Had Enough

[hector]

You look at your central players usually either a centreback or central midfielder and they need to be that rock that is unflappable. In the Sheff U build up we had PJ getting himself too worked up (biggest game of our lives stuff) when it needed calmness - it was just another game. Then in midfield and although Klich led by example he doesn't come across as a captain figure in terms of calming people down, KP gets himself too worked up, like PJ, and Hernandez is similar to Klich in that he doesn't look like a great talker and without examining his career is he a big game player?

Too many of our players got caught up in the occasion and were then like rabbits in the headlights. The hardest thing in football is usually winning that first trophy, being able to get over the line. It isn't a surprise that a lot of promoted sides then get promoted again the year after as they have got over the first hurdle and learnt how to win the important matches. That was key for our title triumph in 1992 as we had a lot of the players who had held their nerves just 2 seasons earlier in getting promoted on the last day of the season, Man Utd wilted and we just kept going game at a time. The following year Man U were lucky in that the only other team challenging them was Aston Villa who didn't know how to win things either - if memory serves me right Man U didn't have to win a match to win the title they won it because Aston Villa lost a match. Once Man U got that initial title they then were able to win it many times as they knew they were winners.

That said sometimes youthful inexperience can be just as vital, the no fear, not being used to failing atittude. We were caught with a middle aged team (football career wise) in the main with players that had failed before (with us as Cjay pointed out). It might be that if Bielsa doesn't want the journeymen pros coming in that our best option is the youth, who have become accustomed to winning.

Still hope next season we have the title wrapped up with 10 matches to go so we don't have any crucial matches to bottle it!

Ditto, especially the bit in bold, I think that was the crucial thing this season.

[The Subhuman]

If you go back to the start of the season I said Cooper was not a captain and Bielsa got it wrong allowing the players to name their own captain.

[1964white]

Of the top 6, only us and Norwich had our own players while the other 4 are reliant on loans. Personally I don't think that is sustainable. West Brom would have probably got automatic promotion if they kept Harvey Barnes, one of Villa and Derby will have to replace their best players without funding and with ffp constraints. Lampard will be given favours by Chelski though, can't do it on his own. If we lose our best players, at least we can replace them with the funds.

But will we ?

Do you trust Orta with his distinct lack of quality signings ?

His feeble loan signings Harrison, Baker & Brown produced 4 goals

Derby's loan signings Mount & Wilson produced 25 goals.

What a difference ?

Just goes to show what is achievable when you look in the right direction

Both transfer windows were a joke (nothing new there), just a little more ambition & we'd have achieved promotion. In the end we got we deserved

[SG90]

But will we ?

Do you trust Orta with his distinct lack of quality signings ?

His feeble loan signings Harrison, Baker & Brown produced 4 goals

Derby's loan signings Mount & Wilson produced 25 goals.

What a difference ?

Just goes to show what is achievable when you look in the right direction

Both transfer windows were a joke (nothing new there), just a little more ambition & we'd have achieved promotion. In the end we got we deserved

Derby also lost £65m last season and are losing £3m a month, with no sellable assets as they're all on loan. Yay. Why can't we be more like Derby?

We need to use our own youth that have done so well, rather than thinking Chelski and Man City youth on £30k a week are so much better.

[1964white]

Two great posts Leon and Weasel - nail on the head. Its been an issue for a while now, the lack of a real leader. We have to get someone in that midfield ideally who can sense when then things are going astray, to rally the troops before they start to mentally disintegrate which lets face it is what happened from the 44th minute on Wednesday and also occur ed in that horrible game versus Wigan.

There is simply no one capable of doing this right now in this squad - in time KP may be the man, but certainly not at this stage in he's career - problem, is these types of leaders are costly and for a reason as not only are they great players physically but they have the mindset not only to up their own game but to drag lesser lights with them. Strachan as you say was that player under Wilko, Bremner under Revie, although you could argue there were plenty of other leaders in that side.
Who is going to be our Strachan or Bremner of today ?!

We haven't had a decent captain or leaders on the park in many seasons Gurj.

Until we resolve this problem we'll continue to fall at the final hurdle mate

[1964white]

Derby also lost £65m last season and are losing £3m a month, with no sellable assets as they're all on loan. Yay. Why can't we be more like Derby?

We need to use our own youth that have done so well, rather than thinking Chelski and Man City youth on £30k a week are so much better

Agree but I doubt our own youth would score 25 goals between them

Right now only Shackleton is ready for the first-team

[SG90]

Agree but I doubt our own youth would score 25 goals between them

Right now only Shackleton is ready for the first-team

I said before, I'd rather look abroad for loans. Decent young South Americans at Barca, Real, Benfica etc. We need more technically gifted players to play Bielsaball. It's why players like Ayling clearly struggled this season.

[SG90]

Rumours of Newcastle wanting Roofe. We should go all out for a swap for Gayle, before they let him go to WBA.

[hector]

So they think Roofe is better than Gayle?

Stays on his feet more

[weasel]

But will we ?

Do you trust Orta with his distinct lack of quality signings ?

His feeble loan signings Harrison, Baker & Brown produced 4 goals

Derby's loan signings Mount & Wilson produced 25 goals.

What a difference ?

Just goes to show what is achievable when you look in the right direction

Both transfer windows were a joke (nothing new there), just a little more ambition & we'd have achieved promotion. In the end we got we deserved

So far Radrizanni has re-invested the money received in transfer fees back into signings so there is no real reason to think this won't be the case. He has always been clear that the club need to self fund.

I think the Orta/Bielsa combination can hopefully produce good results. Prior to Bielsa coming in it seemed Orta had the quantity over quality mantra in the hope that some of the signings would pay off. Alioski has been a good signing and Saiz when at top form was a great signing. Klich an excellent signing too. The permanent signings last year initially seemed more Orta led with Douglas and Bamford coming in as experienced championship performers. The Dan James attempted signing definitely seemed more of a joint signing with Bielsa presumably giving Orta the criteria he needed and Orta producing a short list for Bielsa to then pick from. It certainly seems that we have edged more towards young british talent of late after the initial flood of foreign youngsters.

The loan signings were a bit of a bust and we definitely have to learn from that. The loan players need to at least be as good as what we have, if not better. It does feel like we have wasted a year improving Harrison when we could have arguably given one of our young players that chance. Don't forget though that we were very close to signing Harvey Barnes on loan and he had an excellent half season for WBA so we were hopefully closer to signing top quality loans than it initially appears.

Definitely lessons to be learned in terms of the overall transfer failings but no reason why we don't do better this time around, and if Bielsa is still in charge he will know exactly what he needs and what areas of the team need strengthening. He has seen this team play in the flesh, seen their strengths and weaknesses up close, seen them training so he knows exactly what he has at his disposal and who needs to be replaced.

[Irish Ian]

We haven't had a decent captain or leaders on the park in many seasons Gurj.

Until we resolve this problem we'll continue to fall at the final hurdle mate

True indeed, this was a few times this season, at home to Wigan where we needed someone to get the players focused on the job in hand instead panic set in and we saw it again this week.

[weasel]

So they think Roofe is better than Gayle?

They wanted Rondon instead of Gayle - they clearly don't see Gayle as premiership class. It may be that they see Roofe as having something that Gayle doesn't or could just be lazy paper talk.

[SG90]

So far Radrizanni has re-invested the money received in transfer fees back into signings so there is no real reason to think this won't be the case. He has always been clear that the club need to self fund.

I think the Orta/Bielsa combination can hopefully produce good results. Prior to Bielsa coming in it seemed Orta had the quantity over quality mantra in the hope that some of the signings would pay off. Alioski has been a good signing and Saiz when at top form was a great signing. Klich an excellent signing too. The permanent signings last year initially seemed more Orta led with Douglas and Bamford coming in as experienced championship performers. The Dan James attempted signing definitely seemed more of a joint signing with Bielsa presumably giving Orta the criteria he needed and Orta producing a short list for Bielsa to then pick from. It certainly seems that we have edged more towards young british talent of late after the initial flood of foreign youngsters.

The loan signings were a bit of a bust and we definitely have to learn from that. The loan players need to at least be as good as what we have, if not better. It does feel like we have wasted a year improving Harrison when we could have arguably given one of our young players that chance. Don't forget though that we were very close to signing Harvey Barnes on loan and he had an excellent half season for WBA so we were hopefully closer to signing top quality loans than it initially appears.

Definitely lessons to be learned in terms of the overall transfer failings but no reason why we don't do better this time around, and if Bielsa is still in charge he will know exactly what he needs and what areas of the team need strengthening. He has seen this team play in the flesh, seen their strengths and weaknesses up close, seen them training so he knows exactly what he has at his disposal and who needs to be replaced.

Radz said he wanted to sign "proven Championship players" this season, because of fans moaning, which is why we ended up with Heckaday as manager. This has been our mistake, as the signings have been poor and genuinely more expensive and with bigger wage demands than our previous signings. We need Bielsa type signings now. Not some bloke who scored 5 goals in the Championship two seasons ago.

[1964white]

I said before, I'd rather look abroad for loans. Decent young South Americans at Barca, Real, Benfica etc. We need more technically gifted players to play Bielsaball. It's why players like Ayling clearly struggled this season.

I agree we need more technically gifted players to suit Bielsa's style of football

Tbf I thought Ayling was one of better players this season, must be one of the best attacking wing-backs in the championship

[1964white]

So far Radrizanni has re-invested the money received in transfer fees back into signings so there is no real reason to think this won't be the case. He has always been clear that the club need to self fund.

I think the Orta/Bielsa combination can hopefully produce good results. Prior to Bielsa coming in it seemed Orta had the quantity over quality mantra in the hope that some of the signings would pay off. Alioski has been a good signing and Saiz when at top form was a great signing. Klich an excellent signing too. The permanent signings last year initially seemed more Orta led with Douglas and Bamford coming in as experienced championship performers. The Dan James attempted signing definitely seemed more of a joint signing with Bielsa presumably giving Orta the criteria he needed and Orta producing a short list for Bielsa to then pick from. It certainly seems that we have edged more towards young british talent of late after the initial flood of foreign youngsters.

The loan signings were a bit of a bust and we definitely have to learn from that. The loan players need to at least be as good as what we have, if not better. It does feel like we have wasted a year improving Harrison when we could have arguably given one of our young players that chance. Don't forget though that we were very close to signing Harvey Barnes on loan and he had an excellent half season for WBA so we were hopefully closer to signing top quality loans than it initially appears.

Definitely lessons to be learned in terms of the overall transfer failings but no reason why we don't do better this time around, and if Bielsa is still in charge he will know exactly what he needs and what areas of the team need strengthening. He has seen this team play in the flesh, seen their strengths and weaknesses up close, seen them training so he knows exactly what he has at his disposal and who needs to be replaced.

As the Leeds chant goes : Bielsa knows exactly what we need

I believe Harvey Barnes or Dan James would have made the difference

[The Subhuman]

I believe Jamie Shackleton would have made a difference ...

[1964white]

True indeed, this was a few times this season, at home to Wigan where we needed someone to get the players focused on the job in hand instead panic set in and we saw it again this week.

We pressed the panic button far too often looking like rabbits in headlights without anyone to take control of a situation especially when we were on the back foot.

I truly believed promotion had gone as I trudged to our coach after the Wigan game, we needed to go up automatically as the play-offs are always a bit of a lottery

[1964white]

I believe Jamie Shackleton would have made a difference ...

The one player many of us were touting to play, unfortunately Marcelo preferred his more experienced players & only played Shackleton when he had no other options

[The Subhuman]

point being we already had a James quality player and maybe others but we never found out. Bielsa is a top manager but he has his flaws and they may have cost us ultimately this season

[weasel]

Always a tricky one because Clarke was the same situation of looking great as a sub but then maybe wasn't quite ready to be a starter with the added pressure. On paper Shackleton looked like a great option with his pace but long term Bielsa may get the decision right in terms of Shackleton's career albeit though as you say Shackleton could maybe have made a difference. I would expect Shackleton to be more involved next season and be solely part of the first team squad.