Coronavirus

[rab_rant]

The characteristics of an initiation ritual or being transformed by the renewing of your mind and not for the better.

Consider how lockdown and restrictions have influenced the way that you think and behave... are you being manipulated?

https://youtu.be/3RVG8qNLdoY

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[1964white]

How long will football fans put up with the nonsense and how long can a socially distanced chain of football supporters stretch, before government finally takes notice?

What nonsense?

I'm a fanatic (home & away) even over the rubbish years pre-Bielsa rarely missing a game. however I'm prepared to make sacrifices not watching my beloved Leeds, bl**dy ironic that I can't support my team the year reach the premier league, unfortunately I & all my Leeds pals (who I actually miss) have to accept the decisions & responsibility required to our fellow fans

This second wave is re-occurring because of all the jollying which has gone on during the summer months.

Apart from my business calls, supermarket shop at 7am (once a week) I'm going nowhere in the next few months.

[weasel]

This second wave is re-occurring because of all the jollying which has gone on during the summer months.

Apart from my business calls, supermarket shop at 7am (once a week) I'm going nowhere in the next few months.

It isn't though as those events would have brought a rise in cases there and then. not a few months later. There wasn't a spike in Liverpool after they celebrated winning the title, likewise there wasn't an immediate spike in Leeds after fans celebrated together after winning promotion.

What we have seen is something that was inevitable and that is that there would be spikes and outbreaks cropping up because the virus won't simply go away. That was why the lockdown was ineffective, simply a stalling tactic rather than a proper solution. Having spikes in many ways is actually a good thing as it means people are finding out quickly that they have the virus an can then act appropriately, i.e. self isolate for a couple of weeks. It also means more people are getting tested despite showing minimal symptoms as hospitals are not showing an increase in admissions. Whereas initially you had to have severe symptoms before you could get a test now people are getting tested if they have been in contact with someone who has the virus - as such it is very easy for 1 person to have given it to several people who then have been able to have a test and test positive despite no symptoms (in Oldham over 30 cases were linked to one household and their close friends and family). This means that a much larger outbreak can be slowed or stopped, it doesn't need lockdowns but just sensible behaviour from those who think they may have the virus.

We also have people going around with false confidence from wearing facemasks despite most scientific advise suggesting they don't make any difference. As such whereas before we saw restrictions on the amount of people in shops etc now it is just back to being a free for all with people wrongly assuming that because they have a mask on they are safe.

The main issue is still the same that people with weaker immune systems are still far more at risk than the general population that are as likely to die in a car crash as they are to die of covid - protect the vulnerable and let the rest of the country go on as normal and allow people to do stuff at their own risk - we aren't banning people from driving. Shutting down the economy and putting the country in lockdown will not stop the virus it will merely slow it down for a few weeks before it then comes back again - same as what has already happened. Why does this country simply repeat the same mistakes?

[rab_rant]

just read that dentists are reporting problems from people wearing masks bad breath, receding gums, gingivitis tooth decay so dental hygiene is somehow being compromised.

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[1964white]

It isn't though as those events would have brought a rise in cases there and then. not a few months later. There wasn't a spike in Liverpool after they celebrated winning the title, likewise there wasn't an immediate spike in Leeds after fans celebrated together after winning promotion.

What we have seen is something that was inevitable and that is that there would be spikes and outbreaks cropping up because the virus won't simply go away. That was why the lockdown was ineffective, simply a stalling tactic rather than a proper solution. Having spikes in many ways is actually a good thing as it means people are finding out quickly that they have the virus an can then act appropriately, i.e. self isolate for a couple of weeks. It also means more people are getting tested despite showing minimal symptoms as hospitals are not showing an increase in admissions. Whereas initially you had to have severe symptoms before you could get a test now people are getting tested if they have been in contact with someone who has the virus - as such it is very easy for 1 person to have given it to several people who then have been able to have a test and test positive despite no symptoms (in Oldham over 30 cases were linked to one household and their close friends and family). This means that a much larger outbreak can be slowed or stopped, it doesn't need lockdowns but just sensible behaviour from those who think they may have the virus.

We also have people going around with false confidence from wearing facemasks despite most scientific advise suggesting they don't make any difference. As such whereas before we saw restrictions on the amount of people in shops etc now it is just back to being a free for all with people wrongly assuming that because they have a mask on they are safe.

The main issue is still the same that people with weaker immune systems are still far more at risk than the general population that are as likely to die in a car crash as they are to die of covid - protect the vulnerable and let the rest of the country go on as normal and allow people to do stuff at their own risk - we aren't banning people from driving. Shutting down the economy and putting the country in lockdown will not stop the virus it will merely slow it down for a few weeks before it then comes back again - same as what has already happened. Why does this country simply repeat the same mistakes?

Spain & the UK in trouble again

Both countries opened their borders in the summer

650,000 Brits visited during one week in Spain, travel to & fro has caused much infectrion.

We opened air-travel all over the world not closing our borders as some countries have, if you put 300 people on a plane diseases will spread. Quarantine measures haven't been adhered adequately too!

We are one of few countries certainly in Europe where we have ten to fifteen family members living in one house, if millions of families curtailed their breeding or these families showed responsibility to their loved ones we wouldn't have such problems , crazy situation!

New Zealand shut down their borders totally, now they are Covid-free. I have much respect for Jacinda Adhern a very compassionate lady, I wish she was running our country.

Even China are claiming they haven't had many cases since May, unconvinced about that fact though

[1964white]

Respect for this gentleman too!

[weasel]

Spain & the UK in trouble again

Both countries opened their borders in the summer

650,000 Brits visited during one week in Spain, travel to & fro has caused much infectrion.

We opened air-travel all over the world not closing our borders as some countries have, if you put 300 people on a plane diseases will spread. Quarantine measures haven't been adhered adequately too!

We are one of few countries certainly in Europe where we have ten to fifteen family members living in one house, if millions of families curtailed their breeding or these families showed responsibility to their loved ones we wouldn't have such problems , crazy situation!

New Zealand shut down their borders totally, now they are Covid-free. I have much respect for Jacinda Adhern a very compassionate lady, I wish she was running our country.

Even China are claiming they haven't had many cases since May, unconvinced about that fact though

Spain regularly has 2 or 3 generations of family all living in the same house as such it makes more sense for their younger people to act responsibly so they don't infect their grandparents. Different scenario in the UK where it is far more likely for parents and children only to share the same house - but equally if you see your older parents or grandparents often then act sensibly (I saw my Dad for the first time since pre-lockdown on Saturday and we met outside, went to the beach with the kids then a park so as to lessen the risk).

I do feel to compare us with New Zealand is like comparing apples and elephants. New Zealand is nowhere near as densely populated and doubt anywhere near as many people travel to New Zealand for business reasons as they do to the UK. That said I would happily swop BJ for Jacinda Adhern as our leadership has been catastrophic.

Sweden for me has throughout had the most sensible approach, good advice and letting people do things at their own risk. True they had a lot of deaths early on but over 75% of those were in nursing homes which a lockdown wouldn't have prevented - protecting the vulnerable has been a big failing throughout the world. The key really is in accepting that the virus won't simply go away and as such trying to control it by keeping things constant not changing the rules everyday which simply leads to spikes, then lows then spikes again.

[The Subhuman]

Of course we're being manipulated, treated like we're thick. You only have to look at the s**t load of propaganda dished up daily..and if freedom of speech is under threat then that's another indicator.

Has anyone considered that this spike is occurring after the enforced wearing of face masks which if you watch encourages people to constantly touch their face. My partner has a face mask rash under her chin, as an asthmatic and mouth breather I have to constantly adjust the mask to get clean air and not re- breath my carbon dioxide.

[The Subhuman]

Do we think we need to merge the two covid threads, it's a contentious enough issue as it is without opening a second front. Hectors original post about panic buying seems to have been long forgotten

[1964white]

Sweden for me has throughout had the most sensible approach, good advice and letting people do things at their own risk. True they had a lot of deaths early on but over 75% of those were in nursing homes which a lockdown wouldn't have prevented - protecting the vulnerable has been a big failing throughout the world. The key really is in accepting that the virus won't simply go away and as such trying to control it by keeping things constant not changing the rules everyday which simply leads to spikes, then lows then spikes again.

More people in Sweden live on their own more than in any other country, whereas households in the UK are overcrowded, there lies a major problem!

Agree Covid is not going away, unfortunately we have far too many irresponsible people living in our society to eradicate much of the infection rate so we'll just have to live with it until a vaccine is found which may cure this horrible disease!

[1964white]

Do we think we need to merge the two covid threads, it's a contentious enough issue as it is without opening a second front. Hectors original post about panic buying seems to have been long forgotten

Hector started the topic

I nearly merged the topic the other day but I thought I'd let it run it's course!

[Muppet the Cat]

Do we think we need to merge the two covid threads, it's a contentious enough issue as it is without opening a second front. Hectors original post about panic buying seems to have been long forgotten

Indeed.

I clicked on the thread just anticipating one of Hector's photos of an empty supermarket toilet roll shelf

[1964white]

Of course we're being manipulated, treated like we're thick. You only have to look at the s**t load of propaganda dished up daily..and if freedom of speech is under threat then that's another indicator.

Has anyone considered that this spike is occurring after the enforced wearing of face masks which if you watch encourages people to constantly touch their face. My partner has a face mask rash under her chin, as an asthmatic and mouth breather I have to constantly adjust the mask to get clean air and not re- breath my carbon dioxide.

Possibly

Jill washes our masks after wearing them only once

[The Subhuman]

We use the ones you buy at the chemist..

[liggy]

Respect for this gentleman too!

M......is he a proper doctor must be hard getting an early morning appointment with him mind
He seems to be a bit like that dr on emmerdale farm hes always in the corner shop or the pub or knocking off one of the dolly birds.. doing owt but practice medicine.

Ps
If lockdown 2 happens so be it life gans on
We all played street bingo in LD1 shouting the numbers out with a loudhailer and paying good money out until some knacker from a different street acused me of fixing the raffle.
Everyone has been asking if we'll do it again if we get LD2 ...drinking cans and shouting hoosey outdoors(2 meters that's 6'3"apart) is good for the soul.......ends

[Sara]

as an asthmatic and mouth breather I have to constantly adjust the mask to get clean air and not re- breath my carbon dioxide.

You can get an exemption badge from the Hidden Disabilities website if you have asthma. You have to put up with people looking at you like you murdered their granny, but I'm used to that, and it's better than wearing a mask.

B520E6B3-4FE8-42EB-AE09-4B1B78D54174.jpeg

[Sara]

This second wave is re-occurring because of all the jollying which has gone on during the summer months.

There's no evidence for this, it's just comforting to have someone to blame.

[weasel]

There's no evidence for this, it's just comforting to have someone to blame.

Indeed. Where were the spikes after the masses gathered on beaches, after illegal raves, after hundreds or thousands of fans celebrated in close proximity without masks?

Spikes are being blown out of all proportion. 1 person gets it and can easily pass it on to 30 people quickly without doing anything out of the ordinary. It doesn't mean that there is a problem as these people have been tested and know they have it so they will avoid spreading it. The reason it spread faster initially was because people weren't able to get tested so the virus spread. As such it is easier to slow down infections after spikes now without lockdowns - if anyone thinks the rate slowed in Oldham due to increased restrictions they are deluded as the vast majority of people still mingled with extended family, friends etc - it slowed because the majority of people who caught it were tested quickly and could then self isolate.

We now get ridiculous advice which suggest only people with symptoms should get tested as we still don't have enough testing capacity. This though can be catastrophic as if you have symptoms you are likely to self isolate regardless of whether you have had a test. If you don't have symptoms though you may have the virus and because you don't have symptoms and haven't been tested you will be far likelier to pass it on as you will be carrying on your normal business. What we need is increased testing whereby people who have no symptoms are regularly tested - just like what happened when football restarted and all the players were tested every couple of days even though they had no symptoms.

[Cjay]

RIP Covid.

[Sara]

Agree with your comments entirely, Weasel. I've said from day one widespread testing is what's needed. It seems likely that many more will have had it and recovered than is known, and that skews all the rest of the data.

I had it through Jan and Feb, numerous others were ill over Christmas. With proper antibody testing and research on immunity, those who have had it could be back to normal. I suspect we would also have a different view of how serious it is in that context.

It's not really a viral problem at all, it's an immunity problem. The vast majority of people are mildly affected, or not at all. Again, that would be the most productive line of research imo, but it's clearly more profitable to develop a vaccine, so that is the line we will take.