Pontus Jansson

Post by **1964white** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:03 pm

SG90 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:50 am I said from day one that Ben White was his replacement. Nice and cheap for Radz.

Expect KP to play CB again.

I'll be cross if that is the case. Phillips did a competent job standing in for our lack of CB's but he was groomed as a defensive midfielder which is where he is most effective & that's the position he should play. There should be no need to play square pegs in round holes if we have a adequate squad, that was one of our downfalls last season

weasel · Post by **weasel** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:55 pm

1964white wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:03 pm I'll be cross if that is the case. Phillips did a competent job standing in for our lack of CB's but he was groomed as a defensive midfielder which is where he is most effective & that's the position he should play. There should be no need to play square pegs in round holes if we have a adequate squad, that was one of our downfalls last season

KP filled in as Bielsa wasn't happy with the youth centrebacks, evidenced by Shaugnessy been sent out on loan last year and Halme and Diaz being let go this summer. As such Kp was obviously seen as the 4th best centreback by Bielsa. As it stands then I would have thought Cooper, berardi and White are currently the first 3 options with KP 4th again although it may even be that Strujyk (not sure on spelling there) would be 4th choice or we will bring someone in once PJ is sold.

Cjay · Post by **Cjay** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:52 pm

weasel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:38 am You can't say you want him here but then not allow him to do things the way he wants to. Like you say he has had bad second seasons, mostly it seems because the boards didn't give him the proper support. How many of those bad second seasons were simply down to Bielsa, I would doubt more than 1 or 2 and if he has learnt from them then he knows he has to make the decisions and not question himself.

I back Bielsa 100% - I think the only player sold (or in the process of being sold) that he would have wanted to keep is Vieira. Obviously you can add Clarke to that but finances dictate and I am sure he was delighted that we got him back so in effect it is a sale in a year's time.

We have to back him because he is the boss and its the right thing to do but it worries me.

MB believes a side should be like a well oiled machine and individual quality should matter less if the side works well as one.

At the end of the day though we were poor after Xmas.

Jansson as a defender is better then anyone we have left, maybe he cant pass the ball as well as White or whatever but purely from a defensive standpoint we are weaker and for the battle and fight involved in this league we need defenders who can defend and PJ is as good as anyone at that at this level. If we could afford the absolute best players for the style that would be different, but we cant so we compromise, for example White may be a better ball player then PJ but its unlikely he is a better defender.

I just dont think we will get promoted playing Bielsa ball with his ideal players. The Championship is a tough league and as MB alluded to some teams will just pump balls forward and play for set pieces and what not. We cant stop them doing that and in the end our defenders will have to defend that sort of thing and without Jansson we will struggle imo. Its fine having players who can play out from the back (i dont think Berardi and Cooper are better then PJ at that anyway) but defensively you need players like Jansson in this league. It isnt La Liga and sometimes you need players able to do the basics well.

We have to back MB but I'm worried that he hasnt learned and is making us weaker individually to try and fit his style and i dont think the individual quality can be disregarded at this level. I think teams need those standout individuals who just are better at their job then anyone else regardless of style.

Not sure i have explained my point well but i know what i mean

Having said all that Brentford are a passing out from the back side to so maybe it isnt style and is just personality. In which case shouldn't a manager be able to manage that? The last time we sold a player a player because of his personality it was Cantona.

For me PJ looked devastated after the playoffs and he is a winner and i can see words being exchanged for that reason between PJ and others, but i want players with that winning mentality and the team absolutely did let everyone down and no issue if PJ let them know that.

mothbanquet · Post by **mothbanquet** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:04 pm

Cjay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:52 pm We have to back him because he is the boss and its the right thing to do but it worries me.

MB believes a side should be like a well oiled machine and individual quality should matter less if the side works well as one.

At the end of the day though we were poor after Xmas.

Jansson as a defender is better then anyone we have left, maybe he cant pass the ball as well as White or whatever but purely from a defensive standpoint we are weaker and for the battle and fight involved in this league we need defenders who can defend and PJ is as good as anyone at that at this level.

I just dont think we will get promoted playing Bielsa ball with his ideal players. The Championship is a tough league and as MB alluded to some teams will just pump balls forward and play for set pieces and what not. We cant stop them doing that and in the end our defenders will have to defend that sort of thing and without Jansson we will struggle imo. Its fine having players who can play out from the back (i dont think Berardi and Cooper are better then PJ at that anyway) but defensively you need players like Jansson in this league. It isnt La Liga and sometimes you need players able to do the basics well.

We have to back MB but I'm worried that he hasnt learned and is making us weaker individually to try and fit his style and i dont think the individual quality can be disregarded at this level. I think teams need those standout individuals who just are better at their job then anyone else regardless of style.

Not sure i have explained my point well but i know what i mean

At the end of the day mate, only our position at the end of the coming season will be the true indicator of our summer business. If White or whoever replaces Pontus turns out to be a revelation then it's a genius move, if not then it'll be an unforgivable mistake. Nothing to do but wait and see but all I'll say is that no matter how much I loved Pontus as a player and a character, it was Bielsa who got us to 3rd, not him. I'll give Bielsa the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise through the club's success or failures.

dezzy · Post by **dezzy** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:09 pm

Bielsa has a massive say in how the club is run on the footballing side, I think all player incomings and outgoing will have to pass through him, I think last year we learned he is very single minded and him being such a great coach doesn’t mean he’s immune to mistakes, he says that himself.
I wouldn’t be getting too worked up about things until we have completed our buisness, every single club will have fans worried about the business they’ve done, will it work, will it fail, you’ll drive yourself mad thinking too much, strap yourself in and enjoy the ride, the club are working towards what they belive will work, at the moment we know very little of what Bielsa hopes to have in place come August.
I expect a replacement for Pontus and Roofe at the very least, if not I would have concerns, but will wait until the window is closed to get worked up about things

mothbanquet · Post by **mothbanquet** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:22 pm

We also have to accept that not one of us (I'm assuming) knows the full extent of what's been going on in the dressing room. Could well be that several other players have voiced concerns about the man who got himself suspended gobbing off about referees and seemingly refused to follow Bielsa's instructions at times. Maybe we'll never know the full story...

weasel · Post by **weasel** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:36 pm

Cjay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:52 pm We have to back him because he is the boss and its the right thing to do but it worries me.

MB believes a side should be like a well oiled machine and individual quality should matter less if the side works well as one.

At the end of the day though we were poor after Xmas.

Jansson as a defender is better then anyone we have left, maybe he cant pass the ball as well as White or whatever but purely from a defensive standpoint we are weaker and for the battle and fight involved in this league we need defenders who can defend and PJ is as good as anyone at that at this level. If we could afford the absolute best players for the style that would be different, but we cant so we compromise, for example White may be a better ball player then PJ but its unlikely he is a better defender.

I just dont think we will get promoted playing Bielsa ball with his ideal players. The Championship is a tough league and as MB alluded to some teams will just pump balls forward and play for set pieces and what not. We cant stop them doing that and in the end our defenders will have to defend that sort of thing and without Jansson we will struggle imo. Its fine having players who can play out from the back (i dont think Berardi and Cooper are better then PJ at that anyway) but defensively you need players like Jansson in this league. It isnt La Liga and sometimes you need players able to do the basics well.

We have to back MB but I'm worried that he hasnt learned and is making us weaker individually to try and fit his style and i dont think the individual quality can be disregarded at this level. I think teams need those standout individuals who just are better at their job then anyone else regardless of style.

Not sure i have explained my point well but i know what i mean

Having said all that Brentford are a passing out from the back side to so maybe it isnt style and is just personality. In which case shouldn't a manager be able to manage that? The last time we sold a player a player because of his personality it was Cantona.

For me PJ looked devastated after the playoffs and he is a winner and i can see words being exchanged for that reason between PJ and others, but i want players with that winning mentality and the team absolutely did let everyone down and no issue if PJ let them know that.

Deffo understand your concerns and it is a massive call by Bielsa to ditch PJ - however he would have done it all last season but for Berardi's injury and whilst you cite our form after Xmas and the need for leaders well PJ was part of that team, part of the team giving away soft goals. So if Bielsa had identified weaknesses in PJ prior to last season that doesn't suit Bielsaball then likely last season PJ would have simply confirmed what Bielsa already knew - those are weaknesses that aren't clearly visible when watching the matches but with Bielsa and his meticulously thorough analysis they would be visible.

So I don't for one minute buy into the personality clash or even a bad egg type situation as being the prime reason for PJ being sold but Bielsa doesn't see him being able to do the job in the position pure and simple. The ego/bad egg side of things then comes into play if you are thinking of keeping PJ as 3rd or 4th choice as it would be detrimental to team spirit.

Irish Ian · Post by **Irish Ian** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:03 pm

Cjay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:52 pm
I just dont think we will get promoted playing Bielsa ball with his ideal players. The Championship is a tough league and as MB alluded to some teams will just pump balls forward and play for set pieces and what not. We cant stop them doing that and in the end our defenders will have to defend that sort of thing and without Jansson we will struggle imo. Its fine having players who can play out from the back (i dont think Berardi and Cooper are better then PJ at that anyway) but defensively you need players like Jansson in this league. It isnt La Liga and sometimes you need players able to do the basics well.

We have to back MB but I'm worried that he hasnt learned and is making us weaker individually to try and fit his style and i dont think the individual quality can be disregarded at this level. I think teams need those standout individuals who just are better at their job then anyone else regardless of style.

Not sure i have explained my point well but i know what i mean

I think really the Q is does Bielsaball work over a whole season?

I have my doubts, I like the man immensely, he is refreshingly honest in his approach at times and has an endearing humanity that many of us could learn from. Also I like that we try to play attractive football. But there are times when you need another mindset and not having it has cost us dear. --For example when we pulled it back to 3-3 vs Derby and went down to 10 men there was still no thought of consolidation, catching a breath, instead we were still piling forward and left the hole behind for their lad to into to score ( yet another) easy goal. Naive.
Announcing his side to the opposition two days ahead of the game. Naive.

Not rotating enough and allowing enough fresh players into the side. Players go in and out of form over a season, for lots of different reasons their performances fluctuate, and for that reason we need depth.
I know we had a horrendous amount of injuries, but was that all bad luck or was there more to it? I still wonder if the the emotional intensity required to play in his system adds up over the season. Come Derby it was last man standing selection wise. And by then some of our lads looked shot. Nothing left in the locker.

MB said last May that he didnt believe his players would be able to reach the same heights playing wise this season. I wonder who he specifically had in mind? Was PJ one of those? Was KR? Maybe that is why they may be finding themselves playing elsewhere this season, but for all this talk of Club before Player that gets bandied about, and the fingers pointed PJ not being supportive, the facts prove that on the pitch, he gave his all, and we need more players like that around if we are to do well next time.

I still wonder if Bielsaball is a winning formula in the Championship...

gessa · Post by **gessa** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:15 pm

It has to work, well better than other systems, the closest weve been since p o against Watford, other than a colossal f*** up, we were 90 minutes away from getting there,

Post by **1964white** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:47 pm

https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2019/j ... brentford/

“Pontus is a top defender who brings immense professionalism, a great attitude, experience, defensive robustness, leadership qualities, and threat from set pieces to our side. Everyone knows about the Brentford model but to develop the young players we have here, we also need experience and quality in the squad to get the perfect balance. To have someone with his CV turn down other offers to join us shows where we stand as a club now.”

Phil Giles, Brentford FC Co-Director of Football, added: "Pontus is not a player we have been tracking for some time. In fact, it was only very recently that we were alerted to his availability and reacted quickly to the opportunity. It says a lot about Pontus that he chose to sign for Brentford as much as we chose to sign him. There is a mutual feeling that we can be successful together, and we wish him well during his time with us."

Post by **1964white** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:54 pm

Thank you Pontus

I personally loved watching you play for Leeds, best CB since our premiership years

I wish you all the best as you help the bees to a promotion challenge

No doubt you'll score against our midgets

SG90 · Post by **SG90** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:19 pm

Hurts seeing him in another shirt

dezzy · Post by **dezzy** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:20 pm

Really really bizarre. If it’s 5 million I can’t see how! Why the sudden rush to get him out the door, maybe to get 10m we’d have had to wait all summer and need the cash now? I really expect a influx of good news soon, if he turned down money for the club and wanted another crack at taking us up, fair enough, but surely he’s not gutting the squad, he’ll be gone next summer either way, has put all the money he’s prepared to put in, so selling players is the only way to get what Bielsa wants. I can’t see us not spending at least 10m, bringing in two good quality players, Radz is as invested in Leeds success as we are

gessa · Post by **gessa** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:24 pm

That's not a happy face.

Post by **YorkshireSquare** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:30 pm

gessa wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:24 pm That's not a happy face.

Not a happy pen either!

Post by **1964white** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:30 pm

SG90 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:19 pm Hurts seeing him in another shirt

Aye I know how you feel SG

One of my favourite players, only need KP to go & I'll be in total despair

SG90 · Post by **SG90** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:38 pm

1964white wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:47 pm https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2019/j ... brentford/

“Pontus is a top defender who brings immense professionalism, a great attitude, experience, defensive robustness, leadership qualities, and threat from set pieces to our side. Everyone knows about the Brentford model but to develop the young players we have here, we also need experience and quality in the squad to get the perfect balance. To have someone with his CV turn down other offers to join us shows where we stand as a club now.”

Phil Giles, Brentford FC Co-Director of Football, added: "Pontus is not a player we have been tracking for some time. In fact, it was only very recently that we were alerted to his availability and reacted quickly to the opportunity. It says a lot about Pontus that he chose to sign for Brentford as much as we chose to sign him. There is a mutual feeling that we can be successful together, and we wish him well during his time with us."

Screenshot 2019-07-08 at 21.47.12.png

The face of a man who was desperate to leave us apparently

Post by **YorkshireSquare** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:41 pm

SG90 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:38 pm The face of a man who was desperate to leave us apparently

Who said he was?

Denman · Post by **Denman** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:49 pm

SG90 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:19 pm Hurts seeing him in another shirt

My thoughts exactly. A reason to feel very sad tonight.

Thank you Pontus for enriching our wonderful club with your heartfelt passion.

SG90 · Post by **SG90** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:58 pm

YorkshireSquare wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:41 pm Who said he was?

I've seen plenty saying he wanted to leave and thought he was bigger than the club. Not true at all, he'll be hurting as much as us.

Ipswich Town (A) 5 May 2019 · Championship	2–3 L
Aston Villa 28 Apr 2019 · Championship	1–1 D
Brentford (A) 22 Apr 2019 · Championship	0–2 L	↓ for Clarke, Jack
Wigan Athletic 19 Apr 2019 · Championship	1–2 L
Sheffield Wednesday 13 Apr 2019 · Championship	1–0 W
Preston North End (A) 9 Apr 2019 · Championship	2–0 W

Pontus Jansson

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