The "January" Transfer Window 20/21 season

[CHAPELALLMAN]

More than 12 months since he left the club and people on here are still arguing about the sale of Pontus Jansson. Jeez.
I loved him at Leeds and was shocked when we sold him but he's moved on and so should people on here.
I think the Ben White deal is probably dead in the water now so hopefully the club have turned their attention elsewhere.

I think the subject came up because ;

1) Some people are questioning why we would want to pay 30m for White when Jansson was sold for 5m.

2) We are less than a month from the start of the season and we only have one established centre-back at the club ( and one established centre forward for that matter )

[SG90]

Tbh I probably started all this Jansson stuff as I didn't agree promotion was all because of Ben White and that we'd not have gone up if we kept Jansson.

[Fridge]

I think the subject came up because ;

1) Some people are questioning why we would want to pay 30m for White when Jansson was sold for 5m.

2) We are less than a month from the start of the season and we only have one established centre-back at the club ( and one established centre forward for that matter )

1) White is younger, better and has a much better attitude (Still not worth £30m imo)

2) On this point, I’d much rather have 2 £15m CBs than one £30m CB. 2 experienced CBs is simply not enough (even with Phillips, Struijk, Ayling for CB cover)

[SG90]

Gazetta dello Sport linking us with Nahitan Nandez. We were linked last year but didn't go up obviously. He moved from Boca Juniors last year to Caligari last summer, who are owned by...... Cellino.

[John in Louisiana]

A cancer who Bielsa described as in May 2019 as ' Leeds' best player in the Championship in the 2018/19 season. '

People do fall out unfortunately, but sometimes they can resolve differences. This means that JKA could never be integrated into the squad if we have to buy him, as apparently Bielsa didn't like his attitude. Wilko didn't like Cantona's attitude, so sold him for 1.2m and thereby kickstarted the Man U dominance of the 1990s....

"Cancer" was probably too strong a word, and I'm not disputing Pontus is an excellent player. He's really good and fun to watch. I thoroughly enjoyed every moment he was on the pitch for us up until that moment against Villa. But nobody can put himself above the manager, especially when the manager is someone of the stature of a Bielsa.

[LUFC_BOS]

Just thinking out loud.

Could MB be a hinderence when signing players?

Obviously he is a well respected coach but he also is very specific.

If you dont fit his style, fitness etc absolutely perfectly then you wont play at all (JKA) or will only make the bench (Eddie)

Only when he feels you do will you start and that can take months or never happen.

If your Said Benrahma, Emi Buendia, Ebe Eze etc players who have been playing well regularly for other teams and we come in for you, would that perhaps put players off?

Players talk, see the news, they know what happened to JKA, Eddie etc, some may find it a worthy risk and challenge to break into MB's plans and work with him. He is one of the most respected coaches around especially when it comes to improving players.

But others, maybe it puts them off?

Go to Villa, West Ham, Palace, probably get more money and be practically guaranteed a game.

Not suggesting MB is wrong and he wouldn't care anyway, but just a thought.

You have expressed it very well. There is a certain period of time needed by each new player to play in Biesla's team. Four to five weeks is not going to make a new transfer "available" to be able to make a meaningful impact to the team. So I am with you , the team style, idiom and mechanics have to be meticulously aligned like a precision watch for the team to march time in perfect unison for Bielsaball. Hence my assertion that players will have to be trialed before they are accepted into our team. When everything is in harmony its a beautiful sight to behold, the down side is that each part has to be precision made/tutored to fit. Therein lies the issue with the way we are set up. So I for one expect no change in our 1st 11 apart from forced changes augmented by our bench and U23 for the better part of half to quarter of our season.
Net new influx will be drilled and have to pass extensive examination before being allowed to effect the Leeds machine. This is the conundrum of our Coach's team make up ,very selective and be able to replace a part in a perfect machine. The stakes are too high for MB to mess with his system. I empathise with a lot of folks who forward names of players that would be a fit, but the system dictates a longer time to bed in , pass the test and slowely acclaimaitise to match play. The longer BM has time, the quicker the uptake.
Question is , are other coaches more adapt at aligning new talent to their system than BM ?
For those with their quills at the ready, I am a huge BM fan, and love the way we play. I am only questioning the ability to add new talent fast enough to the the 1st 11 to make a difference in the first 8 to 12 games given the constraints and rigor that is required.

[Richard]

You have expressed it very well. There is a certain period of time needed by each new player to play in Biesla's team. Four to five weeks is not going to make a new transfer "available" to be able to make a meaningful impact to the team. So I am with you , the team style, idiom and mechanics have to be meticulously aligned like a precision watch for the team to march time in perfect unison for Bielsaball. Hence my assertion that players will have to be trialed before they are accepted into our team. When everything is in harmony its a beautiful sight to behold, the down side is that each part has to be precision made/tutored to fit. Therein lies the issue with the way we are set up. So I for one expect no change in our 1st 11 apart from forced changes augmented by our bench and U23 for the better part of half to quarter of our season.
Net new influx will be drilled and have to pass extensive examination before being allowed to effect the Leeds machine. This is the conundrum of our Coach's team make up ,very selective and be able to replace a part in a perfect machine. The stakes are too high for MB to mess with his system. I empathise with a lot of folks who forward names of players that would be a fit, but the system dictates a longer time to bed in , pass the test and slowely acclaimaitise to match play. The longer BM has time, the quicker the uptake.
Question is , are other coaches more adapt at aligning new talent to their system than BM ?
For those with their quills at the ready, I am a huge BM fan, and love the way we play. I am only questioning the ability to add new talent fast enough to the the 1st 11 to make a difference in the first 8 to 12 games given the constraints and rigor that is required.

Both yourself and cjay make great points and I’m not disagreeing with either of you, I do have one bit that sticks in my head though.

Before Bielsa we were an average Championship side. Bielsa came in and took the exact same players and turned them into the team we have now in just one preseason. We beat Stoke 3-1 then we stuffed Derby and our jaws were on the floor wondering how he’d managed to make us look like Barcelona.

I fail to understand how he freezes out any new arrivals as they are not “Bielsa” fit yet when he took over he transformed an entire team in a very short amount of time

[LeedsLover]

You have expressed it very well. There is a certain period of time needed by each new player to play in Biesla's team. Four to five weeks is not going to make a new transfer "available" to be able to make a meaningful impact to the team. So I am with you , the team style, idiom and mechanics have to be meticulously aligned like a precision watch for the team to march time in perfect unison for Bielsaball. Hence my assertion that players will have to be trialed before they are accepted into our team. When everything is in harmony its a beautiful sight to behold, the down side is that each part has to be precision made/tutored to fit. Therein lies the issue with the way we are set up. So I for one expect no change in our 1st 11 apart from forced changes augmented by our bench and U23 for the better part of half to quarter of our season.
Net new influx will be drilled and have to pass extensive examination before being allowed to effect the Leeds machine. This is the conundrum of our Coach's team make up ,very selective and be able to replace a part in a perfect machine. The stakes are too high for MB to mess with his system. I empathise with a lot of folks who forward names of players that would be a fit, but the system dictates a longer time to bed in , pass the test and slowely acclaimaitise to match play. The longer BM has time, the quicker the uptake.
Question is , are other coaches more adapt at aligning new talent to their system than BM ?
For those with their quills at the ready, I am a huge BM fan, and love the way we play. I am only questioning the ability to add new talent fast enough to the the 1st 11 to make a difference in the first 8 to 12 games given the constraints and rigor that is required.

It's a like from me, and a like from him....
...........................................................................................

I'm in agreement with most of what you wrote Bos.

While we all agree Bielsa is a good coach (great has yet to be achieved), and he's good at improving/transforming players and getting the team to play good football, he's not without his flaws, no manager/coach is.

One of Bielsa's biggest flaws, imo, is his stubbornness, and yet to be tested in the PL. The PL is probably the biggest football arena he has, and will be involved in.

Bielsa did well to get us out the Championship, but not without its drawbacks. We stuttered slightly during 2 games towards end, other coaches have outcoached him during games, he has a tendency to keep playing same 11 players, irrespective of form, and has no plan B other than working harder at plan A, on top of that, he's stubborn.

If Bielsa has recognised a player as being able to fit in his team and type of football, why does he have to test them out for around 5 weeks before they get a start, even though they may get on bench a couple of times..........If we're bleeding points, and Bielsa brings in another couple of players during Jan transfer window they'll probably have to wait 4 or 5 weeks for a start, and only if Bielsa thinks they're up to speed and good enough, if they're not, they'll get left out or sit on bench.

The PL is a whole new ball game, team wise, player wise, football wise and coach wise, it'll be a whole new learning curve for both players and Bielsa.

Bielsa is going to be outcoached in a lot of games, and scoring with our present 3 forwards is going to be a lot harder unless Bielsa can recognise and adjust to the Prem.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some players go out on loan, or up for sale in Jan transfer window.

[LeedsLover]

Just thinking out loud.

Could MB be a hinderence when signing players?

Obviously he is a well respected coach but he also is very specific.

If you dont fit his style, fitness etc absolutely perfectly then you wont play at all (JKA) or will only make the bench (Eddie)

Only when he feels you do will you start and that can take months or never happen.

If your Said Benrahma, Emi Buendia, Ebe Eze etc players who have been playing well regularly for other teams and we come in for you, would that perhaps put players off?

Players talk, see the news, they know what happened to JKA, Eddie etc, some may find it a worthy risk and challenge to break into MB's plans and work with him. He is one of the most respected coaches around especially when it comes to improving players.

But others, maybe it puts them off?

Go to Villa, West Ham, Palace, probably get more money and be practically guaranteed a game.

Not suggesting MB is wrong and he wouldn't care anyway, but just a thought.

It's a like from me, and a like from him...

[The Subhuman]

Not strictly true that new players have to wait to play. Barry Douglas came straight in the side upon signing for one, Casilla also.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

"Cancer" was probably too strong a word, and I'm not disputing Pontus is an excellent player. He's really good and fun to watch. I thoroughly enjoyed every moment he was on the pitch for us up until that moment against Villa. But nobody can put himself above the manager, especially when the manager is someone of the stature of a Bielsa.

Most top managers are very strong willed, and often quite authoritarian. Wilko and Bielsa are quite similar in their approach - demanding total compliance and obedience from their players, and working to a very rigid system without room for much flexibility. Both demand or demanded that players be at a particularly high level of fitness - Wilko would have the players regularly doing cross country runs. Wilko transformed a mediocre side very quickly, as has Bielsa. Revie was slightly different, in that he saw the players and staff at the club more as one big family, and he was much closer personally to the players than either Wilko or Bielsa have ever been. Wilko and Bielsa have also have in common an unusually high degree of attention to detail and meticulous planning to the point of OCD. Wilko was always reading and writing notes during matches.

Wilko and Cantona didn't really get on, as Cantona was more of a free spirited type of player, whereas Wilko wanted players who would follow his every instruction, and who would fit exactly within his system of play. In the end they clashed badly, and Wilko wanted shot of him. He was sold for a paltry and ridiculous 1.2m to you-know-who, and the rest is history.

What is interesting is that another very authoritarian manager - Alex Ferguson, adapted his interpersonal approach when dealing with Cantona. He gave him far more slack than the other players because he recognised his very special abilities. Clearly the style of play suited Cantona more than it did under Wilko's management, and he flourished as a player. Even when Cantona did his kung fu kick and got a long ban, Ferguson stood by him and didn't even criticise him in public. He was integrated back into the team when he came back and he played better than ever thereafter.

Perhaps Bielsa can learn something from the time that Wilko was manager - they are very similar in their approach and in their personalities, but Wilko learnt the hard way that sometimes there has to be a degree of flexibility in one's approach. Even today some remember him more as the fool who sold Cantona for just over a million quid rather thah the brilliant manager who won the 1992 title for Leeds.

Wlko's fortunes are also a bit of a cautionary tale for Bielsa - one reason why I am not getting too caught up in the current manic euphoria, and why I don't think that Bielsa quite walks on water yet. When Wilko took over the club had endured a diabolical 6 or 7 years in the old second division. He took over with the side close to the bottom of division 2 yet he transformed them within a year or two into division 2 champions. In the first year back in the top tier they finished an amazing 4th, and then - staggeringly - 1st division champions a year later. The change in fortunes was incredible. Yet the next season they were nearly relegated, and they didn't win a single away game all season. A few seasons later Wilko was sacked - unthinkable back in 1992.

Watching the adulation directed towards Bielsa now, I can't help wondering what the reaction would be had the fans just witnessed what Wilko had achieved by May 1992 in such a short time. Wilko probably only got a fraction of the adulation which Bielsa is now enjoying. The cautionary tale for Bielsa is that fortunes at the club can change very quickly for managers, and today's cheers can become tomorrow's jeers rather quickly.

[weasel]

Wilko and Cantona didn't really get on, as Cantona was more of a free spirited type of player, whereas Wilko wanted players who would follow his every instruction, and who would fit exactly within his system of play. In the end they clashed badly, and Wilko wanted shot of him. He was sold for a paltry and ridiculous 1.2m to you-know-who, and the rest is history.

What is interesting is that another very authoritarian manager - Alex Ferguson, adapted his interpersonal approach when dealing with Cantona. He gave him far more slack than the other players because he recognised his very special abilities. Clearly the style of play suited Cantona more than it did under Wilko's management, and he flourished as a player. Even when Cantona did his kung fu kick and got a long ban, Ferguson stood by him and didn't even criticise him in public. He was integrated back into the team when he came back and he played better than ever thereafter.

Too simplistic a view. What you also have to consider is the players in those relative squads. Wilko's Leeds side was predominantly experienced pros who had been around the block a bit. As such they would be less tolerant of a jumped up primadona like Cantona. Even if you consider the youthful Batty he was a tough no nonsense Yorkshireman who wouldn't really be enamoured with a sulky Frenchman poncing around. We'd also won the title predominantly without Cantona yet even many Leeds fans seem to credit it all to Cantona and didn't give the rest of the team the praise they deserved. I think a lot of players at Leeds probably resented him so it boiled down to do you replace the bulk of the first team or sell Cantona?

At Man U the squad was different. You had flair youngsters like Giggs and Sharpe in the side who would have been wowed by Cantona's tricks in training. You also had the fact they had bottled the title the season before so any help would be welcomed with open arms. It was a squad that welcomed him with open arms instead of a squad who wanted rid of him.

[weasel]

Not strictly true that new players have to wait to play. Barry Douglas came straight in the side upon signing for one, Casilla also.

Also Ben White came in and played straightaway. I don't think Berardi was injured at the start of last season so it was Bielsa's choice to play him. I do think certain positions are easy to adapt to with centrebacks and keeper definitely the easiest as there is far less movement round the pitch for them to do. Wingers are probably the trickiest to fit in as they have to know where to be on the pitch at all points of the match wherever the ball is and wherever their team mates are, covering the fullbacks, popping up on the opposite side of the penalty area etc.

[SG90]

Phil Hay saying we're interested in Batshuayi. Would be a great signing, but he wouldn't come to sit on the bench.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Phil Hay saying we're interested in Batshuayi. Would be a great signing, but he wouldn't come to sit on the bench.

I think he'd be good. We know (and he knows) he'll start on the bench. But he'd be in the first term within about a month.

Question - are we signing or loaning?

[SG90]

I think he'd be good. We know (and he knows) he'll start on the bench. But he'd be in the first term within about a month.

Question - are we signing or loaning?

He only has one year left, so it'd have to be permanent. Knowing Chelsea, they'd demand £30m for him.

[Cjay]

Celtic want Barry Douglas apparently.

Be thrilled if we could get a few million for him.

[1964white]

Also Ben White came in and played straightaway. I don't think Berardi was injured at the start of last season so it was Bielsa's choice to play him.

With Pontus gone & Berardi suspended Bielsa had no choice but to start Ben White, turned out lovely in the end

[Cjay]

Phil Hay said on his podcast.

Ben White offers were £18mil and £22mil up front with additional add ons. Brighton said no and are simply not interested in doing a deal atm and are talking with Ben over a new deal.

Also for some strange reason we seem to think we can get Benrahma for £12-15mil which in todays daft market would be really good business but also sounds like us vastly underestimating the inflated domestic market.

Aside from that PH says he hasnt heard any significant movement transfer wise including with Benrahma and White, so not expecting any deals in the next dew days.

[The Subhuman]

Also Ben White came in and played straightaway. I don't think Berardi was injured at the start of last season so it was Bielsa's choice to play him. I do think certain positions are easy to adapt to with centrebacks and keeper definitely the easiest as there is far less movement round the pitch for them to do. Wingers are probably the trickiest to fit in as they have to know where to be on the pitch at all points of the match wherever the ball is and wherever their team mates are, covering the fullbacks, popping up on the opposite side of the penalty area etc.

IIRC Berardi was suspended for the first game or two. I think the CB is one of the hardest to bed in, as they have to be on the same wavelength as the keeper and partner CB plus the DMF...Wingers the easiest to bed in for me.