BATES OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gino 1959]

A lot of all or nothing extremism going round.

Warnock is a good appointment. Bates deserves credit for this. Equally he deserves blame for the many terrible things he has done and probably will do to our club. Blind hate and opposition does none of us credit.

Let's applaud the few good things (if we think they are good) that Ken Bates does. Who knows, it might encourage him.

It ain't blind hate - I know what he did to the Irish people. He could turn himself into Mother Theresa and LUFC into the biggest club on the planet and I still would not forgive him for this.

[white.riot]

Armley and Jed, you're BOTH right! Just because Bates has done the right thing for LUFC for a change doesn't excuse the mis-management over the last seven years, nor should it quieten the calls for greater transparency and positive involvement with fans, but the appointment of Warnock has at last shown some ambition and perhaps a recognition that a business model based on building club first, team second is deeply flawed.

Bates' intent should become apparent in the summer when, irrespective of which league we're in, he's going to have to back the manager in the transfer market to either keep us in the PL (unlikely, but not impossible) or assemble a side capable of getting us there. If he fails to do this, then the Bates Out campaign will gather fresh impetus, and rightly so. Until then, perhaps an 'entente cordial' is the best way forward whilst we see how the cards fall over the next 5 or 6 months. MOT!!!

Any chance that the campaign might produce a viable alternative to Bates when hostilities recommence ? Its true that there are better chairman around than Bates but securing one is the hard part, securing anyone with pots of money who hasn't broken one of the commandments laid down by the 'I'll never forgive him' group of posters is nigh on impossible I reckon. Most money men would fail the 'fit and proper person test' applied by the 'never forgiven' group.

[lufc1304]

Any chance that the campaign might produce a viable alternative to Bates when hostilities recommence ? Its true that there are better chairman around than Bates but securing one is the hard part, securing anyone with pots of money who hasn't broken one of the commandments laid down by the 'I'll never forgive him' group of posters is nigh on impossible I reckon. Most money men would fail the 'fit and proper person test' applied by the 'never forgiven' group.

Valid point WR, and I don't claim to be able to offer a viable alternative. TBH I think a majority of fans could probably put up with Bates if they felt he had the best interests of LUFC at heart. To date, this has not been apparent. Spending on the infrastructure to the detriment of the primary product does not make sound business sense to me. A successful team will generate increased revenues which could then be used to upgrade facilities. A Gucci stadium with a Primark team ain't going to generate much income, that's a no-brainer. Make the product on offer attractive to your customers and increased revenues will follow. I think that's the gist of most anti-Bates arguments, the percieved lack of investment in the football team. That is, after all, any club's bread and butter.

The appointment of Warnock is hopefully the beginning of an alignment between fans' and owner/chairman's aspirations for our club. Time will tell. MOT!!

[Martyn]

Any chance that the campaign might produce a viable alternative to Bates when hostilities recommence ? Its true that there are better chairman around than Bates but securing one is the hard part, securing anyone with pots of money who hasn't broken one of the commandments laid down by the 'I'll never forgive him' group of posters is nigh on impossible I reckon. Most money men would fail the 'fit and proper person test' applied by the 'never forgiven' group.

I wonder how many of the posters who think your way, who think that those of us who despise Bates should forgive and forget, would apply that principle to Peter Ridsdale?

Bates has, throughout the last 60 years, done far worse things to far more people than Ridsdale ever did - would you be delighted to have him back as our chairman?

[Emsley]

I wonder how many of the posters who think your way, who think that those of us who despise Bates should forgive and forget, would apply that principle to Peter Ridsdale?

Bates has, throughout the last 60 years, done far worse things to far more people than Ridsdale ever did - would you be delighted to have him back as our chairman?

Easy guilford you might catch white riot out but he will agree with you before you get a chance to do that.

[white.riot]

I wonder how many of the posters who think your way, who think that those of us who despise Bates should forgive and forget, would apply that principle to Peter Ridsdale?

Bates has, throughout the last 60 years, done far worse things to far more people than Ridsdale ever did - would you be delighted to have him back as our chairman?

We have our best chairman since Wilkos days. For some strange reason we let everyone in between get away with murder. Suddenly, out of the blue, we take up arms against a chairman with Chelsea in his DNA. I smell a rat

Let any self employed poster who has never taken cash and not declared it for tax purposes or any other poster who has paid in cash knowing tax would not be paid throw the first stone I say. And anyone who doesn't swipe their Oyster card is having a laugh surely

[white.riot]

Easy guilford you might catch white riot out but he will agree with you before you get a chance to do that.

I'm not sure why you are trying to catch me out. My position on Bates is dead simple. Best we've had in years. Bricks and mortar are different to players and improving the first doesn't prevent spending money on the second although loans for bricks are easy, loans for players are hard [Larry wasted millions anall].

There are better chairman - unfortunately there are many many worse chairman. If you drive Bates out he's likely to sell to one of the blokes we really don't want. Let Bates finish what he started is my view.

Bates mumbo jumbo in the ground is unhelpful. Spreading rumours about admin just as renewals are due - which some posters did [not on here but elsewhere] is despicable and unworthy of a Leeds fan. Go on mate - catch me out/tell me what's wrong with my position which I have held consistently?

As for agreeing - if I do it seems I'm wrong and if I don't it seems I'm wrong. Best thing I find is simply to post my opinion and leave it at that. I post on Bates more than I should really but only because I'm in a minority of 1 on here so I feel obliged to maintain a bit of balance. Balance after all is what I'm interested in. You don't like/want Bates, fair enough. But you have to do more than stamp your feet. You have to produce an alternative. Prices are too high by the way BUT I have no idea if we could charge less. Our overheads are those of a Prem club I believe given the mess Bates inherited from previous chairman who were simply allowed to get on and waste money.

I think I'll leave Bates to the hounds now. He has shown his intent by appointing Warnock. In one move he has blown most arguments out of the water. Including the liquidate at 50/he doesn't want to get promoted/he wont pay a decent wage/he only wants 'yes' men etc etc etc

Great days as the dream is still alive and flourishing.

[Martyn]

We have our best chairman since Wilkos days. For some strange reason we let everyone in between get away with murder. Suddenly, out of the blue, we take up arms against a chairman with Chelsea in his DNA. I smell a rat

Let any self employed poster who has never taken cash and not declared it for tax purposes or any other poster who has paid in cash knowing tax would not be paid throw the first stone I say. And anyone who doesn't swipe their Oyster card is having a laugh surely

Yes, I expected you to dodge the Ridsdale question. Fair enough.

However, I challenge you to find any post of mine where I've raised Bates's Chelsea heritage as an issue.

My problem with Bates is the same problem I have with the likes of Fred Goodwin. They are both predators of the extreme market, the sort who will casually destroy lives to make themselves an extra buck and never think twice about it. My loathing for Bates is based on my politics, it's nothing to do with him having been chairman of Chelsea.

You admire him, I don't. We'll never achieve any form of agreement, so it's probably best to drop it.

[white.riot]

Yes, I expected you to dodge the Ridsdale question. Fair enough.

However, I challenge you to find any post of mine where I've raised Bates's Chelsea heritage as an issue.

My problem with Bates is the same problem I have with the likes of Fred Goodwin. They are both predators of the extreme market, the sort who will casually destroy lives to make themselves an extra buck and never think twice about it. My loathing for Bates is based on my politics, it's nothing to do with him having been chairman of Chelsea.

You admire him, I don't. We'll never achieve any form of agreement, so it's probably best to drop it.

I haven't dodged the Ridsdale question - it was obvious he was barking mad by the time we signed Fowler and Seth but there was nowt anyone could do about it. No one tried cos most folk were congratulating themselves on our spending power.

I'll leave you to concern yourself with Fred the banker. No relevance imo.

Bates will leave us in the Prem with an improved ground. You of course dodge that time and time again because - well because Bates isn't nice

By the way - I do not admire Bates. But I do despise hypocrisy. Not too keen on having words put in my mouth either to be honest.

Fine to drop it - I know we will never agree and I'm happy with that. It's just that when you all wade in slapping each other on the back as you compete to throw bigger and bigger insults at the Chairamn, I feel obliged to put the case for the defence. I'm happy that I have introduced more than enough reasonable doubt to secure an aquital

[Armleywhite]

"Secure an aquital" ?? Doubt it, the jury is still out im afraid. Apart from making a marvelous success at lining his own pockets, I have yet to see a business he's been involved with that is anything but.