Covid

[1964white]

He didn't simply refuse the vaccine. He refused the vaccine and went into a pub.

I have some sympathy, maybe he had his own reasons for not taking the vaccine, but he compounded the risks caused by that decision by going into a public area

Didn't he go to a England game as well?

I'd definitely have more sympathy for someone who contracted the virus despite taking every precaution over someone who, through negligence or recklessness, contributed to their own demise.

As I do

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Large leggings should be banned as it makes my eyes bad

[Leeds1000]

Lets be honest there's so much conflicting information out in the wilderness its becoming a real mess and we haven't even hit flu-season yet and some people are predicting that it will be a bad one .

Different country but a cause for concern all the same.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... seychelles

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... a-20812363

Is the vaccine really going to stop transmission?

Its already becoming divisive but blaming each other for killing people will lead to civil unrest if we are not careful. And we don't want to play old against young politics. As far as i am aware natural immunity is the best way to get protected from Covid.

People under 50 are at very little risk and they are the ones who are going to have restrictions placed on their freedoms for the foreseeable future...No holidays, no concerts, no bars, no football, no dentist, no doctor, no jobs. We know going forward its going to ruin many sporting events that athletes have trained hard for and will never get that time back. Unless footballers are going to live like Monks the potential of covid ripping thru squads is huge.

I am no financial guru but if we ever see the light of day again the financial burden faced by the future generations will be very painful if 2010 was anything to go by. That will place even more power in the hands of State & Corporations.

Am i right in saying if you get the virus and you build immunity then a person will be protected for upto 2 years? Does the virus still incubate in a immune person? And if it does will it be a weaker variant?

How long do the vaccines protect a elderly person for? and how many boosters do we estimate are going to be required to keep them safe?

Knowing the death rate is very low for people under 50 i wonder if the initial idea of protecting the elderly and vulnerable, concentrating the vaccines on that cohort and then letting herd immunity build in the rest of the population would have had better idea? There is some studies saying the vaccines are potentially creating more variants through suppression. I am no doctor but would natural immunity remove this problem?

Most of the young people at work can't wait to have the vaccines because they want to go on holiday. We know most of the resistance is from the ethic communities so anyone who wants the jabs to become mandated will need to reassure that cohort somehow.

[Mountain]

Is the vaccine really going to stop transmission?

I don't know.

When I went for a hernia op, I don't know if the doctor was trying to cure me.

When my wife's mum went for cancer treatment, I didn't question it.

When my eldest daughter was born 6 weeks premature and spent days in neonatal, I didn't challenge her treatment.

Because I understand that I have no expertise in these areas, and I have to take the advice of my GP, the Consultants etc. And if I don't and the consequences are catastrophic, well I have taken that risk.

[1964white]

Large leggings should be banned as it makes my eyes bad

[whiteroseboy]

Herd immunity hasn't worked in my view

The Swedish model of herd immunity.

Sweden has had just under 1500 deaths per 1 million and I'm sure some will quote ours is just under 1900.
However when you factor in the UKs population density which I believe allows viruses to spread easier(we are highest of all European countries with large populations). Only Monaco, Vatican City, Malta & San Marino are higher than England. Netherlands & Belgium are higher if you say UK (and the small European section of turkey).
So unless you think population density doesn't effect spread the Swedish herd immunity theory is flawed.

To be more accurate compare Swedens Herd immunity results with their close neighbours that followed lockdown rules.

Denmark less than 500 deaths per 1 million.
Finland less than 200 deaths per 1 million.
Norway less than 150 deaths per 1 million.

Swedens almost 1,500 deaths don't look a great success.

Oh and Brazil also went the herd immunity route and have well passed half a million deaths (over 2,500 per million).

[Leeds1000]

I don't know.

When I went for a hernia op, I don't know if the doctor was trying to cure me.

When my wife's mum went for cancer treatment, I didn't question it.

When my eldest daughter was born 6 weeks premature and spent days in neonatal, I didn't challenge her treatment.

Because I understand that I have no expertise in these areas, and I have to take the advice of my GP, the Consultants etc. And if I don't and the consequences are catastrophic, well I have taken that risk.

You don't know. Thankyou for being honest! Something produced in record time, that as far as i can see has had very little impact of the confidence of anyone over 50 to live life normally again makes you wonder why doesn't it? And lets not forget the associated symptoms with the vaccines are in some cases greater than the risk of Covid. You take your chances i guess.

[Leeds1000]

Herd immunity hasn't worked in my view

The Swedish model of herd immunity.

Sweden has had just under 1500 deaths per 1 million and I'm sure some will quote ours is just under 1900.
However when you factor in the UKs population density which I believe allows viruses to spread easier(we are highest of all European countries with large populations). Only Monaco, Vatican City, Malta & San Marino are higher than England. Netherlands & Belgium are higher if you say UK (and the small European section of turkey).
So unless you think population density doesn't effect spread the Swedish herd immunity theory is flawed.

To be more accurate compare Swedens Herd immunity results with their close neighbours that followed lockdown rules.

Denmark less than 500 deaths per 1 million.
Finland less than 200 deaths per 1 million.
Norway less than 150 deaths per 1 million.

Swedens almost 1,500 deaths don't look a great success.

Oh and Brazil also went the herd immunity route and have well passed half a million deaths (over 2,500 per million).

We know a large proportion of deaths occurred in a care home setting. Sheltering the elderly and vulnerable from the start until the vaccines were available may have resulted in more immunity and less disruption and death? I haven't followed the Sweden for a while tbh but i heard someone say they don't wear masks in schools and if a child gets ill they just send the one child home not the entire class. Its looks like the pingdemic is the government passing the buck on lockdown.

[Mountain]

You don't know. Thankyou for being honest! Something produced in record time...

Do you really know about the production time of vaccines.

Really?

What are your credentials in the area, maybe list the vaccines you have been involved in producing and the timelines. If you have written any papers in the area, better still. I don't know, so I'll bow to anyone who does, because all I see are spoofers who just google and cherry pick info and, most amusingly, don't even recognise that they don't know and they lack the expertise to assess and analyse the information in the area. It's all as useful as me standing with quantum physicists around the Hadron Collider and saying "you're doing it all wrong lads".

[rab_rant]

I find it rather duplicitous that you post this photo as a warning that this can happen to people who don't get a vaccine, yet you have no sympathy for his demise. It is plainly an act of confirmation bias on your part. Posting things that agree with your point of view.

Regardless of the tragedy in his life and in the lives of his family this piece of writing could be construed as propaganda for vaccination, with references to him being a gentle giant, being full of regret and remorse. It tugs at our heartstrings and plays on our sympathies and acts as a warning. We are supposed to feel contrite and mend our foolish ways. We had better comply or this tragedy might happen to us. Fear mongering none less

Basically it is saying don't be foolish like this man get yourself vaccinated. Call me cynical but to make everyone feel compassion for this man's tragedy, and the heartache his family must feel, and at the same time be so dismissive of his death, reeks of twisted manipulation.

Let's now turn our attention to vaccine adverse event reporting system (vaers from the CDC)... something that deals in hardcore facts, let's talk blood clots,
myocarditis and pericarditis, let's talk cytokine storms, things that people who have taken the vaccine may have to deal with, now and in the future. We hardly ever hear that side of the story, and it is dismissed as fear mongering.

I wonder how all the vaccinated people would feel if there was continual reporting of vaccine adverse events, would it make them reconsider their choice, would there be videos saying I wish I had never taken the vaccine?

I have seen such traumatic videos but I would never think to post them on here, because of the sensitivities of those who have been vaccinated.


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[Leeds1000]

Do you really know about the production time of vaccines.

Really?

What are your credentials in the area, maybe list the vaccines you have been involved in producing and the timelines. If you have written any papers in the area, better still. I don't know, so I'll bow to anyone who does, because all I see are spoofers who just google and cherry pick info and, most amusingly, don't even recognise that they don't know and they lack the expertise to assess and analyse the information in the area. It's all as useful as me standing with quantum physicists around the Hadron Collider and saying "you're doing it all wrong lads".

It was produced in record time its a well known fact isn't it?

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-d ... gMQAvD_BwE

There is lots of stories about vaccine side effects and deaths occurring. I said it is a mindfield out there but are we supposed to just ignore the information that does eventually get released? Remember the 23 in Norway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rfq53yj7Ho

It will be a few years yet before we can evaluate what's truly been going on and when people feel free to speak up/out.

[rab_rant]

I have noticed that the title of this thread has been changed from passports, to the death of a man who didn't accept vaccination. Can we say that a certain narrative is being pushed here?

Just to be balanced, today I did the search for someone who has died because of the covid vaccination.

The report comes from Reuters and is cold and scientific and not emotive... and not a mention of a gentle giant anywhere... but let's dismiss it because it comes from the Ukraine, and therefore can't be reliable.

Ukraine investigates cause of man's death after COVID shot
Reuters

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[Mick Jones shoulder]

I couldn't careless either way if I'm honest, but would you like to produce figures on deaths caused by the vaccines please..
While we are at it deaths caused by heart disease, obesity and cancer would be nice too.
By the way I'm vaccinated because I'd like to travel simple.

[1964white]

I find it rather duplicitous that you post this video as a warning that this can happen to people who don't get a vaccine, yet you have no sympathy for his demise. It is plainly an act of confirmation bias on your part. Posting things that agree with your point of view.

Regardless of the tragedy in his life and in the lives of his family this piece of writing could be construed as propaganda for vaccination, with references to him being a gentle giant, being full of regret and remorse. It tugs at our heartstrings and plays on our sympathies and acts as a warning. We are supposed to feel contrite and mend our foolish ways. We had better comply or this tragedy might happen to us. Fear mongering none less

Basically it is saying don't be foolish like this man get yourself vaccinated. Call me cynical but to make everyone feel compassion for this man's tragedy, and the heartache his family must feel, and at the same time be so dismissive of his death, reeks of twisted manipulation.

Let's now turn our attention to vaccine adverse event reporting system (vaers from the CDC)... something that deals in hardcore facts, let's talk blood clots,
myocarditis and pericarditis, let's talk cytokine storms, things that people who have taken the vaccine may have to deal with, now and in the future. We hardly ever hear that side of the story, and it is dismissed as fear mongering.

I wonder how all the vaccinated people would feel if there was continual reporting of vaccine adverse events, would it make them reconsider their choice, would there be videos saying I wish I had never taken the vaccine?

I have seen such traumatic videos but I would never think to post them on here, because of the sensitivities of those who have been vaccinated.


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Firstly it wasn't a video it was a photo of the poor man who lost his life to covid which was featured on our local news.

The comments made came from his family, in particular his cousin.

Also on the national news this week there were two young men who fortunately were recovering after being on ventilators in hospital both insisting people should have their vaccine, one young man said he regrettably got lazy & decided not to bother with the jab.

I'm sorry but it's these type of people & those who are putting obstacles in the way that are holding up the vaccination process & prolonging this horrible pandemic.

Unfortunately our government are also guilty of so many errors with their irresponsible actions & unclear messages which has seen covid significantly increase over the last six weeks.

Btw, I'll probably be changing the title of this topic header to LOCKDOWN 4 in the next few weeks

[1964white]

I couldn't careless either way if I'm honest, but would you like to produce figures on deaths caused by the vaccines please..
While we are at it deaths caused by heart disease, obesity and cancer would be nice too.
By the way I'm vaccinated because I'd like to travel simple.

We never seem to get concrete daily/weekly figures on those illnesses or how old or young people are dying from covid MJ.

I feel really sorry for millions of people waiting for cancer/heart operations as this pandemic should have been more or less resolved by now.

[Smudge3920]

We never seem to get concrete figures on those illnesses or how old or young people are dying from covid MJ.

I feel really sorry for millions of people waiting for cancer/heart operations as this pandemic should have been more or less resolved by now.

The surgery I have been waiting for for over a year has been cancelled twice now , waiting for my 3rd appointment , maybe 3rd time lucky we will see
.........

[1964white]

The surgery I have been waiting for for over a year has been cancelled twice now , waiting for my 3rd appointment , maybe 3rd time lucky we will see
.........

Good luck Smudge.

[Norm]

One thing I think could have happened with the Swedish approach - not that I'm claiming any expertise or knowledge - is that with their open approach, most of their population may have been exposed to the virus and their future death rate may come down as the natural process plays out.

I admit I have no facts on whether my hypothesis is correct, but I'm just trying to think logically of the possibility that what I have said could be true.

[The Subhuman]

We have a pingdemic at the moment and that's reflected in empty supermarket shelves. Lorry drivers are getting told to isolate leaving thousands of man hour less available and transport companies are trying to fil the void

I think it's either or, if you want to open up the country again while risking an escalating outbreak then you have to forego the isolation.

[The Subhuman]

One thing I think could have happened with the Swedish approach - not that I'm claiming any expertise or knowledge - is that with their open approach, most of their population may have been exposed to the virus and their future death rate may come down as the natural process plays out.

I admit I have no facts on whether my hypothesis is correct, but I'm just trying to think logically of the possibility that what I have said could be true.

As you say it's way too early to come to any conclusion. This probably takes years to play out. One of my favourite historian quotes is when asked the socio economic effects of the Napoleonic War a respected historian in around 1985 said it was way too soon to tell