Massimo TOMA thread

[YorkshireSquare]

My understanding was that he put in the winding up order the day after the collapse of the takeover bid. Do we know that the GFH wouldn't negotiate paying him back? Do we know for sure that Cellini (despicable as he is) would definitely not have paid him back?

I don't, all I know is that it's a f**king mess and none of them have come away from this with any credit. Farnan aside possibly.

[HarryofOz]

I don't, all I know is that it's a flipping mess and none of them have come away from this with any credit. Farnan aside possibly.

I agree absolutely with that.

[YorkshireSquare]

I agree absolutely with that.

And the middle paragraph from the GFH statement, later removed, just goes to prove that anyone wanting to by the club has to deal with amateurish kids...

The winding up petition issued by Enterprise Insurance, a sponsor whose managing director, Andrew Flowers, claims to support the club, is misconceived and an abuse of legal process. It is being vigorously contested by the club's lawyers.

As there were no valid grounds to issue the petition, we can only assume that Mr. Flowers is seeking to influence the deliberations of the club's owners and management in relation to the take-over negotiations.

Under the ownership of GFH Capital Leeds United has always met its financial obligations, and it will continue to do so.

[Martyn]

For those who have asked "why did Cellino block the Ross sale?", it's very simple when you look at the maths.

It is widely reported that he is buying 75% of the club for £25m. For clarity, I will use £24m as the price he is paying, it just makes the figures easier to deal with but the same argument applies with £25m.

In buying the club, he is buying a list of assets. These were valued much earlier in the season when investment talk was in the air. If 75% of the club is worth £24m, that puts the value of the club at £32m. Part of that valuation was the value of Ross. Early in the season I doubt if any of us would have thought he had a market valuation of more than £2m, so let's use that.

Value of club with Ross = £32m, value of club without Ross = £30m.

On Friday, at the time when Cellino was finalising the deal, there was a bid for Ross reported as £6m. Had that been accepted by GFH, they would have pocketed £6m and the value of the club would have reduced by £2m, so Cellino's purchase price would be 75% of £30m = £22.5m.

By blocking the deal, Cellino pays £24m which gives him 75% of the asset value of Ross - or £4.5m.

So from his perspective, he pays £24m and has an asset in Ross worth £4.5m to him. Net outlay £19.5m.

Comparing that to the £22.5m he would have paid with Ross sold, that gives him £3m profit.

From GFH's point of view, they may well have been tempted to cash in on Ross at £6m, but the threat was that Cellino would say the deal was off if they sold.

This argument holds whether Cellino (which, frighteningly, is an anagram of El Colin) or the SC/TL consortium were the bidder, it's about the numbers not the personalities.

[mav]

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes to cause Flowers to issue a winding up order, all I know is I would rather not have a convicted crook as owner.

Also for those looking at his daughter, she can't even fill her top so what is the interest?

[HarryofOz]

And the middle paragraph from the GFH statement, later removed, just goes to prove that anyone wanting to by the club has to deal with amateurish kids...

A agree with your assessment of GFH as well.

[Durly]

I really don't know what to think at this time. None of these dickheads are ingratiating themselves in any way, shape or form.
I don't really want Cellino anywhere near the club but he does (at least on the surface) APPEAR to have money and the wherewithal to get us moving forward, even if he is an absolute, despotic barnpot.
I was on side with the Flowers/Farnan mega-consortium idea for a bit (especially as numerous people were hinting there was major, silent backing involved) but I somehow doubt that at the moment, plus Flowers' latest, winding-up trick has made him look like a complete f***nut of Batesian proportions.
GFH/C have shown themselves up to be a bunch of blithering, incompetent cretins who lurch from one PR disaster to another in a completely aimless fashion.
Administration and points deductions are also, clearly a nightmare waiting to happen.

God knows. I'm lost as to what to think.

[Martyn]

I really don't know what to think at this time. None of these dickheads are ingratiating themselves in any way, shape or form.
I don't really want Cellino anywhere near the club but he does (at least on the surface) APPEAR to have money and the wherewithal to get us moving forward, even if he is an absolute, despotic barnpot.
I was on side with the Flowers/Farnan mega-consortium idea for a bit (especially as numerous people were hinting there was major, silent backing involved) but I somehow doubt that at the moment, plus Flowers' latest, winding-up trick has made him look like a complete f***nut of Batesian proportions.
GFH/C have shown themselves up to be a bunch of blithering, incompetent cretins who lurch from one PR disaster to another in a completely aimless fashion.
Administration and points deductions are also, clearly a nightmare waiting to happen.

God knows. I'm lost as to what to think.

Same old Leeds.

No good options whichever way we turn

[weasel]

Can't believe anyone still wants Flowers. It seems the people that advocate are simply towing an anyone but Cellino line.

Flowers has lent the club £1.7m - a loan which doesn't need to be paid back until 2015. For him to issue the winding up order is ridiculous as GFH have paid the agreed interest payments (£119k per year). It is like a bank giving you a 25 year mortgage and then suddenly wannting you to pay the full amount back a year into the 25 year deal despite you having kept up with the relevant mortgage payments. How anyone can say it isn't a vindictive act baffles me as clearly he has just spat his dummy out and is seeking to derail the Cellino takeover (see also his threat of legal action against the FL if Cellino passes thhe fitness test).

Flowers could have had the club. He had an agreed fee but after being allowed to read the books etc he made a bid for seriously less than had been agreed. No one has revealed the 'reasons' for his lower bid. However the fact he now wants, along with the other consortium, to pay the full price would suggest he simply got things wrong. The most logical explanation, in the absence of facts, would suggest he didn't think anyone else was seriously interested and he thought he ccould screw GFH due to the club losing money. If there was something seriously wrong when he did the due diligence then why is he now prepared to pay the previously agreed price?

For me Flowers and the other consortium are bad news for Leeds. As shown by Flowers charging 7% on his loan to Leeds he isn't going to risk his own money for the benefit of the club. That would suggest that they would be hoping to get Premiership football but would be balancing the books. Bye bye Ross, bye bye Byram, bye bye Mowatt unless we got instant success (promotion this season). Flowers is just another Batesesque owner but with better PR skills.

If Leeds are to achieve the dreams/hopes of fans - not ruling the world but having young players come through and not having to sell them - we need to be in the Premiership. Until that point any player that comes good for us will simply be sold. I am impressed with GFH that they haven't sold the likes of RMc and Byram and think they deserve a lot of credit for that. Whilst no Leeds fans wants the circus side of things that we have seen with Cellino sadly for me he is the only option on the table that is likely to plough big money into the playing side to try to get us into the Prem and that is where we need to be or forget watching RMc, Byram, Mowatt etc and continue to watch the club sell the best players and replace them with lesser players and sell off the youth (Delph, Howson & all the other poached players from the academy that were taken the second they showed potential such as Garbutt & Rose).

Yes I would prefer a Yorkshire consortium that had the club in its heart but Flowers and the other consortium are not the saviours. They are simply the next in the line of Krasner & Bates that will try to live the dream but don't have the money to propel us. They know that worst case scenario they can balance the books by selling the assets (now just the players).

Do I want Cellino? Not particularly. Is there anyone else that is looking to buy the club that I wwould prefer? No.
Has Cellino got the means to put the club into a position where we are no longer a selling club? Yes. Are the other interested parties able to do that (without simply getting lucky by getting promoted without buying players)? Doubtful.

I am willing to give Cellino a chance. The longer we fall behind the closer it gets to being impossible to close the gap. The situation for me is reminiscent of the 80s where we spent season after season in the doldrums before we took the gamble and splashed a bit of cash under Wilko. Without the gamble then the likes of Batty and Speed would have simply been flogged off (like Ian Snodin) and we would have continued to be a midtable team occasionally threatening to get promoted.

[Armleywhite]

Just because I don't want Cellino at the club DOESN'T mean I want Flowers either.

[weasel]

Just because I don't want Cellino at the club DOESN'T mean I want Flowers either.

Yeah none of the options tick all the boxes. Not heard Simon Morris's name being linked with the club in a while....

[Martyn]

Weasel, not sure how you can say

Flowers is just another Batesesque owner but with better PR skills.

I've seen nothing to convince me of his PR skills!

[Martyn]

Interesting take on the winding-up petition

[drsdadsotherson]

Interesting take on the winding-up petition

True enough, but the petition is going to get his £400 back and tell the FA mechanics to cut the brake pipes and watch the car roll downhill with a hefty points deduction.

[Martyn]

True enough, but the petition is going to get his £400 back and tell the FA mechanics to cut the brake pipes and watch the car roll downhill with a hefty points deduction.

I really do not believe Admin is a possibility (which is where the points deduction would come in). No bank would allow one of its subsidiaries to go into Admin, way too embarrassing.

A shame in some ways, as it might free up the debt that bates signed us up to when he mortgaged off several years' season ticket sales to pay for his vanity project.

[The Subhuman]

Interesting take on the winding-up petition

interesting?..not really, I think my vase analogy was more accurate

[MeeTa]

Can't believe anyone still wants Flowers. It seems the people that advocate are simply towing an anyone but Cellino line.

Flowers has lent the club £1.7m - a loan which doesn't need to be paid back until 2015. For him to issue the winding up order is ridiculous as GFH have paid the agreed interest payments (£119k per year). It is like a bank giving you a 25 year mortgage and then suddenly wannting you to pay the full amount back a year into the 25 year deal despite you having kept up with the relevant mortgage payments. How anyone can say it isn't a vindictive act baffles me as clearly he has just spat his dummy out and is seeking to derail the Cellino takeover (see also his threat of legal action against the FL if Cellino passes thhe fitness test).

Flowers could have had the club. He had an agreed fee but after being allowed to read the books etc he made a bid for seriously less than had been agreed. No one has revealed the 'reasons' for his lower bid. However the fact he now wants, along with the other consortium, to pay the full price would suggest he simply got things wrong. The most logical explanation, in the absence of facts, would suggest he didn't think anyone else was seriously interested and he thought he ccould screw GFH due to the club losing money. If there was something seriously wrong when he did the due diligence then why is he now prepared to pay the previously agreed price?

For me Flowers and the other consortium are bad news for Leeds. As shown by Flowers charging 7% on his loan to Leeds he isn't going to risk his own money for the benefit of the club. That would suggest that they would be hoping to get Premiership football but would be balancing the books. Bye bye Ross, bye bye Byram, bye bye Mowatt unless we got instant success (promotion this season). Flowers is just another Batesesque owner but with better PR skills.

If Leeds are to achieve the dreams/hopes of fans - not ruling the world but having young players come through and not having to sell them - we need to be in the Premiership. Until that point any player that comes good for us will simply be sold. I am impressed with GFH that they haven't sold the likes of RMc and Byram and think they deserve a lot of credit for that. Whilst no Leeds fans wants the circus side of things that we have seen with Cellino sadly for me he is the only option on the table that is likely to plough big money into the playing side to try to get us into the Prem and that is where we need to be or forget watching RMc, Byram, Mowatt etc and continue to watch the club sell the best players and replace them with lesser players and sell off the youth (Delph, Howson & all the other poached players from the academy that were taken the second they showed potential such as Garbutt & Rose).

Yes I would prefer a Yorkshire consortium that had the club in its heart but Flowers and the other consortium are not the saviours. They are simply the next in the line of Krasner & Bates that will try to live the dream but don't have the money to propel us. They know that worst case scenario they can balance the books by selling the assets (now just the players).

Do I want Cellino? Not particularly. Is there anyone else that is looking to buy the club that I wwould prefer? No.
Has Cellino got the means to put the club into a position where we are no longer a selling club? Yes. Are the other interested parties able to do that (without simply getting lucky by getting promoted without buying players)? Doubtful.

I am willing to give Cellino a chance. The longer we fall behind the closer it gets to being impossible to close the gap. The situation for me is reminiscent of the 80s where we spent season after season in the doldrums before we took the gamble and splashed a bit of cash under Wilko. Without the gamble then the likes of Batty and Speed would have simply been flogged off (like Ian Snodin) and we would have continued to be a midtable team occasionally threatening to get promoted.

Couldn't of said it better myself, good post and fully agreed

[ldsutd]

Where's the consortium or cellino pole vote thread gone (am i just being blind lol) i voted cellino but i wonder now if the people who voted consortium would like to change there minds

[Martyn]

Where's the consortium or cellino pole vote thread gone (am i just being blind lol) i voted cellino but i wonder now if the people who voted consortium would like to change there minds

It, along with 3 other threads, has been merged into this one - it's all here if you look.

Meanwhile, The Guardian have got it right again. If there was ever a case of "Bringing the game into disrepute", the Football League are surely it.

[Martyn]

It, along with 3 other threads, has been merged into this one - it's all here if you look. And I, as one who voted for the consortium, have certainly not changed my mind about not wanting a convicted fraudster in charge of our club. I'm surprised that so many do.

Meanwhile, The Guardian have got it right again. If there was ever a case of "Bringing the game into disrepute", the Football League are surely it.