Breaking news - Casilla

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
Locked
User avatar
Irish Ian
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 17209
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by Irish Ian »

rab_rant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:21 am When it comes to referring to the ethnicity of another person we seem to be standing on shifting sands since what is acceptable seems to change with the decades.

To be politically correct you have to be on your toes so as not to put a foot wrong. In my lifetime when referring to the ethnicity of someone with a different skin colour from myself it could have been black, or coloured, or Afro American or depending on the country or continent they came from Jamaican, Somali, African.

In the comedy shows of the 70's like Alf Garnet or corporal Jones from Dad's Army the names used to refer to people who were not white skinned would not be acceptable today... but oh how we laughed back then.

When you look at the scientific literature which deals with the classification and taxonomy of the different races it has also evolved and changed over the years.

Carleton S. Coon the anthropologist with his book "The origin of the races" published in 1962 has a lot to answer for. He proposed the world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid.

The Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s and changing social attitudes challenged racial theories like Coon's that had been used by segregationists to justify discrimination and depriving people of civil rights.

The list of ethnic slurs is a veritable minefield and the length and scope of the list is so formidable that it would be better to keep our mouths shut and never talk at all.

The tongue is a small thing, but what enormous damage it can do James 3:5

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Good post.

Thing is if you ever watch any movies featuring black inner city kids and the words they use for each other would make your hair curl. If Leko heard those words from those of the same ethnicity I do wonder his response.
Context us everything.

Job 34. 3 is interesting.

 For the ear tests words Just as the tongue tastes food.
'
"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
User avatar
Irish Ian
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 17209
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by Irish Ian »

Norm wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:35 am Anyone mention kangaroos?

Disgraceful and in itself racist - probably convicted because he IS white and the guy making the accusation is black.
Harry hasnt been on yet.
'
"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
User avatar
1964white
Lord Southwold
Lord Southwold
Posts: 155501
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by 1964white »

Norm wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:35 am Anyone mention kangaroos?

Disgraceful and in itself racist - probably convicted because he IS white and the guy making the accusation is black.
Kiko is not white though, he has a coloured complexion due to where he was born & lived in a warm climate

A typical Spanish appearance!
User avatar
White Riot
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22420
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by White Riot »

Irish Ian wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:34 am Justice is a blunt instrument sadly.

Im waiting for the FA to publish before weighing in here, apart from to say a few things about the timeline.

1 September. Allegation is made and referred to FA.
2. November. After investigation charges are made. Leeds acknowledge this.
3. November. Kiko / Leeds ask for time to respond. At this point a hearing could have been held but more time was granted.
4. Hearing is held and after deliberation the ban is issued.

No matter when the ban would have been issued would it NOT have fed into an anti Leeds dialogue.

Also Johnathan Leko has suffered a season ending injury so for all those wanting to put him in stocks in front sfront of the Geldard will have to go dissappointed.
Looke like my Voodoo doll does work after all then :)
User avatar
White Riot
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22420
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by White Riot »

1964white wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:49 am Kiko is not white though, he has a coloured complexion due to where he was born & lived in a warm climate

A typical Spanish appearance!
Go back quite a few years 64 and we'd be calling Kiko and Pablo "Manuel" and quoting Fawlty Towers lines, would Kikio wanna take me to the High Court if I shouted "Ole@ when he makes a good save? :duno:
User avatar
hector
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 14669
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:57 am
Location: In a wood

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by hector »

1964white wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:49 am
A typical Spanish appearance!
Are you sterotyping in a racial way '64?? ;-)

See................ you need to be very careful in this overtly PC world...
Hopelessly lost.................. But making good time
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 19727
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Firmly on the Danny-Magnet

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by weasel »

Anonymous wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:35 pm I wasn't defending the process, just highlighting why I think it's there.

The flipside to what you say is what on earth motive would two Charlton players have for wanting the Leeds goalie banned? Seems too random to attribute it to a malicious accusation.

The most likely explanation is a genuine misunderstanding imo.
For me I feel it is more just something said in the heat of the moment rather than Kiko actually being racist. Possibly something along the lines of 'get this black c*nt away from me' at a corner when Kiko would have wanted someone to be in between himself and Leko so that he could come and claim/flap at corner. Not the nicest thing to say but in the same context as saying 'get that lanky tw*t away from me,' or 'get that welsh f*ckwit picked up.'

Now obviously it isn't pleasant terminology but equally not the same as being overtly racist. If you have a couple of seconds to try to get someone to mark someone you have to describe them quickly, it is hardly like the Charlton players are instantly known such as if you were playing Liverpool you could shout, 'Someone pick up Salah,'

Until more details come out though it is not really for us to judge. What does stink though is the ridiculous timing of the announcement of the ban. To do it late on a Friday is just plain wrong. They should have waited till Monday morning.

I like the club's statement. I feel they have got it right in condoning racism but supporting Kiko. I am just glad that Kiko had his 3 clean sheets before this ban so that all the ridiculous nonsense people were spouting about how they wanted him banned has been put to bed. I also feel that the authorities and Leeds have come up with a ban that they both feel was acceptable. Given that if Messlier plays 10 matches it supposedly triggers a clause in his contract that we are obliged to buy him it now means that if he plays the 8 matches then he will have played 9 matches (if the Arsenal game counts) and then the club have it in their power as to whether he plays the all important 10th match.

At the time of the incident Charlton were in or around the play-off places - we were a direct competitor for those places. Certainly additional motivation to stick to the story even if you knew it was more just an insulting comment rather than true racism. Once it then keeps rumbling on you can't really back down.
Cjay wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 4:23 pm I've pretended to support a team that's been crap for most of my life as part of a long term plan
Victor_Notts-17 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2026 7:03 pm Did you post them because there's something wrong with your brain
User avatar
White Riot
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22420
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by White Riot »

Anonymous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:28 am This sounds good in principle, but ignores the disempowerment experienced when you have been abused.

I'm going through a case of harassment and abuse at the moment. The last thing I want to do is to sit down and talk it through with my abuser, I want it dealt with by the police, and I don't want them near me again. I am grateful that that is what is happening.

Part of the social contract of living in a civilised society is that we endeavour to protect people from being mistreated, especially on the basis of simply being who they are.

The mechanisms for doing so in incidents like this appear deeply flawed, but that shouldn't take away from what the Charlton players will have experienced if they think they were being racially abused simply for being black and playing football. It is right that that should be taken seriously, and should be addressed in a way that gives them confidence that the system will protect them.

Our instinct is to protect Kiko, to want to see him as innocent, and to be outraged at the timescale and the manner of the investigation. Whilst understandable, I think this reaction might be mitigated if we were also thinking it through from the viewpoint of the Charlton players. Maybe this is easier to do if you have been on the receiving end of abuse yourself.
Hi Sara,

Some very good points you make here. As I said, I'm more old school and naive in my solutions. But do take your point that if you're on the receiving end you're probably feeling hurt, fragile and defensive and that's when you need some detachment from the offender.

I'm really sorry that you're the victime of abuse and harassment. I always try to draw a line of hwo far I'll go with another person and try not to upset them, if its necessary I'll always apologise whether I'm right or wrong, but just perfer to control my own actions in the first place and be careful not to upset others at all.

Having said all that, if you're looking for protection and justice you would hope that you'll get that from a professional, unbiased and capable authority/advocate/arbitrator. Does me anyone out there believe the FA/EFL are professional, unbiased and capable of managing an incident like this and ensuring justice? We're talking about Shaun Harvey and the gang here :duno:
User avatar
White Riot
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22420
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by White Riot »

Anonymous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:02 am Thanks, Ian. In a way they are. I think being harassed because of my sex gives me some empathy with what it might feel like to be harassed because of your race.

As I was saying to 64, it's harder to grasp the impact of these things if you haven't been on the receiving end of them. The various comments along the lines of, you can't say anything these days, indicate a lack of understanding imo.
Gotta say I agree with you here Sara and diagree with Ian. Its just a different form of discrimination, not nice at all and you've got a real insight into how it feels when you're on the shitty end of the stick.
rab_rant

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by rab_rant »

Anonymous wrote: I do believe you, and I had no intention to imply otherwise.

My point was that white and black people have a very different experience of growing up and living in this country. If you are black, the colour of your skin will affect your chances and your treatment in so many ways.

This simply isn't the case if you are white, so as white people we don't tend to see skin colour as such a big issue; because it isn't, for us.
I watch Dr Who and the present sidekicks are a young Asian girl, a young black boy, and an aging pensioner. Oh and the doctor is now a woman. I think the BBC have got the politisilly correct demographic covered there.

The message is not so very subtle that there should be equal rights and opportunities. We are being edjumacated.

When it comes to applying for jobs then quotas have to be filled and what can a well educated white think when a token black or asian is given the job... it is a sort of reverse discrimination.

"Is it because me is white that me don't get this job"

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Peter in Blackpool
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:50 am

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by Peter in Blackpool »

I have thought long and hard about this situation and my comments would be the same if the player banned played for Man U.

when does describing a black person as black become racist?

If I were mugged and the Police asked me for a description of my attacker and I described them as black, 6 foot tall wearing a green tshirt and scruffy jeans.....would i then be arrested for being racist.?

No, of course not!

there is a world of difference between mark the black guy......and telling the same guy to fxxx off back to the jungle

what next? will Blackpool FC be told to change its name or face charges?
danhirons
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3881
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by danhirons »

Peter in Blackpool wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:17 am I have thought long and hard about this situation and my comments would be the same if the player banned played for Man U.

when does describing a black person as black become racist?

If I were mugged and the Police asked me for a description of my attacker and I described them as black, 6 foot tall wearing a green tshirt and scruffy jeans.....would i then be arrested for being racist.?

No, of course not!

there is a world of difference between mark the black guy......and telling the same guy to fxxx off back to the jungle

what next? will Blackpool FC be told to change its name or face charges?
but do we know exactly what he said? he definitely didn't say "mark the black guy" in English. The accusations seems to be that he used the N word. If he spoke in Spanish, that makes literally no sense for him to be speaking in Spanish and I wouldn't find this argument convincing either....
User avatar
White Riot
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22420
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by White Riot »

Anonymous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:53 am I do believe you, and I had no intention to imply otherwise.

My point was that white and black people have a very different experience of growing up and living in this country. If you are black, the colour of your skin will affect your chances and your treatment in so many ways.

This simply isn't the case if you are white, so as white people we don't tend to see skin colour as such a big issue; because it isn't, for us.
I could feel as equally discriminated against because I've got a strong Northern accent and come from a working class background - both of which I'm very proud of. I could use the excuse that this bars me from an easy silver spoon path in life, but I don't, because I believe its up to yourself to make your own path and be determined to succeed in life. If some soft Southerner wants to call me a Norvern Mankee, ferret/pigeon lover I don't take offence and just think its hilarious.

Having said that, I was in Japan a couple of years ago, love the people, culture and everyting about the place, but it did give me a true impression of what its like to be in a minority - like being a fish out of water, even though I loved being there. :)
User avatar
White Riot
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 22420
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:02 pm
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by White Riot »

rab_rant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:16 am I watch Dr Who and the present sidekicks are a young Asian girl, a young black boy, and an aging pensioner. Oh and the doctor is now a woman. I think the BBC have got the politisilly correct demographic covered there.

The message is not so very subtle that there should be equal rights and opportunities. We are being edjumacated.

When it comes to applying for jobs then quotas have to be filled and what can a well educated white think when a token black or asian is given the job... it is a sort of reverse discrimination.

"Is it because me is white that me don't get this job"

"Hear me now"

More likely that you wouldn't get the job because corruption, nepotism and favouritism are not just the modus operandi of the EFL and FA.
Peter in Blackpool
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:50 am

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by Peter in Blackpool »

Anonymous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:02 am Thanks, Ian. In a way they are. I think being harassed because of my sex gives me some empathy with what it might feel like to be harassed because of your race.

As I was saying to 64, it's harder to grasp the impact of these things if you haven't been on the receiving end of them. The various comments along the lines of, you can't say anything these days, indicate a lack of understanding imo.
Sara, I do understand where you are coming from, but not knowing your situation I could lay odds that your harrassment was not confined to someone calling you a woman......Leko's complaint was that he was called black.....not racist, descriptive.
User avatar
rrfierce
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:38 pm

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by rrfierce »

On the plus side it's a good time for meslier to come in. Hull aren't getting many results and we are full of confidence.

I think casilla probably said something involving the word black in English or Spanish and the Charlton players touch offence possibly rightly so. Not sure a white player would feel the same if his skin colour was mentioned and if a black keeper did the same thing would he get the same treatment ?
User avatar
BobHirst
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by BobHirst »

Anonymous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:02 am Thanks, Ian. In a way they are. I think being harassed because of my sex gives me some empathy with what it might feel like to be harassed because of your race.

As I was saying to 64, it's harder to grasp the impact of these things if you haven't been on the receiving end of them. The various comments along the lines of, you can't say anything these days, indicate a lack of understanding imo.
The various comments along the lines of, you can't say anything these days, indicate a lack of understanding imo.

You can't say that though. You are not a man so you don't know what men have to endure.
User avatar
rich_leeds64
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 4018
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:08 pm
Twitter: @richleeds64
Location: Leeds LS27

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by rich_leeds64 »

There’s only Kiko himself who knows what was said, not Leko as he’s only thought he heard.
Has anyone stopped to think how this unproven allegation has/is affecting Kiko, he’s been told by the FA he probably said something racist when he probably didn’t it’s more likely something lost in accent and translation that Leko probably heard.

Kiko could be suffering with depression and mental health issues due to all this and in some cases people could consider suicide. It’s a very unsafe and unfair verdict and I just wish he would fight this and clear his name.
rab_rant

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by rab_rant »

Anonymous wrote: This does seem to be the issue, doesn't it - not that we don't want justice to be done, but that we have little faith in the organisation or the process to carry it out fairly.

Re your other point, I think there is a difference between offending or upsetting someone just by being an arse to them in general, and targeting someone for their race, gender, sexuality, ability etc.

The law makes this distinction because it recognises that certain characteristics can put you at an unfair disadvantage in life, particularly if you are discriminated against on that basis.

It isn't a matter of being 'offended' by the use of certain words, as I might be offended if you call me a twat. Being a twat isn't a protected characteristic; if I get insulted for being a twat, it is incumbent on me to be less of a twat in future. I can't be less female/ gay/ black/ disabled in future.
Michael Jackson was less black.
Anne Heche is less gay.
Kye Allums is less female.
Christy Brown is less disabled.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Peter in Blackpool
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:50 am

Re: Breaking news - Casilla

Post by Peter in Blackpool »

rich_leeds64 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:52 am There’s only Kiko himself who knows what was said, not Leko as he’s only thought he heard.
Has anyone stopped to think how this unproven allegation has/is affecting Kiko, he’s been told by the FA he probably said something racist when he probably didn’t it’s more likely something lost in accent and translation that Leko probably heard.

Kiko could be suffering with depression and mental health issues due to all this and in some cases people could consider suicide. It’s a very unsafe and unfair verdict and I just wish he would fight this and clear his name.
absolutely! God forbid, but I wonder what the repurcussions would be if Kiko killed himself leaving a note saying he is not racist in anyway but can't live with being branded as one.

something similar happened to me many years ago when i was arrested and branded evil, accused as i were of a very heinous crime, I could have easily killed myself, but fortunately decided to fight the system and cleared my name
Locked