentially tripling the money on the back of one excellent Championship season is good business . Having a one off Champo season will always be viewed cautiously in the higher leagues as one can see with Szmodics who outscored Summerville . In terms of attitude I accept that focus and self belief are important attributes but the "Side before self" ethos never seemed to resonate with Cree and a different type of player more open to providing assists might unleash Joseph and others.

Sums it up for me that
As for bamford, he ain't going anywhere yet, still have a part to play for us whether we like it or not, hope it's not at the expense of the ever improving Joseph.
Summerville I always expected to go, but if we keep gnonto and james along with rutter, we will be fine, especially if we get additions in, Archie is by far the biggest loss for me.

[DDB220]

Years ago in another context a guy said to me 'you can always get a crazy price if you can find two fools that want X'. Clubs/ Agents /Media spread stories trying to drum up a market and that's what we had for most of this year with regard to Summerville but at the end of the day there was only really one club that were prepared to put the money down . There was a sense that the little hiatus after the deal was agreed was to see if anyone else would step in at the last minute to start a bidding war and when that didn't happen all parties just bit the bullet .My sense was that Cree himself felt that he had done enough to warrant a top 6 club coming in for him and he settled for West Ham and is now trying to big up that move. The reality is that Leeds knew he would move this summer and they had to move him on now in order to have a decent chance of using that money get the level of player they want . Obviously the big 6 and some of the other foreign clubs looked at Summerville and saw a player who had one break out stop start season in the Premiership and one very good Championship season no senior caps and didn't feel that warranted the kind of fee we were looking for so they declined to get into a bidding war . The reality is that if Summerville had been sold last summer the fee would probably have been in the £10m range so in the absence of other bidders essentially tripling the money on the back of one excellent Championship season is good business . Having a one off Champo season will always be viewed cautiously in the higher leagues as one can see with Szmodics who outscored Summerville . In terms of attitude I accept that focus and self belief are important attributes but the "Side before self" ethos never seemed to resonate with Cree and a different type of player more open to providing assists might unleash Joseph and others.

What does ‘Side before self” actually mean.

The context of this ethos is very open ended and can be applied to any situation dependant upon personal perspective.

If we consider the Summerville penalty situation, which is often considered by quite a few as a negative.

He took the ball from Piroe and went on to score an important penalty. Who gained the most from this - Summerville or the club ?

If Bamford was going to take that penalty, how many would have seen Summerville taking the ball off him as a negative ?

It was an important goal in the context of the match.

If we flip this around - Summerville placed a lot of emphasis on himself by taking personal responsibility. Was doing so more detrimental to him or the club. Consider the reaction if he had failed to convert that. Also consider the reaction if Piroe had taken the penalty and failed to convert it, particularly if Piroe had insisted he take it.

It is a double edged sword and the application of the ethos is open to interpretation.

Bamford plays with an injury - is this for his benefit or the team ?

It is a great Ethos that has existed from the 70’s if not earlier. Whilst is a great statement - the game has moved on and the stakes are higher. Does this ethos carry the same application these days.

Personally, I consider it a stick that many will use against any perceived negative.

[Ellandback1]

Joseph was talking like loan moves are bad - or perhaps he was persuaded not to go out on loan.

Personally, had he gone out on loan this time last year, and then had him back in January, we might be in the top flight now - small margins...

[Ropey Wyla]

Well said!

[Mick Jones shoulder]

He's Dutch what did you expect, regards attitude

[The Subhuman]

Best team last season

Meslier
Byram/Roberts
Firpo
Ampadu/Gruev
Rodon
Struijk/Ampadu
Gnonto
Gray
Joseph
Georginio
Summerville

[ruttermania]

On the penalty thing I didn't really see that as an issue of attitude because the big issue was that Piroe wasn't long on the pitch so there was a justifiable argument for Summerville to take it . Piroe wanted to take it because that is the natural instinct of a goalscorer but I think this season with Ampadu confirmed as captain that he would make the call and avoid the appearance of a dispute . I think the Bielsa side epitomised the ethos of Side before Self which was one of the many reasons that we bought into the whole thing and why it was such an exciting period for the club . Why do people boo Aaronson and Wober if they don't feel that they put their self interest before that of the club. It's also probably one of the reasons why people felt the loss of Archie so keenly because in a way he embodied that spirit in a way which is vanishing from the game .

[Phild]

Excited for this season in that for the first time in years we have a different dynamic up front, assuming Joseph starts.
Hope he is given a chance, even if things don’t go his way in the first couple of games.
Not sure where Piroe and Aaranson fit but would give the latter the first opportunity, again an offering different from last season.