Coronavirus

[Smudge3920]

Weasel wrote...
They do but going in and out of lockdown and ruining small businesses is not the answer.

It is because people do not follow the simple guidelines set TO AVOID LOCKDOWNS.

Then...
Plenty of people blaming the 'selfish youth' but I don't see it that way

It is not all youth, but it is a lot of them, plus a good portion from the 30 and 40 years old age group. Hell I even know a few senior's who are rebelling.

and further...
What is selfish about simply living normally and risking getting a virus that will likely affect them less than a common cold would?

It is selfish for the following reasons...
1. By ignoring the "simple" guidelines, it is not helping to reduce the spread of the virus.
2. Being fit and healthy, and having a strong immune system to the virus is great, that "less than a common cold" you talk about, you can still pass it on, to strangers, family and if you do visit the hospital for any reason risk the front line workers becoming infected thus reducing the capacity for helping those who need it... I know this to be true as 3 of our major hospitals in the province of Alberta are in lockdown due to staff infections. They are trying to cope by locking down whole floors and trying to maintain as much as the hospital function as possible... How many nursing staff and Dr's are in there 60's and above?... a small percentage, the majority are in the 20 to 50 age group... The result is people (of all age groups) requiring other major surgeries (non covid related) are not receiving them, for many it will be very detrimental.

then this...
what harm is there in it spreading through people who won't get many symptoms

That statement show's , at best a lack of thought, at worst a total ignorance of what is going on.

Gets better...
So why not let the general population continue as normal and use the money,

So the older generation, and those with compromised immune system's (for many other reason's other than this virus... You think are not part of the population? And should be quite happy to let the majority of the population carry on as if nothing is happening with an "I am alright jack" attitude?

then...
Because this continued bungling through it won't protect people who need protecting

It would if people followed the simple guidelines.(Protect (more) being the operative word)

it won't enable the vulnerable to live a safer existence.

It would if people followed the simple guidelines. (Safer being the operative word)

In 1914, all our youth went to war with the promise of being home by Christmas, as we all know that didn't happen... yet it did not stop them doing their duty for the next 4 years. Then as that show ended, the nation (and the world) was dealing with the Spanish flu... many died in the first wave, but guess what many more died in the second wave, in the end over 500 million people infected in 4 successive waves. (World population then close to 50% less than now)

That is what we are trying to avoid now.

So those unselfish youths, and those unselfish older generations who support them, crack on with their "binge drinking session's, parties and mass gatherings see how we get on.

All we have to do is learn from history, follow some simple guidelines (and they really are simple) to help stop the spread whilst the boffins get on with finding the solution....It may take some time, the virus don't care we just need to work together on this instead of fighting each other... It really is common sense, as simple as that.

Selfish... ADJECTIVE
(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

Unity
the state of being united or joined as a whole

Viruses are non partisan, no idea what politic's are, no idea what money and profit is, they do not just "fade away" as some suggest and hope... they mutate and come back even worse than before... WE HAVE TO STOP THEM

[1964white]

Problem for me is people with healthy immune systems (who may not be at risk) passing it on to family members who have not got a healthy immune system and are at risk. Surely our elderly/ill family members need protecting....don't they?

You would think so Swannie, right now I truly despair with what I'm reading on this subject.

[Smudge3920]

right now I truly despair with what I'm reading on this subject.

You and me both '64, It is truly mind blowing how many are treating this virus so lightly.

[hector]

You would think so Swannie, right now I truly despair with what I'm reading on this subject.

And me...............

[gessa]

It is because people do not follow the simple guidelines set TO AVOID LOCKDOWNS.



It is not all youth, but it is a lot of them, plus a good portion from the 30 and 40 years old age group. Hell I even know a few senior's who are rebelling.



It is selfish for the following reasons...
1. By ignoring the "simple" guidelines, it is not helping to reduce the spread of the virus.
2. Being fit and healthy, and having a strong immune system to the virus is great, that "less than a common cold" you talk about, you can still pass it on, to strangers, family and if you do visit the hospital for any reason risk the front line workers becoming infected thus reducing the capacity for helping those who need it... I know this to be true as 3 of our major hospitals in the province of Alberta are in lockdown due to staff infections. They are trying to cope by locking down whole floors and trying to maintain as much as the hospital function as possible... How many nursing staff and Dr's are in there 60's and above?... a small percentage, the majority are in the 20 to 50 age group... The result is people (of all age groups) requiring other major surgeries (non covid related) are not receiving them, for many it will be very detrimental.



That statement show's , at best a lack of thought, at worst a total ignorance of what is going on.



So the older generation, and those with compromised immune system's (for many other reason's other than this virus... You think are not part of the population? And should be quite happy to let the majority of the population carry on as if nothing is happening with an "I am alright jack" attitude?



It would if people followed the simple guidelines.(Protect (more) being the operative word)



It would if people followed the simple guidelines. (Safer being the operative word)

In 1914, all our youth went to war with the promise of being home by Christmas, as we all know that didn't happen... yet it did not stop them doing their duty for the next 4 years. Then as that show ended, the nation (and the world) was dealing with the Spanish flu... many died in the first wave, but guess what many more died in the second wave, in the end over 500 million people infected in 4 successive waves. (World population then close to 50% less than now)

That is what we are trying to avoid now.

So those unselfish youths, and those unselfish older generations who support them, crack on with their "binge drinking session's, parties and mass gatherings see how we get on.

All we have to do is learn from history, follow some simple guidelines (and they really are simple) to help stop the spread whilst the boffins get on with finding the solution....It may take some time, the virus don't care we just need to work together on this instead of fighting each other... It really is common sense, as simple as that.

Selfish... ADJECTIVE
(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

Unity
the state of being united or joined as a whole

Viruses are non partisan, no idea what politic's are, no idea what money and profit is, they do not just "fade away" as some suggest and hope... they mutate and come back even worse than before... WE HAVE TO STOP THEM

Like

[1964white]

They'll soon change their tune if they lose any of their family of friends to this horrible disease

Like so many folk, Jill & I have made so many sacrifices since March. I envisage our lives over the next few months leading up to Christmas will be working from home, going for a four mile walk in & out of our village which is bliss right now as the road has been closed for the next six months due to a combine harvester taking out a wall of a bridge into the river. Apart from our weekly supermarket shop at 7am on a Thursday morning we'll remain at home.

We've cancelled a weekend to Monmouthshire in October which is a real shame as we haven't seen one of our best friends for a year now

We're happy with our restricted lives shame others can't show the same restraint

[rab_rant]

You would think so Swannie, right now I truly despair with what I'm reading on this subject.

We are split into two camps the masked and the fearful living in lockdown, who berate anyone not living the same way as they do, or fail to comply to government regulations and restrictions.

And those that believe that bad science leads to bad lives, and bad decisions.

Firstly the statistics of professor Neil Ferguson from Imperial college London have been found to be seriously flawed and those statistics have been used to enforce lockdown, and secondly the hastily run clinical trials of a vaccine for Covid by AstraZeneca which have been found to have deleterious side effects.

I find it incongruous that those who espouse lockdown for the prevention of the spread of covid are also the ones who would refuse to be a vaccinated.

This displays a high degree of cognitive dissonance where the person holds contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, such as being protected from the virus through masks and lockdown, yet when offered protection through a vaccine turn it down. Typically when you hold two conflicting view points you will experience a certain degree of psychological stress... which is not good for your immune system

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[hector]

I find it incongruous that those who espouse lockdown for the prevention of the spread of covid are also the ones who would refuse to be a vaccinated.

I would too,

were there to be any facts to support this statement...

[rab_rant]

I would too,

were there to be any facts to support this statement...

Hector, my dear, I am only going by what you yourself have said, and extrapolated it to the general population of mask users. Smudge, 64, and yourself are lockdown enthusiasts yet I believe that all of you would be dubious about getting vaccinated. Am i wrong?

is it transhumanism that you fear?
the incorporation of foreign genetic material into your genome through transfection... hydrogel Nano technology... bioluminescent luciferinase to prove that you have been vaccinated.

what exactly are your concerns? why have any fears when you so implicitly trust big science to rule every aspect of your lockdown life.

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[hector]

Hector, my dear, I am only going by what you yourself have said, and extrapolated it to the general population of mask users. Smudge, 64, and yourself are lockdown enthusiasts yet I believe that all of you would be dubious about getting vaccinated. Am i wrong?

YES you are ............ on my behalf anyhoo.....

I was in the army for a lot of years............ I have been vaccinated with all sorts, so one more ain't gonna worry me..

I have also never seen anyone else say that they would not be vaccinated once there was a reliable one available.

[rab_rant]

YES you are ............ on my behalf anyhoo.....

I was in the army for a lot of years............ I have been vaccinated with all sorts, so one more ain't gonna worry me..

I have also never seen anyone else say that they would not be vaccinated once there was a reliable one available.

What I have heard though on this BB, is that people who have taken the simple flu shot have had adverse effects to it, and would not take covid vaccine if offered it.

In the states it has been said that as soon as a vaccine is available then it will be mandatory for the population in general to take it.

Where then does this leave the people who refused to take it does it criminalize them, and would they be viewed as a public health risk?

Masks and isolation today, vaccines tomorrow, would be the way to stigmatize dissenters.

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[hector]

You are going way out of my knowlege and reading on this now Rab.....

and I am not going to speculate on what goes on in America, after all their buffoon leader changes his mind as often as he changes his mistress'

[rab_rant]

They'll soon change their tune if they lose any of their family of friends to this horrible disease

It would also be ironic if those that obeyed the government rules and regulations to a T and we're vaccinated with a Covid vaccine became incapacitated with some neurological disease and all because of their obedience. That would be a bigger tragedy.

Think Thalidomide, something intended for good but gave bad results.


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[The Subhuman]

Trump is in full election mode where he'll say whatever it takes to get re-elected

[The Subhuman]

When tghe vaccine becomes available (and it will have been rushed) maybe wait a year till we get the initial results. The odds of Corona killing you are very very very small especially if you're cautious.

[becchio bear]

YES you are ............ on my behalf anyhoo.....

I was in the army for a lot of years............ I have been vaccinated with all sorts, so one more ain't gonna worry me..

I have also never seen anyone else say that they would not be vaccinated once there was a reliable one available.

That is the crux of the matter.

It is day one in Leeds with the new regulations and my neighbours all seem to think they don't apply to them!

[rab_rant]

You are going way out of my knowlege and reading on this now Rab.....

and I am not going to speculate on what goes on in America, after all their buffoon leader changes his mind as often as he changes his mistress'

As reported in Nature a reputable scientific journal, these are the phases for the proposed inoculation scheme.


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[Sara]

Fear, shaming and coercion are not the way to get anyone to comply with anything.

[Sara]

I would do anything to help anyone, I'd give you my last groat, but I'm not going to accept something purely on authority when it seems to me to be wrong or pointless.

I socially distance, I don't see large groups of people or go out in crowds, but I cannot and will not wear a mask.

I had my worst anxiety attack of the year yesterday because I had to go to the doctors, and was worried I'd have to wear one. Fortunately, they accepted that I am exempt, but by that time the damage had been done.

The self righteous and judgemental attitudes of others are a contributory factor, so please bear that in mind when you're wagging your fingers at people whose circumstances you don't understand.

I've had the virus; anecdotally, many other people I know have had it too. We're not part of the statistics. The most useful thing for us would be proper antibody tests, and reliable information about immunity so we can get back to normal. What percentage of the population this applies to, nobody knows.

[Smudge3920]

Rab Rant wrote...
Hector, my dear, I am only going by what you yourself have said, and extrapolated it to the general population of mask users. Smudge, 64, and yourself are lockdown enthusiasts yet I believe that all of you would be dubious about getting vaccinated. Am i wrong?

Rab, my dear! you are so far removed from the truth of it, it is sad. I am not an "enthusiast of lockdowns", as I am sure neither are the other's you accuse of this.
My argument is that the lockdowns following the first one following the initial outbreak, are because of people like yourself who refuse to follow simple guidelines. By following these guidelines it would allow the phased opening's and return to work which has been the objective. Your (and other's like you) actions, have caused this reversal.
You then come on here and try to baffle people with stats from all over the world and use a vocabulary right out of the Oxford English dictionary... Anyone who can read and has a search engine can find the minutest stats to support their case. The problem lie's when they only focus on the stats that support their own position.
I personally read both side's, I then form an opinion and use that in discussion. But more than that I watch, I listen and absorb what is going on around the world, as things you see and hear yourself cannot be manipulated by anyone... And if we follow what you advocate Rab, then the end game of this virus will be worse than the Spanish flu pandemic.
You live in Finland, I live in Canada...we are both very fortunate to have not been effected by this virus as other's... Hector, has lost loved one's close to him, '64 has lost some he know's, ... me I have not lost anyone yet to this virus, however I have a grandchild who through no fault of her own has an highly compromised immune system, having had her thyroid removed due to throat cancer, she is 22 years old. I have other family member's who are also compromised, but I will not bore you with those details and stat's.
If you see me as a lockdown enthusiast, so be it, I really do not care, after 25 years of military life and seeing combat the world over doe's that make me a "war enthusiast"? or someone who did their job?.. You can make arguments on both side's right?
Be careful what you accuse people of Rab, I will discuss any topic with you at any length... when you start accusing, it means you are losing your argument.
Stay safe.