Refereeing standards & development

[ElKapitan]

Shocking ref again......

The system for referee development in this country is one of the poorest in the world.

My friend is on level 3 of his refereeing journey, really interesting conversation a few months ago.

So as I understand it there are 7 levels they have to pass to get up to championship standard.

My mate has said that to pass the first four levels you have basically got to turn up on the day. You then get a review of your performance and as long as you are fit enough to go for the 90 you pass.

Now the issue with this that my mate has said is that decision making is not reviewed at any point, implementation of the laws of the game, obvious areas of improvement etc you get a half an hour conversation but nothing more....

You are not coached during your development by someone more experienced and any errors you have are carried through to level 4. You have no structure to develop into a professional.

The other issue is that those reviewing them are failed referees. I.e. those that did not make it to a professional standard.

Now you start to get reviewed in depth if you want to go through to level 5 and above. However, still no coaching game by game to develop. You have to pass extended written tests but if you're a bookworm its not difficult. You can then go to none league.

You then get reviewed over several games.... Again a 30 minute conversation. The issue here being that the standards are still very low and you guessed it, are reviewed (most of the time) by people who never made it themselves.
Your fitness is key and as long as there are no glaring issues you pass. You just have to justify a decision made even if you do. Most who get to this level pass as there is massive pressure to increase numbers of referees.

The same trajectory continues with the emphasis on fitness increasing. A high percentage of those who fail, fail because of fitness and become linesmen which is another issue entirely.

There is zero professional structure to training in the game with interaction between ref and a sporting body being minimal and superficial.

This contrasts to France say where experienced referee's coach younger referees with different experienced (older/retired referees) having weekly interaction with those looking to progress.

We are laughed at by those in Europe for the quality of refs here and considering we have the prem none were taken for the last world cup. Telling.

Really poor system and we wonder why they're so inconsistent when the best go to the prem.

[YorkshireSquare]

Hope you don't mind, I've split this out from the match thread as I felt it was worthy of it's own debate

[danhirons]

we did have refs at the last world cup

also the reffing elsewhere around europe is also crap, I play football in Germany and the refs are apalling

i'm guessing you have no clue about the process to become a ref in other countries and are just assuming they're better without knowing it and without watching many refs in other countries

in short, i think refs are crap everywhere

[mentalcase]

Refs are absolutely dreadful, no idea most of the time and are behind as the the game. is too quick.
Take todays game for example, the ref was dreadful, missed so much and booked players for nothing, then let the opposition get away with more.
I've said for a long time, we need 4 linesmen, but, no point unless the refs actually listen to them, too many refs want to be the main person on the pitch rather than letting the game flow.
The laws of the game are a big concern for me, made for the ref and not the players.

[Orange Box]

Shocking ref again......

The system for referee development in this country is one of the poorest in the world.

My friend is on level 3 of his refereeing journey, really interesting conversation a few months ago.

So as I understand it there are 7 levels they have to pass to get up to championship standard.

My mate has said that to pass the first four levels you have basically got to turn up on the day. You then get a review of your performance and as long as you are fit enough to go for the 90 you pass.

Now the issue with this that my mate has said is that decision making is not reviewed at any point, implementation of the laws of the game, obvious areas of improvement etc you get a half an hour conversation but nothing more....

You are not coached during your development by someone more experienced and any errors you have are carried through to level 4. You have no structure to develop into a professional.

The other issue is that those reviewing them are failed referees. I.e. those that did not make it to a professional standard.

Now you start to get reviewed in depth if you want to go through to level 5 and above. However, still no coaching game by game to develop. You have to pass extended written tests but if you're a bookworm its not difficult. You can then go to none league.

You then get reviewed over several games.... Again a 30 minute conversation. The issue here being that the standards are still very low and you guessed it, are reviewed (most of the time) by people who never made it themselves.
Your fitness is key and as long as there are no glaring issues you pass. You just have to justify a decision made even if you do. Most who get to this level pass as there is massive pressure to increase numbers of referees.

The same trajectory continues with the emphasis on fitness increasing. A high percentage of those who fail, fail because of fitness and become linesmen which is another issue entirely.

There is zero professional structure to training in the game with interaction between ref and a sporting body being minimal and superficial.

This contrasts to France say where experienced referee's coach younger referees with different experienced (older/retired referees) having weekly interaction with those looking to progress.

We are laughed at by those in Europe for the quality of refs here and considering we have the prem none were taken for the last world cup. Telling.

Really poor system and we wonder why they're so inconsistent when the best go to the prem.

Told you it was a good post , just wrong place ,wrong time, but that’s been fixed now.

So I’m sat here hoping your mate has got it wrong but after seeing that guy out there today I don’t think he has. I’ve never really been one to call out somebody for having a go at something I wouldn’t, but you have to question a system that allows such poor standards to thrive. I wouldn’t mind so much if the decision making had been consistent , but it was all over the place today. We got away with a few, so it wasn’t as though the guy was biased. He was just dreadful.

[Barlow Boy]

Shocking ref again......

The system for referee development in this country is one of the poorest in the world.

My friend is on level 3 of his refereeing journey, really interesting conversation a few months ago.

So as I understand it there are 7 levels they have to pass to get up to championship standard.

My mate has said that to pass the first four levels you have basically got to turn up on the day. You then get a review of your performance and as long as you are fit enough to go for the 90 you pass.

Now the issue with this that my mate has said is that decision making is not reviewed at any point, implementation of the laws of the game, obvious areas of improvement etc you get a half an hour conversation but nothing more....

You are not coached during your development by someone more experienced and any errors you have are carried through to level 4. You have no structure to develop into a professional.

The other issue is that those reviewing them are failed referees. I.e. those that did not make it to a professional standard.

Now you start to get reviewed in depth if you want to go through to level 5 and above. However, still no coaching game by game to develop. You have to pass extended written tests but if you're a bookworm its not difficult. You can then go to none league.

You then get reviewed over several games.... Again a 30 minute conversation. The issue here being that the standards are still very low and you guessed it, are reviewed (most of the time) by people who never made it themselves.
Your fitness is key and as long as there are no glaring issues you pass. You just have to justify a decision made even if you do. Most who get to this level pass as there is massive pressure to increase numbers of referees.

The same trajectory continues with the emphasis on fitness increasing. A high percentage of those who fail, fail because of fitness and become linesmen which is another issue entirely.

There is zero professional structure to training in the game with interaction between ref and a sporting body being minimal and superficial.

This contrasts to France say where experienced referee's coach younger referees with different experienced (older/retired referees) having weekly interaction with those looking to progress.

We are laughed at by those in Europe for the quality of refs here and considering we have the prem none were taken for the last world cup. Telling.

Really poor system and we wonder why they're so inconsistent when the best go to the prem.

What an interesting post .

I’ll confess I hadn’t given a second thought to how the refs are trained, or taught, but I would have thought it would be a lot more structured than what you say.

How do the authorities expect the standard of refereeing to improve when the young referees are being taught by failed referees ?

[1964white]

Refs are absolutely dreadful, no idea most of the time and are behind as the the game. is too quick.
Take todays game for example, the ref was dreadful, missed so much and booked players for nothing, then let the opposition get away with more.
I've said for a long time, we need 4 linesmen, but, no point unless the refs actually listen to them, too many refs want to be the main person on the pitch rather than letting the game flow.
The laws of the game are a big concern for me, made for the ref and not the players.

Gavin Ward was inconsistent & clueless today.

[Prisoner37]

I don't know if it is the atmosphere at Elland Road but refs just seem to go to pieces.

I'm wondering if they are so determined not to be swayed by the crowd they end up favouring the away team?

After Ward's first round of Wan*er, Wan*er yesterday he seemed to lose the plot completely for quiet a while.

[DDB220]

It is easy to criticise a referee when you are watching on TV at an elevated level and with the comfort of a replay.

At ground level with one angle and the need to make a split second decision it is a different situation entirely.

The pathway to becoming a referee is there to encourage more people to consider trying it.

There will always be a level of subjectivity with every decision.

What one set of fans consider to be the right decision is wrong with the opposing set.

It is a tough gig and if you go and witness the abuse a ref gets at the lower pathway level it makes you wonder why anyone would want to do it.

Easy to criticise a person doing their job in any walk of life. For some people it is all they do whilst sat on their sofa with a self delusional mindset that they could do better, whilst wondering what burger to order on their app.

[Reedy]

I’ll stick up for the officials a bit - I qualified as a referee when I was a teenager, there’s some really bizarre rules you have to know - If a goalkeeper takes a goal kick and passes the ball into his own net, it’s not a goal, it’s a corner - is one of my favourites.

From my view in the north stand yesterday, the ref made some decisions that I thought were correct and some which were incorrect - copy and paste this for every football match I’ve been to, at every level. I went to a national league game last weekend and I thought the officials were decent, those around me disagreed!!

Officials at Championship level have been doing it for many years and have done the hard yards to officiate at this level. They only get spoken about when you disagree with them, the best officials are the ones you don’t see (the officials we had for the play off semi final against Norwich in the home leg spring to mind).

[mentalcase]

He was that bad yesterday he gave gnonto offside for the first goal.

[ElKapitan]

What an interesting post .

I’ll confess I hadn’t given a second thought to how the refs are trained, or taught, but I would have thought it would be a lot more structured than what you say.

How do the authorities expect the standard of refereeing to improve when the young referees are being taught by failed referees ?

I honestly had no idea myself before talking to my mate, he's kind of given it up due to an injury and I bet theres more to it than what he said, but think I got a good overview/jist from him.

He seems to think its a funding issue.

A championship referee earns a base rate 120k per year with add ons for important/difficult games etc so theyre pretty loaded once their body gives up. However there is no money in coaching other referees meaning that most just leave the game and retire instead of using their experience to train the next generation.

I think its an incredibly hard job but what can you really learn to progress in say your positioning to get the best view in a half hour conversation? Not much in my opinion....

Some refs just get it and love the game so it comes natural.... (we have some good referees in the champ I reckon but few and far between). Others dont and are never trained how to be better meaning their early career mistakes keep on happening unless they address it themselves which if they dont know any better never happens.

Big issues with consistency in the English game where other leagues dont seem to have such issues.

[mentalcase]

Half the issue for me is the rules of the game, and that most refs can't use their common any longer and use the "letter of the law" then a lot of refs think the game is about them and ultimately spoil it.
I stand by what I said earlier, have 4 linemen and make them as important as the ref.

[hector]

Half the issue for me is the rules of the game, and that most refs can't use their common any longer and use the "letter of the law" then a lot of refs think the game is about them and ultimately spoil it.
I stand by what I said earlier, have 4 linemen and make them as important as the ref.

Linepeople

[mentalcase]

Linepeople

Yes this is correct, no wonder I'm classed as racist, now sexist ,where is the rainbow emoji !!

[hector]

Yes this is correct, no wonder I'm classed as racist, now sexist ,where is the rainbow emoji !!

[Finnatic]

A qualified referee I know told me that red and yellow cards have the same £14 fine for amateur level and Premier League level.
Example: Man United would be fined £42 for the three yellows they picked up yesterday whereas the Dog and Duck pub team would pick up four yellows for a £56 fine.

[mentalcase]

A qualified referee I know told me that red and yellow cards have the same £14 fine for amateur level and Premier League level.
Example: Man United would be fined £42 for the three yellows they picked up yesterday whereas the Dog and Duck pub team would pick up four yellows for a £56 fine.

Yep, tis true, absolutely no punishment at all , the archaic FA & PL do nothing about it.
Mr Smith* who lakes for the local pub side and is mostly skint feels the effect of a £14 fine or worse for a sending off, Mr Fernandez who earns £350,000 per week dosen't give a hoot as it makes no sense to him whatsoever.

*name altered to protect the innocent*

[Barlow Boy]

A qualified referee I know told me that red and yellow cards have the same £14 fine for amateur level and Premier League level.
Example: Man United would be fined £42 for the three yellows they picked up yesterday whereas the Dog and Duck pub team would pick up four yellows for a £56 fine.

Deary me

Absolutely farcical.

[Finnatic]

Yep, tis true, absolutely no punishment at all , the archaic FA & PL do nothing about it.
Mr Smith* who lakes for the local pub side and is mostly skint feels the effect of a £14 fine or worse for a sending off, Mr Fernandez who earns £350,000 per week dosen't give a hoot as it makes no sense to him whatsoever.

*name altered to protect the innocent*

Farcical