Who is the best manager in the championship?

[Cjay]

But the point is its a tenuous argument to suggest Corberan is better than Farke.
If we measure success by promotion alone.
Jay 2?
There is only 1
Not really fussed either way.
I am interested to see how Farke gets on next season.

It's the same argument used to praise Bielsa . . .

Achieving more than should be expected with what he has.

I shall refer to you as Jay 2 from now on

And Weasel Kenneth 2,3,4,5 . . . . How many accounts is it now

[Jammy 07]

We're going to need some sort of consistency of positive results next season as going on long runs without winning just kills everything and becomes a nasty habit. Win one, lose one, draw one, lose another one and then win one would be absolutely fine and likely see us achieve 40 plus points.

[Jaydog]

Why? If this season it didn't count he had the strongest roster by a mile why shouldn't it count next season when he has one of the weaker ones.. It's context no one seems to understand. winning stuff when your top dog by a distance v over acheiving with a much weaker whatever is context. Corberan has been very successful so far in his career even without the trophies..

Nope. Dont agree.
If you are in the Championship then promotion is god. Nothing else is relevant.
How many championship to PL promotions does Corberan have?
How come he hasn’t transcended the lack of investment.

[Jaydog]

It's the same argument used to praise Bielsa . . .

Achieving more than should be expected with what he has.

I shall refer to you as Jay 2 from now on

And Weasel Kenneth 2,3,4,5 . . . . How many accounts is it now

I’m not interested in Bielsa.
My point is exactly how many promotions does Corberan have v Farke.
Its 3-0 isnt it.
Am I wrong?
If you construct an argument to say Corberan is better based on how much the squad is worth, problems etc then I point you towards some fairly crucial evidence. 3-0.
I think 3-0 wins.

Jaydog lack of research may come back to bite him

[Jammy 07]

PL this season;

Everton 10 wins...13th
West Ham 10 wins...15th
Man U 10 wins...16th

Wolves lost 19...14th
Spurs lost 21...17th

Absolutely crazy how few wins you need plus how many losses you can incur and still stay up.

[Cjay]

Nope. Dont agree.
If you are in the Championship then promotion is god. Nothing else is relevant.
How many championship to PL promotions does Corberan have?
How come he hasn’t transcended the lack of investment.

If you were in a car race driving a 25 year old Ford bought for £1000 pounds and having spent £1000 on it whilst your opponents were driving.
A £250,000 new Lamborghini
A £750,000 new Ferrari
And a £1million new Bugatti.

You finished 3rd of 4th beating the Lamborghini and the £1million Bugatti won then has the Bugatti driver done a better job than you?

[Jaydog]

If you were in a car race driving a 25 year old Ford bought for £1000 pounds and having spent £1000 on it whilst your opponents were driving.
A £250,000 new Lamborghini
A £750,000 new Ferrari
And a £1million new Bugatti.

You finished 3rd of 4th beating the Lamborghini and the £1million Bugatti won then has the Bugatti driver done a better job than you?

How many promotions does the Ford have.

[Cjay]

I’m not interested in Bielsa.
My point is exactly how many promotions does Corberan have v Farke.
Its 3-0 isnt it.
Am I wrong?
If you construct an argument to say Corberan is better based on how much the squad is worth, problems etc then I point you towards some fairly crucial evidence. 3-0.
I think 3-0 wins.

Jaydog lack of research may come back to bite him

Then by that logic Parker who has 3 promotions out of 3 as opposed to 3 out of 5 for Farke and has a higher overall Championship ppg is a better manager than Farke. . . .

Based on your logic

Context is vital otherwise we have to say Neil Warnock is the best manager in EFL history . . . . .

[Cjay]

How many promotions does the Ford have.

0 because its opponents are far more expensive have far more resources at their disposal and are simply far faster because money has allowed them to be

[Jaydog]

Then by that logic Parker who has 3 promotions out of 3 as opposed to 3 out of 5 for Farke and has a higher overall Championship ppg is a better manager than Farke. . . .

Based on your logic

I’m ok with the Parker logic.
It’s possible to construct a valid argument that Parker is better than Farke. No issues with that.
And also that they both are better equipped for the championship than the PL.
However the bleating Corberan argument is just nonsense to me.
Poor little Carlos with Zero promotions.
Your argument is based on giving the same tools to Corberan & he automatically succeeds.
Odd that no one has given him that chance.
I’m pretty sure any owner with wedge will be looking at Parker & Farke before Corberan

[Jaydog]

0 because its opponents are far more expensive have far more resources at their disposal and are simply far faster because money has allowed them to be

How many managers can you apply that to in the modern game.
Quite a few.
How do you distinguish between the two.
Success by money.
Success by talent.
Or a bit of both.

[Cjay]

I’m ok with the Parker logic.
It’s possible to construct a valid argument that Parker is better than Farke. No issues with that.
And also that they both are better equipped for the championship than the PL.
However the bleating Corberan argument is just nonsense to me.
Poor little Carlos with Zero promotions.
Your argument is based on giving the same tools to Corberan & he automatically succeeds.
Odd that no one has given him that chance.
I’m pretty sure any owner with wedge will be looking at Parker & Farke before Corberan

Is based on the fact he has made the most out of very little at 3 clubs.

That suggests a manager able to adapt to difficult situations immediately and make the most out of what he has?

Surely you can see that is clearly an extremely important skill?

No guarantee with any manager that he can automatically succeed but Corberan doing the job he has at Valencia will make him extremely highly rated in Europe.

[Cjay]

How many managers can you apply that to in the modern game.
Quite a few.
How do you distinguish between the two.
Success by money.
Success by talent.
Or a bit of both.

Clubs with more money are more likely to succeed than those without?

In basically every league a league position and wage budget will track very close together.

If you are a manager able to buck that trend you have done a very good job imo.

Bielsa did it with us for example 1st Premier League season.

Knutsen does it regularly in Norway.

I've said before I always value that sort of achievement over titles for those with the resources to do it.

Not to say managers with the most money don't deserve credit if they sustain success because as has been shown many times money doesn't guarantee anything long term.

But over a season money matters in basically every league.

Which is why I like managers who overachieve.

Always have (pre Farke yes) a lot of the managers I've praised have been that sort.

[Jaydog]

Clubs with more money are more likely to succeed than those without?

In basically every league a league position and wage budget will track very close together.

If you are a manager able to buck that trend you have done a very good job imo.

Bielsa did it with us for example 1st Premier League season.

Knutsen does it regularly in Norway.

I've said before I always value that sort of achievement over titles for those with the resources to do it.

Not to say managers with the most money don't deserve credit if they sustain success because as has been shown many times money doesn't guarantee anything long term.

But over a season money matters in basically every league.

Which is why I like managers who overachieve.

Always have (pre Farke yes) a lot of the managers I've praised have been that sort.

Overachievers who achieved nothing.
Pressure comes with money.
You can argue it’s a free hit for the underfunded.
You can argue theres far more pressure with the expensive squad.
Can you list Corberans achievements please.
He has won what exactly.

[Jammy 07]

Clubs with more money are more likely to succeed than those without?

In basically every league a league position and wage budget will track very close together.

If you are a manager able to buck that trend you have done a very good job imo.

Bielsa did it with us for example 1st Premier League season.

Knutsen does it regularly in Norway.

I've said before I always value that sort of achievement over titles for those with the resources to do it.

Not to say managers with the most money don't deserve credit if they sustain success because as has been shown many times money doesn't guarantee anything long term.

But over a season money matters in basically every league.

Which is why I like managers who overachieve.

Always have (pre Farke yes) a lot of the managers I've praised have been that sort.

Winning titles and lifting trophies though is a special skill.

Man U for example if they lift the Europa League trophy will have won cups in each of the last 3 seasons despite being absolutely rubbish in the League during all of those seasons. It's that different mentality as a club, plus the managers they appoint that still sets them apart. If Tottenham win it will be because they have manager who has a track record of lifting trophies and knows how to get it done as without him the players haven't been able to win anything.

Arsenal on the other hand have spent fortunes but yet haven't come close to silverware because the manager can't get them over the line to become winners.

In the Championship it's similar Farke has the skillset to win the title and Parker doesn't. Coberan does brilliantly to get results, but not constantly enough to achieve promotion, or lift a trophy, so until he does we won't know if he has what to takes.

[Cjay]

Overachievers who achieved nothing.
Pressure comes with money.
You can argue it’s a free hit for the underfunded.
You can argue theres far more pressure with the expensive squad.
Can you list Corberans achievements please.
He has won what exactly.

Yes absolutely money increases pressure because historically those with money are successful clubs.

That is where the skill is, handling the pressure over multiple seasons is a skill in itself.

That's what separates the greats from one hit wonders.

To get the money you usually have to sustain success.

Corberan has won nothing, do you think Valencia fans a historically big club want him sacked for that?

Or do they appreciate his success relative to the situation

[Cjay]

Winning titles and lifting trophies though is a special skill.

Man U for example if they lift the Europa League trophy will have won cups in each of the last 3 seasons despite being absolutely rubbish in the League during all of those seasons. It's that different mentality as a club, plus the managers they appoint that still sets them apart. If Tottenham win it will be because they have manager who has a track record of lifting trophies and knows how to get it done as without him the players haven't been able to win anything.

Arsenal on the other hand have spent fortunes but yet haven't come close to silverware because the manager can't get them over the line to become winners.

In the Championship it's similar Farke has the skillset to win the title and Parker doesn't. Coberan does brilliantly to get results, but not constantly enough to achieve promotion, or lift a trophy, so until he does we won't know if he has what to takes.

All I'm doing is saying context is important when judging managers.

Trophy or not Tottenham fans will still consider Ange one of the worst managers they've had in modern history (they are having this discussion on their forum now).

Because they shouldn't be anywhere near relegation with the squad and budget they have.

A trophy won't change the fact Manure fans are discussing sacking Amorim whose got a worse Premier league record than Paul Jewell who was in charge of that awful Derby side.

Money or lack off brings expectations or considerations.

[Jammy 07]

All I'm doing is saying context is important when judging managers.

Trophy or not Tottenham fans will still consider Ange one of the worst managers they've had in modern history (they are having this discussion on their forum now).

Because they shouldn't be anywhere near relegation with the squad and budget they have.

A trophy won't change the fact Manure fans are discussing sacking Amorim whose got a worse Premier league record than Paul Jewell who was in charge of that awful Derby side.

Money or lack off brings expectations or considerations.

Probably a different discussion about why fans would rather celebrate finishing 4th than winning a major European trophy. Especially as both result in qualifying for the next seasons Champions League but only one of those outcomes lasts forever in your clubs history and is marked on their honours board.

[Cjay]

Probably a different discussion about why fans would rather celebrate finishing 4th than winning a major European trophy. Especially as both result in qualifying for the next seasons Champions League but only one of those outcomes lasts forever in your clubs history and is marked on their honours board.

I'd imagine they will celebrate the trophy and be pleased?

Doesn't change that overall both managers have been extremely awful in charge of two of the richest clubs in the world.

[weasel]

It's the same argument used to praise Bielsa . . .

Achieving more than should be expected with what he has.

I shall refer to you as Jay 2 from now on

And Weasel Kenneth 2,3,4,5 . . . . How many accounts is it now

I like how you try to deflect attention from yourselves by suggesting I have multiple accounts!

And kudos for your usual way of not debating when someone completely outfoxes you like Sean Nile did recently.