The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 19th August) - Leeds fans are fed up with all the excuses

[Ellandback1]

So you complain about us overpaying for players and in the next breath you think we should be paying £25m for Clarke because that's what somebody at Sunderland says that's what he's worth ?At a certain price Clarke would be worth a punt but it's well short of the figure mentioned . This week will tell a lot about what business has been going on in the background and I will still reserve judgement as the level of overreaction to every internet rumour is frankly ridiculous at this stage . Last years transfer window was ultimately reasonably successful despite all of the frothing over loan clauses and fed into a 90 point season managed by DF .There's a totally unnecessary panic that something must happen immediately rather than a rational response and hopefully the club and the 49ers are focused on getting the job done .

Absolutely agree, and now we have one hand tied behind our backs.

Clarke is probably the closest natural replacement for Summerville, but not quite as good, yet they'll be wanting the same kinda money...

[WhiteRose]

I don’t think we are in for Clarke, see section 15.1 of the owners handbook - “when signing players never go for the obvious choice”

[ruttermania]

Bamford and Piroe were good for 20+ goals last season and will probably get more this season so if that's the kind of 'deadwood' you're getting rid of we may as well give up now . Joseph is a great prospect but he is by no means the finished article and we will need all the experience and nous of those two to guide him through the season and to provide back up . Wober if he sticks around and gets his head sorted is well capable of doing a job but that's probably a lost cause at this stage . There is still a player there in Gelhardt and I for one would like to see him tried as a 10.

[Sean_Nile]

Owners come and go but the same board room idiosyncrasies remain, it’s like there’s some kind of LUFC code of conduct document passed down through the generations, each owner adds another chapter of crap before passing the club on - the new owners have a chance to tear that up and set us on a new course but so far they seem happy to follow tradition

How often we hear the cry we need to get back to where we belong, as though it is a God given right that we should belong in the top flight.

The imagery that is also often used is getting back to the promised land... there is a sense of entitlement, that we are a big club, a one city club and that we are special because of our esteemed past and loyal fans.

It is so engrained into our thought processes, that any setback, any glitch in the plans, we take as a personal affront, and spew our distaste that fate has once again thwarted our destiny, our glorious future has been snatched away from us by incompetent managers, and crooked owners who are only in it for the money.

We set ourselves up for disappointment, by having such grandiose ideas of ourselves and our teams abilities.

"When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place."

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Seems to be an inexorable law of life that in order to be an owner of LUFC you have to have no business sense at all, and to be a compulsive poor decision maker. I mean, when was this club last run well by savvy people with good business acumen ? At least with the 49ers they have the excuse that they inherited a legacy of appalling transfer deals and general financial chaos courtesy of the last regime.

We could have gone back in for Clarke when he was worth 750k, but no - now we are back in for 25m apparently. It reminds me of how we nearly bought James for 7m, and instead ended up paying 25m for him. Radz was a clueless chancer, and as for Orta - well the club will be feeling the consequences for years to come of having that clown as the DOF....The JKA fiasco must be the worst transaction in football history anywhere in the world.

And just to cheer you up ; https://www.leedsallover.com/victor-ort ... mls-at-22/

[Ellandback1]

Did we let Cressy go too soon? I'm gonna say he'll be a £25m player by next Summer!

[ruttermania]

Why would we have bought Clarke at 750k when we were a Premiership club and Spurs had effectively written him off as a Premiership player ? It often happens that players fail to live up to their early promise and it was a pure fluke that Mowbray was able to get him back to his best in a less pressured environment . Radz and Orta made plenty of mistakes but they also appointed Bielsa and for that alone they deserve enormous credit and I for one am still not sure how it happened . Given the parade of true chancers and wideboys who ran the club since 2000 it seems very harsh that the 2 who were responsible for the single most consequential decision in the clubs history since the appointment of Don Revie should be singled out . It was no fault of theirs that the then Swansea Chairman went against instructions and pulled the plug on the James deal and then hid for the closing hours of the Transfer Window. Radz made the mistake of putting too much trust in Orta and he paid the price of having to take a loss of approximately 2/3 of the value placed on the club in his sale to the 49ers . Orta lost the run of himself and was constantly looking for the big bang of the Raphinha type deal instead of building a squad and the worst thing was the unhappy marriage of himself and Marsch . The JKA deal still rankles with us all but I remember the howling that went after the Nketiah recall and now I see the same panicked reaction to a slightly unfortunate series of events. I hope there are a few grown ups at Elland Road looking to deal with this situation calmly , coolly and professionally and I would prefer that it takes time rather than impulsive kneejerk reactions which cost us in the long term.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Why would we have bought Clarke at 750k when we were a Premiership club and Spurs had effectively written him off as a Premiership player ? It often happens that players fail to live up to their early promise and it was a pure fluke that Mowbray was able to get him back to his best in a less pressured environment . Radz and Orta made plenty of mistakes but they also appointed Bielsa and for that alone they deserve enormous credit and I for one am still not sure how it happened . Given the parade of true chancers and wideboys who ran the club since 2000 it seems very harsh that the 2 who were responsible for the single most consequential decision in the clubs history since the appointment of Don Revie should be singled out . It was no fault of theirs that the then Swansea Chairman went against instructions and pulled the plug on the James deal and then hid for the closing hours of the Transfer Window. Radz made the mistake of putting too much trust in Orta and he paid the price of having to take a loss of approximately 2/3 of the value placed on the club in his sale to the 49ers . Orta lost the run of himself and was constantly looking for the big bang of the Raphinha type deal instead of building a squad and the worst thing was the unhappy marriage of himself and Marsch . The JKA deal still rankles with us all but I remember the howling that went after the Nketiah recall and now I see the same panicked reaction to a slightly unfortunate series of events. I hope there are a few grown ups at Elland Road looking to deal with this situation calmly , coolly and professionally and I would prefer that it takes time rather than impulsive kneejerk reactions which cost us in the long term.

"Given the parade of true chancers and wideboys who ran the club since 2000 it seems very harsh that the 2 who were responsible for the single most consequential decision in the clubs history since the appointment of Don Revie should be singled out "

That's quite a claim. I would say that the decision to appoint Wilko in Oct 1988 when we were languishing near the bottom of the old 2nd Division, resulting in promotion as second division champions the next season, finishing 4th in our first season back in the old first division and then beating Man U to win the first division title the following season would better fit that claim. Plus several seasons playing in Europe. Do people still persist with the idea that Bielsa stands as the 2nd best Leeds manager ever ?? If so, do they know anything about the Wilko era or for that matter the O'Leary era ? O' Leary took us to two European semis, including a Champion's League semi, plus our best ever PL finish of 3rd, having spent part of that season at the top of the table.

As far as I'm concerned, Radz took over with us in the championship and exited with us in the championship, having blown the good work and the feel good factor of the promotion season and that first season back in the PL. And Bielsa had already pointed us in a trajectory towards relegation when he was sacked.

[lufc1304]

How often we hear the cry we need to get back to where we belong, as though it is a God given right that we should belong in the top flight.

The imagery that is also often used is getting back to the promised land... there is a sense of entitlement, that we are a big club, a one city club and that we are special because of our esteemed past and loyal fans.

It is so engrained into our thought processes, that any setback, any glitch in the plans, we take as a personal affront, and spew our distaste that fate has once again thwarted our destiny, our glorious future has been snatched away from us by incompetent managers, and crooked owners who are only in it for the money.

We set ourselves up for disappointment, by having such grandiose ideas of ourselves and our teams abilities.

"When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place."

Spot on, Sean. We've been in existence since 1919 and in that time we've had true success (should have been more) under the Don, a few great seasons under Wilko, a fun time for a while under O'Leary and renewed hope under Bielsa. The vast majority of the rest of our time as a football club has been mediocrity in whatever league we've been in. We have the potential to be a big club, one club city, worldwide fanbase etc, but that's it, potential. The idea that we are a big club and should be in the Prem is tenuous to say the least. We aren't and you have to earn the right, which we've managed twice in the last 20 seasons!

[1964white]

I thought Struijk carried the team, his martialing of the defence was outstanding.

Me too.

[andrewjohnsmith]

How often we hear the cry we need to get back to where we belong, as though it is a God given right that we should belong in the top flight.

The imagery that is also often used is getting back to the promised land... there is a sense of entitlement, that we are a big club, a one city club and that we are special because of our esteemed past and loyal fans.

It is so engrained into our thought processes, that any setback, any glitch in the plans, we take as a personal affront, and spew our distaste that fate has once again thwarted our destiny, our glorious future has been snatched away from us by incompetent managers, and crooked owners who are only in it for the money.

We set ourselves up for disappointment, by having such grandiose ideas of ourselves and our teams abilities.

"When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place."

I feel "The promised land" is an appropriate analogy. A leader lost in the desert for 40 years, having to perform miracles to get there

[Carrick Dave]

Jack Clarke £25 Million, someone is having a laugh. £15M max.

Lets all calm down (yes even me) and see how the board bring in replacements for the players sold. We still have until the end of the month before the window closes.

Keel the faith !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOT

Well said lad.

[andrewjohnsmith]

25 million would be bad business for a championship club. We need about 4 players. Can't afford to spend 25 million on one. Plus paying 25m for Clarke would just make the Summerville deal look worse.

[Victor_OTT_17]

25 million would be bad business for a championship club. We need about 4 players. Can't afford to spend 25 million on one. Plus paying 25m for Clarke would just make the Summerville deal look worse.

I said the same on another thread last week. Selling Cree for £25m and buying Clarke for the same price just does not add up. Cree is twice the player Clarke is. £15m tops and if that's not enough, look elsewhere...

[Jaydog]

To some extent it was not far from a miracle getting 40 mill for Rutter as we massively overpaid in the first place so yes shelling out 25 of that for Clarke is madness. For me i’m not fussed as players coming back to where they started doesn’t always work out.
We need to be more imaginative.

[Jammy 07]

25 million would be bad business for a championship club. We need about 4 players. Can't afford to spend 25 million on one. Plus paying 25m for Clarke would just make the Summerville deal look worse.

How about spending the Georginio money on 2 players @ £20M each ?

One who can score and one who can create.

[Rook]

£25m for Jack Clarke is absolute insanity.

[Jammy 07]

£25m for Jack Clarke is absolute insanity.

The reality is a bid of £12-15M would be very difficult for them to turn down.

[The Subhuman]

But bartering will take time and while you do it another target might disappear. Then would Jack Clarke want to come, at the moment he's probably at the more ambitious club by appearance.

[ruttermania]

I accept that there is a valid argument to be made in respect of Wilko and that team but the game has changed so much in the interim that it is a very difficult comparison ultimately . I don't think O'Leary was in the same situation at all as the club was an established Premiership force when he took over so his role was not transformational in the sense that Wilko and Bielsa changed the culture . If Radz had sold up in 2021 he would have got less than he hoped for but he would have left with a shining reputation with only a few doubters . As I say he paid the price for hanging on both in his pocket and with his reputation among Leeds fans . On that basis given that his first year was the season of Christiansen and Heckingbottom I refuse to rush to judgement on the 49ers based on a bad week and a slow transfer window which has ample time for further twists and turns .