Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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News Article Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Just over a week to go until Leeds United kick off their new season, back in the Premier League where they belong, with anticipation, excitement and optimism in the air. But now the fun sponges with their supercomputers have had their say, and it’s not looking good for Leeds United. The data science teams at both Opta and The Telegraph have crunched the numbers and placed Leeds firmly at the wrong end of the table.

Brace yourself for the worst news. The Telegraph’s data science team have churned through years of stats, form guides, and contextual factors, everything from attacking and defensive metrics to recent results, before unleashing an XGBoost model to simulate the season 10,000 times. The outcome? A perilous forecast for all three newly promoted sides, with Leeds suffering the most.

Daniel Farke’s side are handed a staggering 92% probability of relegation, with the simulations dooming them to finish bottom on a measly 18 points. Joining them in the drop zone are Burnley, with an 80% probability of going down on 22 points, and Sunderland, predicted to have a 59% chance of relegation on 25 points. The Telegraph’s numbers also warn of troubled waters for Everton and Wolves, who could be dragged into the scrap for survival.





Opta’s model, similar to The Telegraph’s, predicts match outcomes using odds, its own Power Rankings, and historical and recent team performances. It runs thousands of simulated seasons, factoring in the strength of opponents, and counts how often each team finishes in each position. Thousands of scenarios later, Leeds still find themselves staring down the wrong end of the league table.

Now for a sliver of good news. Opta’s simulations have Leeds winning the Premier League once in every 10,000 runs. That’s 0.01%, about the same odds as finding a winning scratch card in your back pocket. Beyond that miracle, Opta’s numbers predict a 48.1% chance of relegation, with Leeds finishing 19th on 36 points. Sunderland fare worse, finishing bottom on 31 points with a 66.4% chance of relegation, while Burnley’s survival hopes sit at 54.1% with a predicted 37 points.





Opta’s table is tighter than The Telegraph’s, with Manchester United, Everton, Spurs, Fulham, West Ham United and Wolves all struggling below the 50-point mark. Yet both models agree on one thing: the promoted sides are in trouble. And history backs them up with 60% of newly promoted clubs have gone straight back down in the past five seasons, a figure that has hit 100% over the past two.

If Leeds want to survive, they’ll have to defy the numbers. One thing in our favour, they’ve been promoted to the top flight seven times and have never been immediately relegated. They’ve built a solid foundation this summer, but with the transfer window ticking down, they need that final spark of stardust to beat the supercomputers and prove the doubters wrong.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation

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To quote an old Elland Road favourite, who still beats AI .....



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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Cobblers
92% chance of relegation means we are about 11-1 to stay up.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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I declare my love for Saint Daniel and I can shoehorn him in to any conversation.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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A better read. They’ve also got Brentford in a more realistic position, I think they will struggle this season.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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my brain tells me that too!
'
"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Out of interest, and I’ve been thinking about this for a while - if the unthinkable happens and the three promoted clubs are relegated for the third season in a row, does it set alarm bells ringing in the corridors of power at the FA?

It clearly undermines the concept of the Premier League as a competitive entity.

Does it highlight the unfairness of PSR limitations being heavily stacked against promoted sides to a point where those in power might feel the need to address the issue?

Is the evolutionary bias in favour of the big six clubs, and thereafter the rest of the established sides, likely to be a cause for concern, or will no one give a toss as long as Sky and the other global tv franchises continue to cough up for the rights?
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Carrick Dave wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 10:54 pm Out of interest, and I’ve been thinking about this for a while - if the unthinkable happens and the three promoted clubs are relegated for the third season in a row, does it set alarm bells ringing in the corridors of power at the FA?

It clearly undermines the concept of the Premier League as a competitive entity.

Does it highlight the unfairness of PSR limitations being heavily stacked against promoted sides to a point where those in power might feel the need to address the issue?

Is the evolutionary bias in favour of the big six clubs, and thereafter the rest of the established sides, likely to be a cause for concern, or will no one give a toss as long as Sky and the other global tv franchises continue to cough up for the rights?
Its a good question, whatever the Premier league clubs as a collective think is what holds sway.

And seeing that currently 12 of them have American owners I wonder if eventually the leaning will be towards a break away closed system as we see across the pond.
'
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Irish Ian wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 11:04 pm Its a good question, whatever the Premier league clubs as a collective think is what holds sway.

And seeing that currently 12 of them have American owners I wonder if eventually the leaning will be towards a break away closed system as we see across the pond.
The voting process definitely leans towards self protection, that is making things extremely difficult for new clubs coming in
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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It is a lot of nonsense. Without being disrespectful to Burnley why would they be more likely to survive? They have been relegated in their last 2 seasons in the top flight. People, including supposed expert pundits on Talskport, go on about their great defensive record and how it gives them a solid platform yet either have disregarded the fact (or not done any research) that they have lost their keeper, both centrebacks, left back and defensive midfielder. They will be going into the season with a completely new back 6 (keeper, defence and DM) as it is likely Kyle Walker will replace the only player from their backline to still be there (Connor Roberts). Does it get any harder than that? If Scott Parker somehow keeps them up then it will be an amazing achievement. That was their strength last season and it is gone. Their attacking threat was often almost non-existent last season, so many 0-0 draws, So if they couldn't scrape 1-0 wins last season against championship sides then how likely will they be able to do it in the prem even if they somehow replicate their defensive solidity.

It is all heavily biased because of the last 2 seasons. However that is because the relegated teams were awful as their ridiculously low combined points tally showed. If a team had even got 30 points this last season then Man U and Spurs would have been sh*tting themselves. In the last 2 seasons we saw Burnley and Southampton sticking rigifly to tactics that were clearly not working and made them weaker. We saw Leicester sack a manager that had made them competitive and hire an unsuited rookie. We also saw most fight from the 2 teams who weren't far removed from playing in League 1. They gave it more of a fight but ultimatelythey had gone up to soon and were too weak (as shown spectaculalrly with Luton then getting relegated from the Championship).

Our loss in the play-off final may actually have been a blessing in disguise. Whilst we lost Rutter, Gray and Summerville I think the extra year in the championship saw us develop into more of a team. I think if we'd gone up we'd have probably come straight back down even with Rutter, Summerville and Gray in the side.
Cjay wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 4:23 pm I've pretended to support a team that's been crap for most of my life as part of a long term plan
Victor_Notts-17 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2026 7:03 pm Did you post them because there's something wrong with your brain
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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The Opta supercomputer, a device generally regarded as the most statistically-minded object in the known universe, had been quietly calculating Premier League outcomes with the serene arrogance of something that has never been wrong.

Unfortunately, during a late-night data refresh, it accidentally ingested a corrupted spreadsheet from the Yorkshire Council’s “Annual Ferret Racing League Results,” which it mistook for advanced tactical metrics.

The computer reasoned that if a ferret named Mr Whiskers could achieve a win ratio of 94%, then surely Willie Gnonto could score from the halfway line while blindfolded. It also quietly reclassified Elland Road as a UNESCO World Heritage Site, and put a halt to any planned redevelopment

Naturally, this caused some confusion among humans, who are famously less adept at accepting events that make no sense whatsoever. Pundits on late-night football shows began earnestly debating whether time itself might have been altered by Daniel Farke’s half-time team talks.

Manchester City lodged an official complaint with the FA, claiming the league table was “mathematically impossible,” to which the supercomputer replied that impossibility was merely “a temporary statistical inconvenience.”

By the end of the season, according to the computer, which had started to develop a faintly smug personality, Leeds were crowned champions with 100 points, having beaten Arsenal twice on the same day and retroactively won a match they hadn’t even played.

The supercomputer then politely switched itself off, explaining it had already simulated the next season, and Leeds had won that too.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Outside bet on Mr Whiskers to win the Premier League then!
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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The Telegraph Data Science team. Interesting concept …. If it exists.

The aggregation of betting odds across the bookies has us 18th
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

Post by DDB220 »

I pay no attention to computer predictions, simply because the algorithms cannot take into account many of factors that determine outcomes. I.e Team spirit, 12th man, injuries, individual player form and condition.

I expect this season will be a slog with many meltdown posts, but I have confidence we can get 17th.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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weasel wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 12:59 am It is a lot of nonsense. Without being disrespectful to Burnley why would they be more likely to survive? They have been relegated in their last 2 seasons in the top flight. People, including supposed expert pundits on Talskport, go on about their great defensive record and how it gives them a solid platform yet either have disregarded the fact (or not done any research) that they have lost their keeper, both centrebacks, left back and defensive midfielder. They will be going into the season with a completely new back 6 (keeper, defence and DM) as it is likely Kyle Walker will replace the only player from their backline to still be there (Connor Roberts). Does it get any harder than that? If Scott Parker somehow keeps them up then it will be an amazing achievement. That was their strength last season and it is gone. Their attacking threat was often almost non-existent last season, so many 0-0 draws, So if they couldn't scrape 1-0 wins last season against championship sides then how likely will they be able to do it in the prem even if they somehow replicate their defensive solidity.

It is all heavily biased because of the last 2 seasons. However that is because the relegated teams were awful as their ridiculously low combined points tally showed. If a team had even got 30 points this last season then Man U and Spurs would have been sh*tting themselves. In the last 2 seasons we saw Burnley and Southampton sticking rigifly to tactics that were clearly not working and made them weaker. We saw Leicester sack a manager that had made them competitive and hire an unsuited rookie. We also saw most fight from the 2 teams who weren't far removed from playing in League 1. They gave it more of a fight but ultimatelythey had gone up to soon and were too weak (as shown spectaculalrly with Luton then getting relegated from the Championship).

Our loss in the play-off final may actually have been a blessing in disguise. Whilst we lost Rutter, Gray and Summerville I think the extra year in the championship saw us develop into more of a team. I think if we'd gone up we'd have probably come straight back down even with Rutter, Summerville and Gray in the side.
It is 'interesting come 'worrying how our club are going about things, like us they must see what Burnley and Sunderland are doing, and with that in mind they know they have to act to move our squad from a Championship one to one that can compete in the Premier.

I say 'interesting because if they find 3 attacking players to add to what they've already done before the window closes and they are similar to what they've hopefully done in say Stach for example, that is to say - young, good future prospect, looks like he's 'ready to go, fits right in, then i for one would think they've gone about it the right way, and we're giving our manager the best shot we can and we're hopefully ready to go to win that bottom 6 battle coming up.

The 'worrying part comes - if we don't add to our attacking options.

Like you say - Go about it in the correct manner, don't panic buy and just buy anything, do due diligence and all will be good.

But please to God hurry up, i'm panicking like crazy here :)

Btw, I agree, if instead of 3 new players arriving now, you handed us back Rutter, Summerville and Gray and asked are we now strong enough to stay up, my answer would be a resounding 'NO.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Carrick Dave wrote: ↑Tue Aug 12, 2025 10:54 pm Out of interest, and I’ve been thinking about this for a while - if the unthinkable happens and the three promoted clubs are relegated for the third season in a row, does it set alarm bells ringing in the corridors of power at the FA?

It clearly undermines the concept of the Premier League as a competitive entity.

Does it highlight the unfairness of PSR limitations being heavily stacked against promoted sides to a point where those in power might feel the need to address the issue?

Is the evolutionary bias in favour of the big six clubs, and thereafter the rest of the established sides, likely to be a cause for concern, or will no one give a toss as long as Sky and the other global tv franchises continue to cough up for the rights?
The latter.

As long as the money is rolling in who gives a duck in their opinion...... And it is..... Fairness, sporting conduct..... Its not predictable. Investors and marketing like predictable.

Fans don't eventually but it'll take a few more years to put people off.... Bit like what happened to f1 when their viewers hip crashed due to it being a procession and not a competition.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Money, Money,Money. As long as its rolling in the PL wont worry about 3 Championship teams not being able to hold their own in the top division.
If all 3 teams do go back down again this season it will be cause for lots of debate. Plenty of column inches and plenty of crap being spoken from all sorts of people BUT nothing will change for the time being.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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Shando wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 8:11 am It is 'interesting come 'worrying how our club are going about things, like us they must see what Burnley and Sunderland are doing, and with that in mind they know they have to act to move our squad from a Championship one to one that can compete in the Premier.

I say 'interesting because if they find 3 attacking players to add to what they've already done before the window closes and they are similar to what they've hopefully done in say Stach for example, that is to say - young, good future prospect, looks like he's 'ready to go, fits right in, then i for one would think they've gone about it the right way, and we're giving our manager the best shot we can and we're hopefully ready to go to win that bottom 6 battle coming up.

The 'worrying part comes - if we don't add to our attacking options.

Like you say - Go about it in the correct manner, don't panic buy and just buy anything, do due diligence and all will be good.

But please to God hurry up, i'm panicking like crazy here :)

Btw, I agree, if instead of 3 new players arriving now, you handed us back Rutter, Summerville and Gray and asked are we now strong enough to stay up, my answer would be a resounding 'NO.
We've just signed DCL.......

Out for 3 months last year..... Massive injuries last few years.

Bang average at best when fit.

I'd say that if he's the marquee striker signing (we had Rodrigo last time) then the super computer is likely right.

The algorithms that work out stuff like this are unreliable but give a good indication. Normally they are there or there abouts and would say that both Burnley and Sunderland have far stronger forward lines at present.

Sunderland in for Dovbyk while we're in for DCL ends in relegation for us.
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Re: Leeds United nailed on for relegation according to the supercomputers

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ElKapitan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 13, 2025 1:45 pm We've just signed DCL.......

Out for 3 months last year..... Massive injuries last few years.

Bang average at best when fit.

I'd say that if he's the marquee striker signing (we had Rodrigo last time) then the super computer is likely right.

The algorithms that work out stuff like this are unreliable but give a good indication. Normally they are there or there abouts and would say that both Burnley and Sunderland have far stronger forward lines at present.

Sunderland in for Dovbyk while we're in for DCL ends in relegation for us.
1. Don't worry he's cost nothing, just imagine he happens to stay fit !
2. He's a lot better player than 'bang average. Highlight reels aren't much use because they obviously just show that (highlights) but from his reels you can actually see the type of good all round striker game he has, he's not a one trick pony and will distress defenders, gets stuck in, puts himself about all across the line (which can be a nightmare in itself for defenders) and his scoring record is not shabby at all considering he's been at a struggling club for the most part, He will score goals.
3. Go through who is available to us if all is to be believed like Muniz etc, they're still a gamble, this is less of one for nothing!
4. I don't think we're finished yet.
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