Stick or Twist 2

[Cjay]

As we sleep walk towards the end of a disappointing season thoughts turn more towards next season.

On the pitch and off the pitch things havent been good enough. There is frustration in the stands, on the message boards, everywhere you look.

And this presents a dilemma for Manager Paul Heckingbottom. Upon appointment its fair to say he wasnt a popular choice, when names like Marco Silva and Claudio Ranieri are being tossed about and you end up with a coach in a relegation battle its bound to underwhelm.

There was still a hope that he would bring a "new manager bounce", this didnt happen, fans grew frustrated and bickered amongst themselves pointing fingers all over the place.

Most fans accept that Heckingbottom will end the season here at least, but beyond that its uncertain. His record and style has annoyed many fans and I'm sure he isnt unaware of the rumblings. However, there is an argument for time to be given as is often said.

We are also in the grips of another injury crisis, Tyler Roberts, Adam Forshaw, Eunan O'Kane, Matty Pennington, Laurens De Bock, Liam Cooper all out now possibly for some time, definitely for the weekend.

This presents an issue for Heckingbottom, does he stick with the established players, Kalvin Phillips and Kemar Roofe for example. Or does he give chances to some of the younger lads, something he has done to his credit with Peacock Farrell and Tom Pearce, although recently he dropped Pearce to go back to playing players out of position.

Its difficult for Paul Heckingbottom, on the one hand I'm sure he is aware of the impressive performances this season from the likes of Jack Clarke, Oriol Rey and others.

Heckingbottom has often said "they need to earn there chance" when asked about younger players. Criticism of this statement is fairly easy, have the 1st team regulars who he has picked over his 10 games earned there places? Aside from Pablo Hernandez, Ronaldo Vieira and Gianni Alioslki in recent games its hard to argue that they have.

So clearly the answer is pick the kids?

But Heckingbottom isnt in a position where he can afford risks. He is under immense pressure, results arent good enough, he will know that.

Its Catch 22.

If he picks Jack Clarke and Oriol Rey vs Sunderland and we win 4-0 with 2 goals each then Heckingbottom will be praised as a brave coach.

But the cauldron that is Elland Road could just as easily chew them up and spit them out. If it goes wrong, they make mistakes and we lose then Heckingbottom will be under fire even more.

A defeat to a poor Sunderland side could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Can Heckingbottom really afford to take the risk?

[Gandalf]

Roofe is injured as well. In his position, Heck will play the best 11 players available, and if that means a couple of youngsters then so be it. I don't think he will pitch in youngsters for the sake of it. Sunderland have reverted to type after their fantastic win at Derby, so maybe we will have enough to beat them.

[andrewjohnsmith]

I'd take a chance on the youngsters. I don't see the point of playing Lassoga when he won't be here next year. Ekuban will still be a part of the squad next year and needs playing time. I think guys like Dalby and Clarke should be coming off the bench. I'd make the same argument about Pennington, but center back is a tough place to throw in youngsters. Is O'Connor ready? I read a recent quote from him that he may want to move rather than stay in the U23's. De Bock will probably be our LB next year but he's injured, so give Pearce some experience.

My XI for the rest of the year: Peacock; Berardi, Jansson, O'Connor, Pearce; Phillips, Vieira; Hernandez, Saiz, Alioski; Ekuban. Subs: Dallas, Rey, Anita, Dalby, Clarke, Cibicki (Roofe if fit).

Results this year are irrelevant. Heckingbottom should know already who's part of his squad for next year, who's not, and use the remaining games to develop them. Ayling, Roberts, and Forshaw all improve the first team, as hopefully will Coyle, Klich, and Ideguchi. And we have a fair idea of what our key requirements are for next year. Hopefully we use the last few games to answer a few questions and not focus on immediate results first.

[Gandalf]

Results this year are irrelevant.

Not to Heck, they aren't. He isn't guaranteed to be in place next season, and he needs results to convince the owners that he is worth persevering with. - and to keep Clive off his back, of course. (Good luck with the last one).

[NorfolkWhite]

Not to Heck, they aren't. He isn't guaranteed to be in place next season, and he needs results to convince the owners that he is worth persevering with. - and to keep Clive off his back, of course. (Good luck with the last one).

Agreed, no way he’s sticking his neck out, no doubt he knows he needs results (and to a lesser extent performances)so he’ll not take too many risks.

And yes, hell will freeze over before the last one happens

[Ronan]

Twist...new manager please.

[fred]

Most fans accept that Heckingbottom will end the season here at least, but beyond that its uncertain. His record and style has annoyed many fans and I'm sure he isnt unaware of the rumblings. However, there is an argument for time to be given as is often said.

One must give him time so he can show what he is capable of...unless there is a proven and experienced coach prepared to come in.

We are also in the grips of another injury crisis, Tyler Roberts, Adam Forshaw, Eunan O'Kane, Matty Pennington, Laurens De Bock, Liam Cooper all out now possibly for some time, definitely for the weekend.

Has our bad luck in regard to injuries, suspencions been more severe than most other Clubs have had to experience?

This presents an issue for Heckingbottom, does he stick with the established players, Kalvin Phillips and Kemar Roofe for example. Or does he give chances to some of the younger lads, something he has done to his credit with Peacock Farrell and Tom Pearce, although recently he dropped Pearce to go back to playing players out of position.

Well pleased that he gave Bailey a chance, a chance he has taken very well I think. Might give Edmundson a chánce the rumours say.

Heckingbottom has often said "they need to earn there chance" when asked about younger players. Criticism of this statement is fairly easy, have the 1st team regulars who he has picked over his 10 games earned there places? Aside from Pablo Hernandez, Ronaldo Vieira and Gianni Alioslki in recent games its hard to argue that they have.

Sur, but he`s right all the same. Bringing in a young player, just because first team players have underachieved, is a bit problematic. (Unless such a player has played very bad and you have no 1st team player as as a replacement.) Bringing in young kids is always a bit of a risk, all the more it is important to choose the right Situation.

So clearly the answer is pick the kids?

If they are up to it, why not? But throwig kids in just for the sake of doing so, isn`t helping the kids necessarily, nor the first team.

But Heckingbottom isnt in a position where he can afford risks. He is under immense pressure, results arent good enough, he will know that.

So you are basically saying bring the kids in whatever as the current bunch aren`t getting the results. No, totally wrong. Best is to bring in a kid when things are going well, not when we are losing and the message is: kid, it`s up to you to help gettig better results.

Its Catch22.

Not, if the kids are introduced wisely into the first team.

If he picks Jack Clarke and Oriol Rey vs Sunderland and we win 4-0 with 2 goals each then Heckingbottom will be praised as a brave coach.
But the cauldron that is Elland Road could just as easily chew them up and spit them out. If it goes wrong, they make mistakes and we lose then Heckingbottom will be under fire even more

.

Not necessarily. First: a coach shouldn`t let critic of fans get to close to him. I do have a feeling that Heckingbottom may be influenced by the crowds reactions. But he quite basically should`t. If he brings a kid in then because he believes the youngster has deserved a chance (and with nothing left to play for maybe an ideal good time to do so.)

A defeat to a poor Sunderland side could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Yeah, but it is relevant how we lost (if we do.) The rest of the season should be used to experiment a bit, who gives a f**k about results, IF These games are used to gain valuable knowledge of the playing squad. (Surely not the average fans point of view...)

Can Heckingbottom really afford to take the risk?

Yes, if the results aren`t the main criteria, but trying different tactics, look how the kids he believes are up to it, handle the pressure of playing in the first team.

[Cjay]

One must give him time so he can show what he is capable of...unless there is a proven and experienced coach prepared to come in.

How much time? 10,15,20,30 matches, there has to be a limit.

Has our bad luck in regard to injuries, suspencions been more severe than most other Clubs have had to experience?

As was TC's. Sheffield Wednesday and Villa have definitely had really bad injuries this season.

Well pleased that he gave Bailey a chance, a chance he has taken very well I think. Might give Edmundson a chánce the rumours say.

Done alright has BPF still dont think he is the answer next season.


Sur, but he`s right all the same. Bringing in a young player, just because first team players have underachieved, is a bit problematic. (Unless such a player has played very bad and you have no 1st team player as as a replacement.) Bringing in young kids is always a bit of a risk, all the more it is important to choose the right Situation.

So you think he shouldn't play the kids? This isnt a good situation.

If they are up to it, why not? But throwig kids in just for the sake of doing so, isn`t helping the kids necessarily, nor the first team.

Only way to truly know if they are up to it is give them a chance surely.

So you are basically saying bring the kids in whatever as the current bunch aren`t getting the results. No, totally wrong. Best is to bring in a kid when things are going well, not when we are losing and the message is: kid, it`s up to you to help gettig better results.
[quot]Its Catch22[/quot
Not, if the kids are introduced wisely into the first team.


No i was asking should he play the kids not saying he should or shouldnt. There are arguments for and against


A defeat to a poor Sunderland side could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Can Heckingbottom really afford to take the risk?

[fred]

Cjay, can`t quote your post...maybe you can leave away the quote at the end of your post? Thanks!

[Cjay]

Cjay, can`t quote your post...maybe you can leave away the quote at the end of your post?

Far to technical for me mate

Just reply to this one if you want.

[fred]

Far to technical for me mate

Just reply to this one if you want.

Too technical? Just edit your post and take away the quote sign right at the end of it.

[Cjay]

Too technical? Just edit your post and take away the quote sign right at the end of it.

Oh is that all.

Im not good at IT

[fred]

No probs, mate. Here some answers:


-How much time? Depends on his ideas, and how much time it takes (or the time on can reasonably expect) for the payers to adopt to them. A full pre-season, maybe with some players coming in that Heckingbottom wants. From there it should show within 10-15 games if it is going in the right direction.

-Injuries can have a great Impact if the best players miss for a long part of the season. We are vulnerable because our squad is rather small.

-BPF has proved that he can be a reliable Nr. 2. No doubt we Need to get a new keeper in...won`t be easy and probly not cheap.

-He should play the kids in a sensible way. Letting 4 kids play isn`t a clever thing to do. The youngsters should be implemented in a side that `works`.
If the fans accept that results are less important than giving some kids a chance then I see no problem, as the pressure on the shoulders of the kids would be not overwhelming

-Yeah, you only see how a kid reacts when put in the first team. But there are many evidences you have available, so that a reasonable evaluation s possible if a kid is ready or not by a far way.

-As already said: we`ve nothing to play for, so from the not existent pressure having to win, an ideal situation (if the fans are prepared to accept such strategy)

-In pre-season the kids should have plenty of opportunities to experience first team football. So, I would let the kids have a go, and if they prove to be not worse than our regular players keep them playing. But not all at once of course. In general I`m totally for bringing kids in, if the`ve showed that they probably will be able to handle it (pressure wise and in regard to their Football and physical abilities.)

[Elland back]

As we sleep walk towards the end of a disappointing season thoughts turn more towards next season.

On the pitch and off the pitch things havent been good enough. There is frustration in the stands, on the message boards, everywhere you look.

And this presents a dilemma for Manager Paul Heckingbottom. Upon appointment its fair to say he wasnt a popular choice, when names like Marco Silva and Claudio Ranieri are being tossed about and you end up with a coach in a relegation battle its bound to underwhelm.

There was still a hope that he would bring a "new manager bounce", this didnt happen, fans grew frustrated and bickered amongst themselves pointing fingers all over the place.

Most fans accept that Heckingbottom will end the season here at least, but beyond that its uncertain. His record and style has annoyed many fans and I'm sure he isnt unaware of the rumblings. However, there is an argument for time to be given as is often said.

We are also in the grips of another injury crisis, Tyler Roberts, Adam Forshaw, Eunan O'Kane, Matty Pennington, Laurens De Bock, Liam Cooper all out now possibly for some time, definitely for the weekend.

This presents an issue for Heckingbottom, does he stick with the established players, Kalvin Phillips and Kemar Roofe for example. Or does he give chances to some of the younger lads, something he has done to his credit with Peacock Farrell and Tom Pearce, although recently he dropped Pearce to go back to playing players out of position.

Its difficult for Paul Heckingbottom, on the one hand I'm sure he is aware of the impressive performances this season from the likes of Jack Clarke, Oriol Rey and others.

Heckingbottom has often said "they need to earn there chance" when asked about younger players. Criticism of this statement is fairly easy, have the 1st team regulars who he has picked over his 10 games earned there places? Aside from Pablo Hernandez, Ronaldo Vieira and Gianni Alioslki in recent games its hard to argue that they have.

So clearly the answer is pick the kids?

But Heckingbottom isnt in a position where he can afford risks. He is under immense pressure, results arent good enough, he will know that.

Its Catch 22.

If he picks Jack Clarke and Oriol Rey vs Sunderland and we win 4-0 with 2 goals each then Heckingbottom will be praised as a brave coach.

But the cauldron that is Elland Road could just as easily chew them up and spit them out. If it goes wrong, they make mistakes and we lose then Heckingbottom will be under fire even more.

A defeat to a poor Sunderland side could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Can Heckingbottom really afford to take the risk?

Like so many, I was screaming 6 months ago that we needed an aditional centre back, and that we needed to keep Green.

Sorry but Rad and Orta have put us in the position we find ourselves in, though I do believe a more experienced Manager may be able to get another 20% out of our players.

We now face the Mackems with one fit centre have on Saturday.

[fred]

Like so many, I was screaming 6 months ago that we needed an aditional centre back, and that we needed to keep Green.

Sorry but Rad and Orta have put us in the position we find ourselves in, though I do believe a more experienced Manager may be able to get another 20% out of our players.

We now face the Mackems with one fit centre have on Saturday.

Yes, some rather bizar decisions were made. We did get Pennington in, and why Green left remains a bit in the dark. Wiedwald must have shown his weaknesses if there was any real scouting going on.

The fact we play Sunderland with one CB is as such of no concern to me. We`ve nothing to play for, so might as well treat the remaing games as preperation for the coming season. (Giving our best of course, but not focussing solely on the results.)

[Elland back]

Yes, some rather bizar decisions were made. We did get Pennington in, and why Green left remains a bit in the dark. Wiedwald must have shown his weaknesses if there was any real scouting going on.

The fact we play Sunderland with one CB is as such of no concern to me. We`ve nothing to play for, so might as well treat the remaing games as preperation for the coming season. (Giving our best of course, but not focussing solely on the results.)

Leeds have scouts galore not that anyone did their homework. All the club would have seen is we can pic up Werder Bremen's reserve keeper for 500k. He plays for WB. He must be amazing.

[Cjay]

Like so many, I was screaming 6 months ago that we needed an aditional centre back, and that we needed to keep Green.

Sorry but Rad and Orta have put us in the position we find ourselves in, though I do believe a more experienced Manager may be able to get another 20% out of our players.

We now face the Mackems with one fit centre have on Saturday.

Dean Smith

[fred]

Leeds have scouts galore not that anyone did their homework. All the club would have seen is we can pic up Werder Bremen's reserve keeper for 500k. He plays for WB. He must be amazing.

As I live in Switzerland I follow a bit of the football here. One point seems quite remarkable: how often Basel and YB (top two teams by a mile) find it seems year for year cheap gems (mostly from Afrika), they sell after 2-3 years for 10 times they payed. (Liverpools Salas the prime example, who Basel bought on the cheap some years ago.)
Would be REALLY interesting how Leeds scouting system works. For a team with limited budget the scouts could potentially be THE decisive factor for success or failure. Will be interesting to see, if any of the u23 turn out to be such gems?

[weasel]

As I live in Switzerland I follow a bit of the football here. One point seems quite remarkable: how often Basel and YB (top two teams by a mile) find it seems year for year cheap gems (mostly from Afrika), they sell after 2-3 years for 10 times they payed. (Liverpools Salas the prime example, who Basel bought on the cheap some years ago.)
Would be REALLY interesting how Leeds scouting system works. For a team with limited budget the scouts could potentially be THE decisive factor for success or failure. Will be interesting to see, if any of the u23 turn out to be such gems?

I think part of the trouble is also down to work permits when signing young players from Africa etc. When we signed Kewell we also wanted another young Aussie but couldn't get the paperwork approved, I forget his name but he turned into a really good international and I think we tried to sign him for a few million a few years later. Different countries have different criteria for work permits.

Definitely the hope would be that we have signed a few youth gems. We have probably signed 20 to 30 players for the equivalent cost of signing 1 first team player.

[fred]

I think part of the trouble is also down to work permits when signing young players from Africa etc. When we signed Kewell we also wanted another young Aussie but couldn't get the paperwork approved, I forget his name but he turned into a really good international and I think we tried to sign him for a few million a few years later. Different countries have different criteria for work permits.

Definitely the hope would be that we have signed a few youth gems. We have probably signed 20 to 30 players for the equivalent cost of signing 1 first team player.

Good point. Don`t know if the regulations in regard to work permits differ. England and Switzerland are both non EU countries. But England seems to have the criteria that players from abroad need to have national team experience or something similar.