Financial statement.

mav · Post by **mav** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:54 am

as much as the doom mongers will have people believe, looks to me like cash flow is being sorted and we will be spending in the summer.

I maintain we are not far away from having a decent squad.

Post by **1964white** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:00 am

mav wrote:
I maintain we are not far away from having a decent squad.

No we are not far away Mav, unfortunately the majority of our fans can't see it

Just spoken to a Hull City mate on the phone & his words were "Leeds have played well when I've watched them on the telly, the problem is your fans expect their team to play premiership football, it's not gonna happen at this level"

Had to agree with him

gessa · Post by **gessa** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:05 am

1964white wrote:
The Leeds on Leeds aggro is horrible mate, i'm witnessing it far too often at away games.

If there isn't an prospective buyer out there & Cellino decides enough is enough, where does that leave our club ??

Ridsdale, Bates & GFH were the main contributors to our problems.

If 25k to 30k turned up at ER every home game we would benefit from the additional revenue with the opportunity of signing better players. We can't exist on 17k or less attendances especially as we have to pay rent on ER/TA then there are players/staff salaries plus the day to day running costs that come with a club such as Leeds United.

I envisage major problems for our future, the black hole is imminent once again !

Worrying times ahead

That's the catch 22, fans will stop going if we keep serving up dire football, which the home performances are, lots of our fans travel a hour plus to see the team, witnessing that kind of performance will kill the out of towners, not just match tickets but travel expenses and it as good as takes your whole day up, it's not worth the effort.
Then the club need to get the gates up to bring in the income to get better players in to help improve the team.
In this instance, Cellino now has to decide if Evans is the man for next season, if so, he needs to back him in the transfer market, because the numbers will drop not increase if the performances continue as they are.
In all honesty we have the players to be giving better performances than we are giving, the tactics need to change.

Wolfetoneleeds · Post by **Wolfetoneleeds** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:09 am

People really think fans are going to turn up when he's charging cat a prices for the football on display, and all along he laughs and mocks fans!
Ye cmon now!
Let's not make out cellino is a good man here

Post by **YorkshireSquare** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:12 am

mav wrote:as much as the doom mongers will have people believe, looks to me like cash flow is being sorted and we will be spending in the summer.

I maintain we are not far away from having a decent squad.

I'd suggest that with ever diminishing attendances cash flow will be an issue, Cellino has already admitted it will be less this financial year. Cash flow in these accounts is improved because of player sales, for that reason I can't see anything to suggest that we should see increased spending in the summer.

I hope I am proved wrong.

gessa · Post by **gessa** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:13 am

1964white wrote:
No we are not far away Mav, unfortunately the majority of our fans can't see it

Just spoken to a Hull City mate on the phone & his words were "Leeds have played well when I've watched them on the telly, the problem is your fans expect their team to play premiership football, it's not gonna happen at this level"

Had to agree with him

Can't agree mate, we have performed well in a few games but played woefully in more, I'm not unrealistic to think we are going to play Premiership style football but I expect us to play Championship standard football,I think most fans feel the same, how does he know what our fans want, he's just guessing, we are 17th with a team that should be sitting around 10th , we're under performing. I think our fans have a right to express their displeasure with what's being served up, fans want their team to play decent football and give it 100%, not too much to ask for
Each season we hear we are 3 players away from having a real go next season, it never materialises.

lufc1304 · Post by **lufc1304** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:48 am

And whilst we rumminate on what these figures mean, Cellino remains oddly silent. I'm not suggesting that he's fiddling whilst Rome burns, but a statement from the top as to what our plan are wouldn't go amiss. If he's renewing Evans' contract, state so which will allow him to start identifying targets (and departures); if not, say so and get a new man in now who can assess the squad and decide who stays, who goes, and who/what we need. Feels like we're currently in limbo, with nothing to play for and no plan for even the short term.

mav · Post by **mav** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:51 am

He has shut up every time he has someone else at the club for him has he not?

mav · Post by **mav** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:53 am

Wolfetoneleeds wrote:People really think fans are going to turn up when he's charging cat a prices for the football on display, and all along he laughs and mocks fans!
Ye cmon now!
Let's not make out cellino is a good man here

No one is making him out to be a good man, but neither is he the devil.

everyone here knows if we managed 5 wins on the bounce 1 - nill with only one shot in each game we would have 30k in ER again.

lufc1304 · Post by **lufc1304** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:54 am

mav wrote:He has shut up every time he has someone else at the club for him has he not?

So who is that? Do we even have a CEO who speaks for the club these days?

The Subhuman · Post by **The Subhuman** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:31 pm

gessa wrote:nicked from waccoe posted by someone who was asked their opinion, only has 10 posts so can't be accused of being one of the haters, interesting reading, clearly we need to see the final accounts

The Club’s statement holds few surprises for me as most information has been published before and doesn’t introduce much that wasn’t already known last summer. I’ve seen a lot of confusion today and if I can explain some of the statement I will, but I have no insider knowledge and have not yet seen the full published accounts – they may differ in exact detail but I hope my broad brush approach will be useful. If I’ve misunderstood something I would welcome the Club explaining that to me at the earliest opportunity and I will publish corrections.

The Profit and Loss account of 2014 showed a loss of £22.9m. It is important to understand how that is constructed:

1) The loss had £2.6m deferred taxation included. This is tax that fell due in 2011 when Ken Bates had the club and could be deferred for four years. The 2014 accounts took the hit. The accounts for 2014 clearly state no such tax charge is due for 2015 so immediately losses reduce by £2.6m.
2) The 2014 accounts had a huge interest charge of around £2m for debts due to GFH. When GFH sold the club to Cellino a much more sensible and realistic interest charge was applied which reduced these interest changes by around £1.3m.
3) These two factors knock £4m off the losses just by themselves.
4) It has been widely reported that GFH charged the Club management fees and I’ve seen wild figures up to £1.5m per month quoted. The reality would seem to be much less though equally damaging to the Club. The exact fees GFH charged are hidden in the accounts but close examination shows there was at least £6m charged and still unpaid in the 2013/14 accounts. Further analysis seems to indicate that another £2m could well have been paid in cash before Cellino took over. Thus when GFH sold the Club and could no longer charge these fees it meant around £8m was also knocked off the 2014 losses. Total reduction so far: £12m approx and we now know the losses without any owner doing anything would then be £10m for 2014/15.
5) Not finished yet...
6) We know that the Club spent money buying players and also sold players. The Club today indicated it made player purchases of £6.1m but has yet to announce how much profit it made in player sales.
7) From a profit/loss point of view, this £6.1m is amortised over the length of the contracts so if 3 year contracts were signed, for instance, this would only put £2m onto the loss side of the profit and loss account.
8) We made substantial money from player sales but from a profit and loss point of view it is not simple for outsiders to understand as that money must have the amortised costs brought in and any sell on clauses must be accounted for. Ross’s sale with sell on clauses did not give us £11m profit on the accounts and after all the ins and outs are considered my envelope working out the figure has £6m net profit from all player sales written on it.
9) Without player sales etc I was expecting a £10m loss for the year but selling and buying players, with the amortisation accounted for, knocks that loss down to a mere £4m.
10) Please remember that player ins and outs is the hardest figure to work out and may be a little wrong.
11) I think we can all remember that the services of personnel at the Club were dispensed with. We all know the squad size has reduced so it is obvious the wage bill has gone done. The numbers I’ve seen bandied around on social media, and indeed the written press, do not seem based on published information but I’ve always assumed cost savings would amount to around £3m – this takes the expected loss down to £1m.
12) On the converse, we know that fans are voting with their feet and attendances have fallen so ticket money has fallen. We know that fewer people in the ground means lower sales of beer, pies etc so merchandise sales have fallen. Please remember that these accounts are for the period before increased ticket prices through category inflation and forced merchandise purchases known as the pie tax so there is no revenue increase due to these measures, that will show in next year’s accounts. I’ve long been aware that commercial revenue was under pressure and felt it would fall; again don’t forget that the Hesco stand sponsorship ran out after these accounts and the lack of a shirt sponsor will affect 2015/16 accounts and not the year in question. I don’t know how much each of these have been affected but I expected a fall in income and sure enough in 2015 we had a turnover of £24m down from £32m just fours ago. This increased the loss in my estimates from £1m up to £2m.

I’m waiting for the detailed accounts to see just how right or wrong I am. I’ll hold my hand up if I’m wrong but these are my honest opinions based upon published facts – not title tattle.

The Balance Sheet is similarly expected. Once the above profit and loss is put against the 2014 balance sheet, the 2015 balance sheet emerges showing a net worth of around £1m which the Club’s statement confirms.

As others have pointed out that means that the Club is technically worth £1m, but it is a meaningless figure for a company looking to invest in the future. From my experience in business and looking for banks etc to loan me money (for instance to repurchase Elland Road using a mortgage as Massimo Cellino has said he was attempting - £7.5m was the figure he was seeking, I think) banking/financial institutions use a different analysis of the accounts to come up with a figure they think the company is worth and will only lend less than that figure.

This Club statement leads me to believe that the accounts, when they are published, will mean that financial institutions will value the Club for loan or mortgage purposes at worse than NEGATIVE £6m. In other words the Club would still be refused a mortgage to repurchase Elland Road.

I would explain other things but my supper is ready. However, I will say that if the Club’s statement is true then I feel it is more than likely the Club’s statement on ownership currently contains falsehoods.

read tat through twice and what it tells me is Cellino is doing a good job and needs a lot more time

Post by **1964white** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:24 pm

Whatever happened to the times when our fans sung ?

Forever & Ever We'll Followed Our Team + Marching On Together

What a lot of nonsense the majority of our fanbase don't want to follow their team & they certainly are not together

Our supporters are as fickle as the rest of the football world who only turn up when their team is winning

Thank god we didn't beat Watford & somehow get to a Wembley semi-final.....quite frankly it would have made me puke with the thought of the number of glory fans clamouring for tickets

Wolfetoneleeds · Post by **Wolfetoneleeds** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:23 pm

How can you say that 64, ye there is thousands of fair weather fans.
But you see 4,000 turning up to London, 7,000 to Bolton! Still taking thousands away!
And getting over 20,000 for home games when we arnt that good and have been pillaged for years.
Fans are finally having enough and you can't really blame them mate

gessa · Post by **gessa** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:32 pm

This from the same poster, makes me feel better, Eleonora (Cellino) gambling their own money to get us promoted can only be good,yes?

In 2014 Eleonora Sport lent the club £12.5m in cash that the club must repay. This is a debt that the club then has and it stays a debt until £12.5m is paid back - Eleonora Sport get no more than £12.5m even if we are promoted etc.

In 2015 Eleonora Sport realised that the club wouldn't be able to repay it quickly, and it was hurting the club to have such large debts, so they agreed to swap £6.5m into equity. That meant the club only has to repay £6m now - ie the debt which was £12.5m is now £6m.

However, Eleonora Sport gained 6.5m extra shares in the club in return for this debt swap. If the club goes into administration Eleonora Sport lose all of this money but if we are promoted and the club is later sold for £150m then Eleonora Sport will get back many tens of millions. So they are taking a £6.5m gamble that the club get promoted and they will get back much more than their original debt.

Gandalf · Post by **Gandalf** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:25 pm

gessa wrote:This from the same poster, makes me feel better, Eleonora (Cellino) gambling their own money to get us promoted can only be good,yes?

In 2014 Eleonora Sport lent the club £12.5m in cash that the club must repay. This is a debt that the club then has and it stays a debt until £12.5m is paid back - Eleonora Sport get no more than £12.5m even if we are promoted etc.

In 2015 Eleonora Sport realised that the club wouldn't be able to repay it quickly, and it was hurting the club to have such large debts, so they agreed to swap £6.5m into equity. That meant the club only has to repay £6m now - ie the debt which was £12.5m is now £6m.

However, Eleonora Sport gained 6.5m extra shares in the club in return for this debt swap. If the club goes into administration Eleonora Sport lose all of this money but if we are promoted and the club is later sold for £150m then Eleonora Sport will get back many tens of millions. So they are taking a £6.5m gamble that the club get promoted and they will get back much more than their original debt.

Eleoonora were forced to swap the £6.5M debt into equity so that the club would not fail FFP regulations - Equity swaps are not classified as losses, thereby avoiding a transfer embargo. The worrying news, to be confirmed when the full accounts come out, is that the club owes Eleonora circa £63M (£6.5 of which is equity) and GFH circa £25M, and I can't see any evidence that the money being "loaned" to the club is improving matters on the pitch.

The full acounts may also confirm whether Cellino's two wastrel sons are pulling circa £250K each in Directors salary per annum, to allow them to jet around the globe doing bugger all on behalf of the club.

Post by **1964white** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:16 pm

Wolfetoneleeds wrote:How can you say that 64, ye there is thousands of fair weather fans.
But you see 4,000 turning up to London, 7,000 to Bolton! Still taking thousands away!
And getting over 20,000 for home games when we arnt that good and have been pillaged for years.
Fans are finally having enough and you can't really blame them mate

Under 17k actual Leeds fans v Fulham

I could have stopped going in the 80's when we were absolutely shocking

Or when we dropped out of the prem & then relegated to League One

Or under the regimes of Bates & GFH

When Warnock came in & signed the likes Brown, Norris & Green ??

When we were embarrassed by Histon, the only non-league team to beat us in the history of LUFC

When we were getting murdered at ER....0-3, 0-4, 0-5, 1-6, 4-6, 3-7 and the rest or losing heavily down at Pompey & Luton, when we got hammered by Rochdale & Sheff Wed in consecutive games under McDermott

Can't say i've witnessed any of the above tankings under Evans so why should i stop going now

mav · Post by **mav** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:38 pm

What stops me going more than the cost is the silence.

ER is quiet to often now, that and only singing 2 f**king songs!

Post by **1964white** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:55 pm

mav wrote:What stops me going more than the cost is the silence.

ER is quiet to often now, that and only singing 2 f**king songs!

Like a library on Tuesday night

Wolfetoneleeds · Post by **Wolfetoneleeds** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:06 pm

1964white wrote:
Under 17k actual Leeds fans v Fulham

I could have stopped going in the 80's when we were absolutely shocking

Or when we dropped out of the prem & then relegated to League One

Or under the regimes of Bates & GFH

When Warnock came in & signed the likes Brown, Norris & Green ??

When we were embarrassed by Histon, the only non-league team to beat us in the history of LUFC

When we getting murdered at ER....0-3, 0-4, 0-5, 1-6, 4-6, 3-7 and the rest or losing heavily down at Pompey & Luton, when we got hammered by Rochdale & Sheff Wed in consecutive games under McDermott

Can't say i've witnessed any of the above tankings under Evans so why should i stop going now

Ye but it hasn't been 17k for the last few seasons!!

Wolfetoneleeds · Post by **Wolfetoneleeds** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:07 pm

mav wrote:What stops me going more than the cost is the silence.

ER is quiet to often now, that and only singing 2 f**king songs!

It hasn't been quiet for the last 3 seasons, what we got going was better than away days FACT!
But pie tax, segregation, mocking the south had out people off, who could blame them