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[weasel]

I think footballers in general are probably less racist than people in any other walk of life. This is because at every club, certainly in this country, there is a wide mix of races so you get used to people of different colours/races. A lot of racism is caused because the person being racist hasn't mixed with people of different race so see them as being different. In a similar way to rich people look down on poor people because they haven't mixed with them.

There is also a huge difference between saying something racist on a football pitch where there is no physical threat related to it. Much different someone saying something that they shouldn't on the pitch than the threat level that would go with the same words if used out on an open street where someone could feel physically threatened by those words.

[Irish Ian]

Gotta say I agree with you here Sara and diagree with Ian. Its just a different form of discrimination, not nice at all and you've got a real insight into how it feels when you're on the shitty end of the stick.

What did I say WR?

[rab_rant]

But you are no less pedantic...

I only pointed out with a few examples that some celebrities are not happy with the colour of their skin, their sexual orientation, or their gender and they change.

Christy Brown was the exception, who though being disabled overcame his disability and wrote with his left foot.

I objected to the implication that if you were female gay black or disabled then that automatically puts you in a category where you are likely to be persecuted.

White people wearing dreadlocks, black women having their hair straightened... everybody is making changes to their appearance or their bodies... is it to become more comfortable or more accepted or less persecuted.

We live in a fluid society and gender politics has very little to do with football... ask any REFEREE'S ASSISTANT that.

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[Irish Ian]

There’s only Kiko himself who knows what was said, not Leko as he’s only thought he heard.
Has anyone stopped to think how this unproven allegation has/is affecting Kiko, he’s been told by the FA he probably said something racist when he probably didn’t it’s more likely something lost in accent and translation that Leko probably heard.

Kiko could be suffering with depression and mental health issues due to all this and in some cases people could consider suicide. It’s a very unsafe and unfair verdict and I just wish he would fight this and clear his name.

I agree and it is one of the reasons that I think the whole system is not geared to actually dealing with the problems around issues like this.

Kiko should have been given the opportunity to meet up with his accuser and been allowed to talk the issue out before it escalated.
And that mechanism should be built into any judicial system the FA use.

Now we have an outcome of someone in the public eye with a massive label attached to him and he has recourse.

[Irish Ian]

I objected to the implication that if you were female gay black or disabled then that automatically puts you in a category where you are likely to be persecuted.



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More likely to become the next Mayor of London

See that would have been funny in an ironic sort of way 30 years ago but now I am a BAD PERSON.

[BobHirst]

This is true, I only know what they don't have to endure!

It's a fair point though; stats around male suicide and male mental health speak to the kinds of pressures men are under.

I was kinda half joking but if we follow this to its logical progression then (to be fair to the entire population) everyone is going to be prohibited from expressing an opinion on anything other than something pertaining to their own gender and ethnicity.
I don't think we would really want that.

[BGwhite]

Believe me I'm not racist, I treat everybody as I find them whatever creed or colour people are!

I was chatting with mates when we signed Augustin & I commented "I love black players as they seem to have an acceleration of pace such as Yeboah, Beckford, Gradel & dear Albert from the 60's" one of my friends said to me "you can't say that" even though I was discussing players that I admire & have plenty of affection for with lots of great memories of course!

Slip of the tongue I suppose

I had Asian friends when being brought up in the back streets of Leeds. I have one now in Gurj you all know, I give him a big hug when I see him at games, lovely fella

Are you saying you can compliment black players as long as you don't say they are black ?
The world has gone mental big time !
I like to watch Son play for spurs because of his style and dynamism...am I being racist if I maybe forgot his name (difficult I know) and said "that Asian guy, Chinese guy, Japanese guy, whatever upfront"...no I'm not. It's just terminology to be accurate of who we're talking about.
FFS world get a grip.

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[BGwhite]

Go back quite a few years 64 and we'd be calling Kiko and Pablo "Manuel" and quoting Fawlty Towers lines, would Kikio wanna take me to the High Court if I shouted "Ole@ when he makes a good save?

I still call an old workmate Gringo , not be cause he's Mexican, he's actually Spanish but the term has a nice ring to it...it doesn't bother him one bit but I suppose its racist in some people's eyes.

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[BGwhite]

Did Leko actually approach Kiko after allegedly being spoken to like that ?
I haven't seen video footage of it, has anyone on here ?
If this happened to you what would your reaction be to Kiko ? I'm quite sure I would have been in his face asking him to repeat what he said . It's a natural reaction is it not ? A kneejerk reaction first of all would back up his accusation . To report it later doesn't convince me at all.
If your house is burgled you don't think about it for a few hours before reporting it to the police.


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[rab_rant]

You'll be telling me we're facing a white genocide next.

Do you object because it doesn't fit with your ideology, or because you choose to ignore all the evidence?

Or, like a good cultural marxist, are you simply acknowledging the intersection of class?

Sara you are now skating on thin ice the mere mention of genocide means that you are flirting with Godwin's Law which states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfieted the argument.

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[Mick Jones shoulder]

Unfortunately people you now live in a world where if you say boo to the goose it's probably taking you to court. Racism a strange term considering there is only one human race, it may well be broken up into different ethnic groups or religious groups but last time I looked we are all the same.
Sometimes look back to when I was an apprentice and how we were treated some of the chaps would have been on the sex offenders register for antics they got upto
But I honestly believe it depends on your Character as to how you react to stuff, sadly we are breeding generations who are incapable of criticism, fault etc..

[hector]

When I was in the army we all had nicknames, I am sure that some of those would not be allowed now for example:
Jock Wallace
Paddy Graham
Taff Jenkins
Gupta Singh
Ghengis goldfish.

none of these were racist insults, just names.

none of the above people (who are all real people) were offended or insulted by the names, but I am sure that other people these days would be offended on their behalf given the chance.

[lufc1304]

I read that the term he used was "negrito", which is a common descriptor in whichever derivation of Spanish Kiko speaks and has no racist connotation in Spanish. I also read that black people living in spanish speaking countries embrace the descriptor without issue. I can't speak as to the veracity of these statements, but it does seem to me that this boils done to a language, and interpretation of language, issue. If Kiko said it and meant it in a derogatory or hateful way, then he deserves a ban. But, if he used it to describe a player he didn't know the name of, or didn't know the English equivalent, then he's now been labelled a racist wrongly, something that will follow him for the rest of his career and possibly life.

It's a tricky one, as there should be no place for racism in any walk of life, and Leko has every right to expect his complaint to be taken seriously. But it does feel like this is/was a misunderstanding due to language. Wasn't Pepe Kiko's best mate at Real? Hard to imagine him hanging out with a guy who held racist views.

[rab_rant]

I'm aware of Godwin's law.

I'm also aware that when people deny that there is any structural or systemic disadvantage to being black in our culture, they often have very specific ideological reasons for doing so.

Perhaps would then have difficulty explaining away my love for my 7 mixed race grandchildren then.

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[The Subhuman]

Jeez, 6 pages..Should I change the title to a discussion on racism?

[weasel]

I still call an old workmate Gringo , not be cause he's Mexican, he's actually Spanish but the term has a nice ring to it...it doesn't bother him one bit but I suppose its racist in some people's eyes.

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Gringo was my nickname at school - a multi racial school were there were more non-whites than whites. I am glad I went to a multi racial school as I feel it is as children that you learn your prejudices (usually from parents) but that if you mix with people/children you see everyone as just a person/child/friend and you don't see colour.

As Phillips is known as the Yorkshire Pirlo I might change my name to The Yorkshire Gringo!

[LUFC_BOS]

I'm aware of Godwin's law.

I'm also aware that when people deny that there is any structural or systemic disadvantage to being black in our culture, they often have very specific ideological reasons for doing so.

I must admit this discussion has progressed and the thoughts expressed have been interesting to say the least. I do appreciate the references to Godwin etc. Appreciate eralidite back and forth from all concerned.

For my take, I await the basis of this decision before making comments. Suffice to say the timing of this does seem to be questionable at best.

Nice win today everyone!

[The Subhuman]

A player getting a ban and about 10 comments max ...just a tongue in cheek observation.

[NorfolkWhite]

I watch Dr Who and the present sidekicks are a young Asian girl, a young black boy, and an aging pensioner. Oh and the doctor is now a woman. I think the BBC have got the politisilly correct demographic covered there.

The message is not so very subtle that there should be equal rights and opportunities. We are being edjumacated.

When it comes to applying for jobs then quotas have to be filled and what can a well educated white think when a token black or asian is given the job... it is a sort of reverse discrimination.

"Is it because me is white that me don't get this job"

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Many years ago MrsNW was refused access to a programme to cover her professional accountancy training costs by her employer (a local authority) on the basis that she was white and did not qualify under their “positive discrimination” programme.....there was no other criteria applied other than race and not even the opportunity to apply and be judged on merit - I could never understand how this helped anybody.

[Irish Ian]

Keith Andrews was his usual concillatory self pre game today.

"Only eightgames" he lamented.

The GIT.

Is that racist?