We are NOT finishing in the top 2

[weasel]

After we've thrashed Oxford, do we have the same concerns when we roll onto Stoke?

Hopefully not. I am hoping the fact it isn't an early kick off will help a bit. We do seem to struggle a bit more in the early games (Burnley, Blackburn, Preston). Perhaps Ampadu will be in the equation for a starting place for the Stoke match as it is 10 days away and that may lessen our chances of conceding a goal.

I think we are capable of losing to any team in this division, home or away. We just don't seem to create quality chances that our dominance should. It is rare that the opposition keepers have to make lots of save. I think against Preston we had 18 shots and only 4 were on target and I think that is fairly much the norm for us.

Cjay, an occasional poster on this very forum, has made the point on the odd occasion about Farke relying to some degree on individual players but if you put a Pukki and Buendia in this team I think we'd be running away with the league by now. We need to create better chances and we need to get those chances on target.

[weasel]

Different circumstances, resources and situations.

Think most of us knew that at some point Bielsa's style would struggle in the Prem because of how open it could be, how much individual battles mattered and how much less talent we had than basically all our opponents.

Whilst fun and exciting it was time to try something different (tactically I mean we needed to stem the tide somehow)

Farke has effectively the Man City/PSG/Barcelona of the Championship.

Far more resources, talent, quality to use than basically any of the teams we face.

He effectively is in a race, he has a Ferrari, he has a team of very highly paid mechanics and access to parts that are out of reach to the vast majority of his opponents.

Even the parts he discards are used by his opponents like Ayling and Greenwood.

The majority of whom have a collection of Vauxhall Astra diesels and Audi A1s and Skoda Fabia and things like that.

Decent little cars with lower quality mechanics to use and 2nd hand car parts.

Farke has the speed, acceleration, handling, braking far above the vast majority of his opponents and in theory should be able to leave most of them miles behind if he tried.

But he is so terrified of a wheel falling off or going off the track he keeps the handbrake on.

He'd rather take less risks to minimise in his mind the room for error than make full use of the advantages he's been given.

His strategy may work, and his team and fans will be grateful.

But will always be the disappointment that it wasn't as fun and dominant to watch as maybe a braver more risky approach could have been.

Think we all know the Prem if we get to it will be a slog.

This is the opportunity for some fun, entertainment, a chance to enjoy being the team with the best players and whatnot.

And you can tell when we play at home the fans appreciate the results when we win which we tend to do well under Farke our home form is very very good, but the atmosphere is often very meh.

It's a results driven business and if we get promoted Farke will have done his job.

But will always be the feeling that it could have been more fun, it is entertainment after all.

He has a Ferrari but with a lot of parts that don't really fit together and often misfire.

[SG90]

Getting a proven number 9 & 10 is hardly simple pjm.
They dont just hang around on street corners.
And your insistence in relieving Farke of his duties is all very well but who would you replace him with? We are talking January here. Not exactly spoilt for choice.
And dont quote me that its not your job. You keep saying it so come on. Who???

We literally had Bielsa in the Championship, but we supposedly can't do any better than Farke?

[whiteswan]

All the teams around us won again plus Blackburn are now in the mix it's very tight at the top and the gap I hope we might have at this point in the season had not materialised.

Promotion is not looking as nailed on as some predicted imo.

It was never nailed on. Not from me anyway.

[whiteswan]

It was never nailed on. Not from me anyway.

And before anyone comes in calling me a pessimist, how about calling me a realist.
Nailed on remember.....

[malcolmw]

Less than half way through the season ... Because we've had 3 really poor games - in the midst of more really solid ones, therefore putting us in 2nd place, with the best goal difference in the league ... we're not going to finish in the top 2.

We do need to strengthen the squad, especially given injuries, but guaranteed the teams around us would give an arm and a leg to be in our situation right now.

WTF people, get a grip!!!!

[malcolmw]

What have those three achieved?

So Carlos has worked under Marcelo.

We won't be getting Bielsa football under the boring draw specialist Coberan, you can think again!

The other 2 aren't realistic options either. Get f***ing real

[malcolmw]

Hopefully not. I am hoping the fact it isn't an early kick off will help a bit. We do seem to struggle a bit more in the early games (Burnley, Blackburn, Preston). Perhaps Ampadu will be in the equation for a starting place for the Stoke match as it is 10 days away and that may lessen our chances of conceding a goal.

I think we are capable of losing to any team in this division, home or away. We just don't seem to create quality chances that our dominance should. It is rare that the opposition keepers have to make lots of save. I think against Preston we had 18 shots and only 4 were on target and I think that is fairly much the norm for us.

Cjay, an occasional poster on this very forum, has made the point on the odd occasion about Farke relying to some degree on individual players but if you put a Pukki and Buendia in this team I think we'd be running away with the league by now. We need to create better chances and we need to get those chances on target.

Agree
BUT, the real problem for me is poor efficiency behind the striker and in front of the midfield. Aaronson , Gnonto are hard workers but hopeless in the scoring department. They miss far too many scorable chances through lack of composure.

When we are playing grinding games - so mostly away from home - we need those players scoring more often. The striker upfront can get neutralized easier by a home defense, we need more Dan James type goals from some of the others.

[Stonecoldwhite]

Less than half way through the season ... Because we've had 3 really poor games - in the midst of more really solid ones, therefore putting us in 2nd place, with the best goal difference in the league ... we're not going to finish in the top 2.

We do need to strengthen the squad, especially given injuries, but guaranteed the teams around us would give an arm and a leg to be in our situation right now.

WTF people, get a grip!!!!

Exactly.
Perhaps a know all here could name the last team to get promoted that didn't drop points away from home all season?
Btw, don't bother, there isn't one.
Get behind your team children.

[Johnthewhite]

Personally, I want to be going to the football on Saturday afternoon to watch Leeds United versus Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, or Tottenham Hotspur.

I am going on Saturday to watch Leeds United versus Oxford United, not really what I wanted to be doing.

How he gets us there, personally I couldn’t give a f**k, just get us there.

Here,Here
His job is to get us promoted, are we now saying he has to do bit a certain way
Give me strength

[whiteinfrance]

The other 2 aren't realistic options either. Get f***ing real

2 points a game - relegation form!

And I reckon we have the easiest game of the top bunch on saturday

[Stonecoldwhite]

Personally, I want to be going to the football on Saturday afternoon to watch Leeds United versus Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, or Tottenham Hotspur.

I am going on Saturday to watch Leeds United versus Oxford United, not really what I wanted to be doing.

How he gets us there, personally I couldn’t give a f**k, just get us there.

And then the Whining Minnies will be complaining that we're not on a par with the teams that can and have spent millions.
And they expect us to be on a par with them within 12 months, spoilt bratz that are used to stamping their feet at mumsie at Christmas and birthday time, no doubt brought up in the 90's. Our previous manager got us competing on a shoestring budget, but like EVERY single team that loses their key components (Rodri?) he struggled.
Martin - Sacked.
Ipswich - Relegation looming.
Leicester - Manager sacked.
When will the children ever learn.
You do not become a top Premier team overnight, and to keep swapping and changing managers isn't the answer, ask ManU, ask ALL the other 'yo-yo' clubs.
ANY new manager now will not be able to work with certain players, he will have his own ideas that might not suit some, he will have to start taking an axe to our already bare squad, he will have to shop around in bargain basement to find some players.
At EFC they hired Ancellotti, what could he do with their squad, but then he goes to Real Madrid, now is that the manager that is s**t?

[Cjay]

Perhaps you feel Klopp could do better with these players.
Any manager in the world now would be limited to what he could achieve with them.
But you just don't see that, no?

Yes I think Jurgen Klopp with his Bundesliga, Premier League, Champions League, FA Cup, German Cup, Super Cup winning medal experience would do a better job than Daniel Farke funnily enough.

I also think Bielsa who got promotion relying on Tyler Roberts and Jamie Shackleton to pad out his squad would as well.

The poor squad argument in a league where the team 3rd is using players Farke had last season and barely used and 2 of the other teams in the top 6 use players Farke didn't need or want last season is barking mad.

You can blame referees, weather, pitch, voodoo, but the squad argument is the most far fetched of all and must have rival Championship fans reading it pishing themselves with laughter.

All I actually said is I felt if Farke played braver football he could do better

[Cjay]

Personally, I want to be going to the football on Saturday afternoon to watch Leeds United versus Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, or Tottenham Hotspur.

I am going on Saturday to watch Leeds United versus Oxford United, not really what I wanted to be doing.

How he gets us there, personally I couldn’t give a f**k, just get us there.

Fair enough but my post seems to be getting the backs of some up.

All I actually meant was I think if Farke was braver given the talent we have given the difference in quality between our players and basically everyone else then I think we'd do better.

When you are sat in the stand having to nudge the bloke next to you awake (I joke I joke) and we are passing the ball between the cbs for 30 minutes and the crowd is quiet as church mice because they have nothing to shout about do you honestly never think Bielsa for example would have us 3,4 up by now?

Because he'd never let the opponent rest.

He was doing that with Tyler Roberts and Jamie Shackleton and even sometimes Jordan Stevens to rely on from the bench.

With basically midtable Championship players, Farke has some of the best players in every position in the league, but he'd rather control than go for the throat.

[Stonecoldwhite]

Then stamp your feet at Mummy and not here.
The manager has a whole season and a tough winter to nurse his players through, holding onto possession, making the ball do the work, making the opponents chase it, well, just give it some thought.
At the moment we are only 3 injuries away from a crisis, and no, i'm not sure Klopp could do a lot better with these players, the Championship is a long grind of a season, and not a 'i want it all, and i want it now' season.

[weasel]

Fair enough but my post seems to be getting the backs of some up.

All I actually meant was I think if Farke was braver given the talent we have given the difference in quality between our players and basically everyone else then I think we'd do better.

When you are sat in the stand having to nudge the bloke next to you awake (I joke I joke) and we are passing the ball between the cbs for 30 minutes and the crowd is quiet as church mice because they have nothing to shout about do you honestly never think Bielsa for example would have us 3,4 up by now?

Because he'd never let the opponent rest.

He was doing that with Tyler Roberts and Jamie Shackleton and even sometimes Jordan Stevens to rely on from the bench.

With basically midtable Championship players, Farke has some of the best players in every position in the league, but he'd rather control than go for the throat.

So does being braver mean that we'd suddenly get more shots on target? We had 18 shots on Saturday, just 4 on target and needed an own goal. So if we go 'braver' perhaps the Bielsa route, we say create 36 chances, 8 on target maybe get 1 or 2 goals. Flip side would be that we probably give the opposition more chances and as shown we would likely concede. So for me braver doesn't solve the problem.

I loved the Bielsa period but we didn't kill teams off despite playing the brave football. If we won 2-0 it would be that we scored our second goal in the last minute on a counter attack. It was a different way of football but the same outcome, loads of chances for us, not many for the opposition and several times frustrating results and hardly any matches that we won with ease, scoreline wise.

So for me I think with Bielsa in charge different footaball same results.

It would however be interesting to see how Pablo would have done under Farke.

[Barlow Boy]

Here,Here
His job is to get us promoted, are we now saying he has to do bit a certain way
Give me strength

I don’t know what others think John, but I just want him to get us promoted.

I’m not particularly bothered how he does it.

[1964white]

With basically midtable Championship players, Farke has some of the best players in every position in the league, but he'd rather control than go for the throat.

You say the best!

Please tell me what have our players achieved individually prior to playing under Farke?

As a group, it appears to be the best, but apart from a few odd moments.

Gnonto scoring against Manure, Joseph a brace in the cup, Soloman coming down a league because of a serious injury, Ampadu endured three relegations, Rodon shown nothing of note previously, etc

What makes them better than the championship?

[weasel]

I don’t know what others think John, but I just want him to get us promoted.

I’m not particularly bothered how he does it.

If promoted I would expect the matches to be more exciting in the same vein as the Boro and Swansea matches. It is hardly like the rest of the Prem would be parking the bus against us. In the championship when teams have 'played' against us they have been cracking matches.

[Cjay]

So does being braver mean that we'd suddenly get more shots on target? We had 18 shots on Saturday, just 4 on target and needed an own goal. So if we go 'braver' perhaps the Bielsa route, we say create 36 chances, 8 on target maybe get 1 or 2 goals. Flip side would be that we probably give the opposition more chances and as shown we would likely concede. So for me braver doesn't solve the problem.

I loved the Bielsa period but we didn't kill teams off despite playing the brave football. If we won 2-0 it would be that we scored our second goal in the last minute on a counter attack. It was a different way of football but the same outcome, loads of chances for us, not many for the opposition and several times frustrating results and hardly any matches that we won with ease, scoreline wise.

So for me I think with Bielsa in charge different footaball same results.

It would however be interesting to see how Pablo would have done under Farke.

The Bielsa team created more chances, had a higher xG etc than Farke team does.

As you yourself have said we rarely create good chances, the Bielsa team did, we were just appalling at finishing.

Bamford broke literal records for the awfulness of his finishing, Piroe would have had a field day.

The xG under Bielsa was massively underperformed.

And despite the feeling that the Farke control may give us a more solid defence the difference is absolutely minimal.

Bielsa side had an xG against of about 0.8, currently at about 0.7, its absolutely minimal.

With the talent Farke has available we have all the tools to blow teams away.