Middlesbrough pre match chat

[Cjay]

Midweek game so early pre match thread.

An efficient if unspectacular win vs Derby County sent us top for only the 2nd time this season (atleast until tomorrow).

A 4th win in 4 games with 0 goals conceded at home continues our almost perfect home form.

A professional performance puts us into a strong position going into the midweek games.

But Tuesday will present a different type of test, a much better team who have beaten us at home this season and done it well.

Last time we met Middlesbrough was in the Carabao Cup, a Leeds team including Rothwell, Aaronson, Piroe, Firpo, Ampadu and Rodon from the very start with Wober starting and Gnonto, Gruev, Bogle, Struijk and the departed Rutter all coming off the bench were unable to lay a glove on a backup and at the time injury hit Boro side which had to play former LUFC Captain the now 36 year old Jonny Howson at cb in a humbling 3-0 defeat for us.

Whilst not as weakened a team as Boro put out it has to be said with quite a few current starters in it or coming off the bench it was early in the season and we are now a better outfit and will have our best team out of course with only a few injuries to worry about far as we know.

But Boro are a threat, they've shown they can beat us at Elland Road, and beat us well.

They also would argue I'm sure they are a better side now and the squad is in much better shape.

Current key players such as Tommy Conway, Emmanuel Latte Lath, Finn Azaz, Hayden Hackney, Ben Doak and Dael Fry were not involved or did not start last time we met.

In terms of tactics Michael Carrick is fairly committed to his 4-2-3-1 formation, this hasnt always been the case as Carrick has occasionally switched to a back 3 or a back 5, but he prefers his 4-2-3-1.

That changes in or out of possession with it often becoming a back 3 with one of the full backs tucking in or the holding midfielder when Middlesbrough are in possession.

They play a fluid system with positional rotation and risk a part of the game both in and out of possession.

A risk that has bitten them on occasion with goals going in at the wrong end.

But going forward when it clicks they are very slick, very quick and very effective.

They have the highest xG in the league, the most touches in the opposition box, they are in fact slightly under performing their xG for and against (conceding more than they should and scoring less).

In fact quite a few predicted Championship tables have them top end of the season for this very reason.

They prefer a short passing style similar to ourselves but play with more width with the Boro wingers generally coming less narrow than ours do. This suits them as they do utilise switches of play a lot (twice as much as we do) and whilst not a long ball team they will use it and its accurate (usually over the top) the most accurate long ball passers in the league.

As previously mentioned though this commitment to pretty attacking football has bitten them, they haven't kept a clean sheet in 8 games. They've conceded 22 goals which whilst not awful is statistically on the high side for teams challenging for promotion as Boro expect to be.

Form is good however, 14 points from last 6 games overall, won 2 drawn 2 of the last 4 away and should have beaten Burnley yesterday and have beaten Sheffield United as well.

On the flip side a defeat to our opponents this afternoon Derby and draws vs Preston and Portsmouth have shown the struggles


In terms of key players they have a large array of impressive attacking players in good form.

Playmaker Finn Azaz who plays usually just behind the lone striker has the joint most assists in the league and the 2nd most goals and assists combined with 13 (Championship's top creator overall with most chances created).

Next to him on the right is 19 year old Liverpool wonderkid Ben Doak. An impressive young man, 3rd most assists in the league, 5th most chances created overall and one of the most effective dribblers in the league (5th again).

The intelligence of Azaz and his eye for a pass combined with the pace and directness of his young teammate has proven a fruitful combination for Boro.

And ahead of them they have the option of two of the form strikers in the league.

Emmanuel Latte Lath and Tommy Conway have 15 goals between them.

Neither big strikers but they are mobile and clever, Conway though no shrinking violet is more prone to running in behind and stretching the play, Latte Lath is more keen to hold it up and fight but he is equally capable of running in behind.

So a dangerous side going forward with capable players offensively and not as awful at defending as perhaps it seems at times, but one that is struggling to keep goals out.

For ourselves the usual questions about players.

Rotation?

Gnonto in?
Ramazani?

The big one may be who replaces Firpo vs Ben Doak because get that wrong and that could decide the game.

Last time we played Boro they didn't park the bus but they were happy to let us have the majority of the ball and just smack us in transition, could we see a role reversal?

Would a more pragmatic approach be sensible against a side that can over commit?

Or is that not an approach the Elland Road crowd would accept?

[andrewjohnsmith]

I see Boro as a threat. High scoring, as you say. Obviously a good attacking team

On top of that they've had the extra day off, having played on Friday. Short turn around for us.

[andrewjohnsmith]

• Wober almost certain to start at LB after his performance today and injury to Firpo

• At least one winger will get rotated for Gnonto - likely James since he played the most minutes. Might rotate both wingers if Rmazani is considered ready to start

• Always the question of rotation up front. But Piroe played well so I expect he'll start

Meslier
Bogle, Rodon, Strujik, Wober
Tanaka, Rothwell
Gnonto, Aarsonson, Ramazani (or Solomon)
Piroe

• Can't see any of Byram, Ampadu, or Schmidt being ready to start

[rich_leeds64]

A much tougher challenge than our previous 4 home opponents. However our last 7 home games reads very well P 7 W 7 GF 17 GA 1 Points 21, let’s hope our excellent home form continues

[Sean_Nile]

Ben Doak is nae joke
He gies maist teams the dry boke.

In Scottish you might say that something “gives you the dry boke” (alternative spelling: “boak”), which conveys disgust more explicitly because it describes the act of throwing up. It can also generally describe a sickly feeling; it’s a markedly more flexible expression than simply saying that you feel ill.

[malcolmw]

• Wober almost certain to start at LB after his performance today and injury to Firpo

• At least one winger will get rotated for Gnonto - likely James since he played the most minutes. Might rotate both wingers if Rmazani is considered ready to start

• Always the question of rotation up front. But Piroe played well so I expect he'll start

Meslier
Bogle, Rodon, Strujik, Wober
Tanaka, Rothwell
Gnonto, Aarsonson, Ramazani (or Solomon)
Piroe

• Can't see any of Byram, Ampadu, or Schmidt being ready to start

Yes, worries me this one. They are a good side and in decent form.

Agree with your starting line up. DF seems to stick with a winning team if possible. Not sure what changes would make the starting 11 any better frankly.

I'm just hoping form and momentum carry us through.

[1964white]

I would start Bamford.

Please tell me, what have Piroe & Joseph have done of late to justify starting?

We need to hold the ball up to stop Boro' continually coming at us on their attacks,

[CUSSIE01]

Midweek game so early pre match thread.

An efficient if unspectacular win vs Derby County sent us top for only the 2nd time this season (atleast until tomorrow).

A 4th win in 4 games with 0 goals conceded at home continues our almost perfect home form.

A professional performance puts us into a strong position going into the midweek games.

But Tuesday will present a different type of test, a much better team who have beaten us at home this season and done it well.

Last time we met Middlesbrough was in the Carabao Cup, a Leeds team including Rothwell, Aaronson, Piroe, Firpo, Ampadu and Rodon from the very start with Wober starting and Gnonto, Gruev, Bogle, Struijk and the departed Rutter all coming off the bench were unable to lay a glove on a backup and at the time injury hit Boro side which had to play former LUFC Captain the now 36 year old Jonny Howson at cb in a humbling 3-0 defeat for us.

Whilst not as weakened a team as Boro put out it has to be said with quite a few current starters in it or coming off the bench it was early in the season and we are now a better outfit and will have our best team out of course with only a few injuries to worry about far as we know.

But Boro are a threat, they've shown they can beat us at Elland Road, and beat us well.

They also would argue I'm sure they are a better side now and the squad is in much better shape.

Current key players such as Tommy Conway, Emmanuel Latte Lath, Finn Azaz, Hayden Hackney, Ben Doak and Dael Fry were not involved or did not start last time we met.

In terms of tactics Michael Carrick is fairly committed to his 4-2-3-1 formation, this hasnt always been the case as Carrick has occasionally switched to a back 3 or a back 5, but he prefers his 4-2-3-1.

That changes in or out of possession with it often becoming a back 3 with one of the full backs tucking in or the holding midfielder when Middlesbrough are in possession.

They play a fluid system with positional rotation and risk a part of the game both in and out of possession.

A risk that has bitten them on occasion with goals going in at the wrong end.

But going forward when it clicks they are very slick, very quick and very effective.

They have the highest xG in the league, the most touches in the opposition box, they are in fact slightly under performing their xG for and against (conceding more than they should and scoring less).

In fact quite a few predicted Championship tables have them top end of the season for this very reason.

They prefer a short passing style similar to ourselves but play with more width with the Boro wingers generally coming less narrow than ours do. This suits them as they do utilise switches of play a lot (twice as much as we do) and whilst not a long ball team they will use it and its accurate (usually over the top) the most accurate long ball passers in the league.

As previously mentioned though this commitment to pretty attacking football has bitten them, they haven't kept a clean sheet in 8 games. They've conceded 22 goals which whilst not awful is statistically on the high side for teams challenging for promotion as Boro expect to be.

Form is good however, 14 points from last 6 games overall, won 2 drawn 2 of the last 4 away and should have beaten Burnley yesterday and have beaten Sheffield United as well.

On the flip side a defeat to our opponents this afternoon Derby and draws vs Preston and Portsmouth have shown the struggles


In terms of key players they have a large array of impressive attacking players in good form.

Playmaker Finn Azaz who plays usually just behind the lone striker has the joint most assists in the league and the 2nd most goals and assists combined with 13 (Championship's top creator overall with most chances created).

Next to him on the right is 19 year old Liverpool wonderkid Ben Doak. An impressive young man, 3rd most assists in the league, 5th most chances created overall and one of the most effective dribblers in the league (5th again).

The intelligence of Azaz and his eye for a pass combined with the pace and directness of his young teammate has proven a fruitful combination for Boro.

And ahead of them they have the option of two of the form strikers in the league.

Emmanuel Latte Lath and Tommy Conway have 15 goals between them.

Neither big strikers but they are mobile and clever, Conway though no shrinking violet is more prone to running in behind and stretching the play, Latte Lath is more keen to hold it up and fight but he is equally capable of running in behind.

So a dangerous side going forward with capable players offensively and not as awful at defending as perhaps it seems at times, but one that is struggling to keep goals out.

For ourselves the usual questions about players.

Rotation?

Gnonto in?
Ramazani?

The big one may be who replaces Firpo vs Ben Doak because get that wrong and that could decide the game.

Last time we played Boro they didn't park the bus but they were happy to let us have the majority of the ball and just smack us in transition, could we see a role reversal?

Would a more pragmatic approach be sensible against a side that can over commit?

Or is that not an approach the Elland Road crowd would accept?

Good build up Cjay

Tough game for us but a lot tougher for Boro, we’re top of the table with an excellent home record so should be 3 points. Resting Gnonto against Derby was a good move and with Amps back on the bench , Ramazani, Wober & Solomon fit again things are coming together nicely for the busy Christmas period.

[pjm2019]

• Wober almost certain to start at LB after his performance today and injury to Firpo

• At least one winger will get rotated for Gnonto - likely James since he played the most minutes. Might rotate both wingers if Rmazani is considered ready to start

• Always the question of rotation up front. But Piroe played well so I expect he'll start

Meslier
Bogle, Rodon, Strujik, Wober
Tanaka, Rothwell
Gnonto, Aarsonson, Ramazani (or Solomon)
Piroe

• Can't see any of Byram, Ampadu, or Schmidt being ready to start

Did Piroe trough the ball ??

[pjm2019]

Did Piroe trough the ball ??

Gnonto has recently been Very disappointing, hope he does not start

[CUSSIE01]

I would start Bamford.

Please tell me, what have Piroe & Joseph have done of late to justify starting?

We need to hold the ball up to stop Boro' continually coming at us on their attacks,

I hope you were in a wind up mood this morning 64’, what has Bamford done in the past year to justify starting apart from sitting on the treatment table due to his bad back from lifting his massive wage packet ?

[1964white]

I hope you were in a wind up mood this morning 64’, what has Bamford done in the past year to justify starting apart from sitting on the treatment table due to his bad back from lifting his massive wage packet ?

First time this season he has been injury free for the last four weeks.

Remember, January to March last season when Paddy was key to that running run, as soon as he got injured, we went to pot again.

Who was holding the ball up, yesterday?

How many shots did Piroe & Joseph have on target against a toothless Derby team?

How many goals have the pair scored recently.

Wober, James & Aaronson were making more controlled movement than our two stooges up front.

Bamford worth a go against a tough Boro' back four, imo!

[CUSSIE01]

First time this season he has been injury free for the last four weeks.

Remember, January to March last season when Paddy was key to that running run, as soon as he got injured, we went to pot again.

Who was holding the ball up, yesterday?

How many shots did Piroe & Joseph have on target against a toothless Derby team?

How many goals have the pair scored recently.

Wober, James & Aaronson were making more controlled movement than our two stooges up front.

Bamford worth a go against a tough Boro' back four, imo!

He’s been injury free for 4 weeks because he hasn’t played, nothing I’d like more than to see Paddy back banging goals in but starting him against a strong physical team like Boro is asking for an injury. If PB was doing anything in training to warrant a start why would DF continue to bring on Joseph who does nothing as sub.
Joseph could be an option to start with his work rate and physicality but not Paddy, just my opinion.

[Sean_Nile]

Middlesbrough as of December 8, 2024, they are in 7th place in the league. They have played 15 matches, winning 6, drawing 4, and losing 5. Their goal difference is +3.

Their highest home attendance so far this season was 26,610 against Swansea City on August 10, 2024. Their biggest win was a 5-1 victory over Luton Town away on November 9, 2024.

Their biggest defeat was a 5-0 loss to Stoke City at home in the EFL Cup on August 27, 2024.

[Jammy 07]

He’s been injury free for 4 weeks because he hasn’t played, nothing I’d like more than to see Paddy back banging goals in but starting him against a strong physical team like Boro is asking for an injury. If PB was doing anything in training to warrant a start why would DF continue to bring on Joseph who does nothing as sub.
Joseph could be an option to start with his work rate and physicality but not Paddy, just my opinion.

Tend to agree that Joseph should be considered for a start against Boro. However 1964 raises a good point about Bamford and if we don't include him after he's had a sustained period of training then we're potentially not utilising our best no' 9 which could prove to be a mistake, so I'd say at some point he also needs a start.

[CUSSIE01]

He maybe needs minutes but no way is he match fit after 76 minutes this season, Boro is not the game to throw him in.

[1964white]

He’s been injury free for 4 weeks because he hasn’t played, nothing I’d like more than to see Paddy back banging goals in but starting him against a strong physical team like Boro is asking for an injury. If PB was doing anything in training to warrant a start why would DF continue to bring on Joseph who does nothing as sub.
Joseph could be an option to start with his work rate and physicality but not Paddy, just my opinion.

I was wrong about Joseph, he held the ball well four times up to the 80th minute.

I'll watch the final 15 minutes later.

[Jammy 07]

I was wrong about Joseph, he held the ball well four times up to the 80th minute.

I'll watch the final 15 minutes later.

Currently I'm not watching our games back again as they're just too tedious but it was clear to see Joseph brings something different up front.

[The Subhuman]

Currently I'm not watching our games back again as they're just too tedious but it was clear to see Joseph brings something different up front.

Joseph is our most complete striker or 9, he brings everything, hold up play, vision, movement, strength and pace and I do think he's a good finisher. Piroe is a hybrid 9/10, Bamford is a lesser Joseph.

Bamford isn't as healthy as last season, he's lost a bit of pace, and his knees are held together with elastic bands. His value to us now is craft from off the bench when needed

[Wes Lee Street]

For me, Joseph starts the next game. And every game. I think Joseph on the field makes goals more likely from Ramazani, Gnonto, Solomon, James, Aaronson, Wober.

Bonus: This strategy makes "goals from Joseph" happen sooner.

Bonus: Piroe off the bench, late in the game, makes Piroe more confident, and renews the Piroe adoration (and songs) from the crowd. Which, in turn, makes Piroe goals, off the bench, "more likely".