Burnley v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Klich and Firpo unavailable

[DDB220]

Have barely just got home after getting back from that hole. Reading through the forum the comments suggest someone died. It was a frantic game. We got sucked into playing how they wanted and the nervousness running through the team at times was palpable. Not surprised there was so missed placed passes. I like my legs attached to my body so I would have been tempted to offload the ball quickly.
A point was not a bad result. We will not steam roller every team. There will be times when we struggle. Remember Barnsley last year when we scraped a 1-0 win.

We had similar games last year. We have played three lost 1 and drawn 2. Hardly the time to suggest we are going to rely on other results or struggle. I thought Roberts did pretty well when he came on.

Not at our fluent best but hardly a suggestion we have fallen to pieces.

[DDB220]

Barnsley year before last *

[DDB220]

I think playing 3 central defenders was our biggest issue. We didn’t need three. They got in each other’s way for the most part and we then found ourselves often defending with a flat back 5. Ailing is not a wingback and he struggled. When we changed formation we looked far better. Roberts and Shacks proved that extra energy. Pity we waited until they scrambled a goal.

[DDB220]

Spelling and grammar is beer induced.

[whiteswan]

Spelling and grammar is beer induced.

Thanks for your updates from the game. Reckon you could do with another beer

[WhiteRose]

Was always going to be a tough game, bit different 3 games in as opposed to a dead rubber at the end of the season. Would of liked a win but Burnley as usual sucked all the joy from the game and stifled us. I’ll reserve the panicking till at least midway through the season.

[Mountain]

Sorry but defensively Ayling has always been really poor, his passing.is also erratic but because he scores good goals on occasion and seemss a nice guy it doesn't get mentioned .

Luke Ayling ranking against Premier League defenders in 2020/21:

215 ball recoveries (1st)
205 total duels won (1st)
76 tackles won (2nd)
13,315 progressive passing distance (yards) (2nd)
39 fouls won (2nd)
1,478 successful passes (4th)
35 successful take-ons (joint-4th)

They don't rank his "niceness" at all, but guessing from your post it's very high too...

[1964white]

Have barely just got home after getting back from that hole. Reading through the forum the comments suggest someone died. It was a frantic game. We got sucked into playing how they wanted and the nervousness running through the team at times was palpable. Not surprised there was so missed placed passes. I like my legs attached to my body so I would have been tempted to offload the ball quickly.
A point was not a bad result. We will not steam roller every team. There will be times when we struggle. Remember Barnsley last year when we scraped a 1-0 win.

We had similar games last year. We have played three lost 1 and drawn 2. Hardly the time to suggest we are going to rely on other results or struggle. I thought Roberts did pretty well when he came on.

Not at our fluent best but hardly a suggestion we have fallen to pieces.

Trust you had a good day DDB

Sadly I'm missing out on aways for the first time since the 60's, struggling to acquire tickets after regularly travelling all over the country during our League One/Championship years. Hopefully I have Newcastle & Norwich tickets fingers crossed.

[Cjay]

Luke Ayling ranking against Premier League defenders in 2020/21:

215 ball recoveries (1st)
205 total duels won (1st)
76 tackles won (2nd)
13,315 progressive passing distance (yards) (2nd)
39 fouls won (2nd)
1,478 successful passes (4th)
35 successful take-ons (joint-4th)

They don't rank his "niceness" at all, but guessing from your post it's very high too...

Anyone on here will tell you i love stats but I trust my eyes on this.

The man is caught out of position on a regular basis and has been responsible for dozens of goals going in.

Ayling also played every single game so naturally his numbers will be high.

The bottom 4 aren't defending anyway he played every game in a team where we go man for man and winning the ball back quickly is a requirement so attempting tackles and things Will naturally be high.

But go watch all the goals back last season, the amount of goals he is largely responsible for is a lot.

Liam Cooper was 9th for tackles and blocks won last season in the league but doesn't make him Varane either

[1964white]

I think playing 3 central defenders was our biggest issue. We didn’t need three. They got in each other’s way for the most part and we then found ourselves often defending with a flat back 5. Ailing is not a wingback and he struggled. When we changed formation we looked far better. Roberts and Shacks proved that extra energy. Pity we waited until they scrambled a goal.

We certainly looked better in the final quarter of the game, maybe our fitness & subs hurt Burnley in the end.

[Mountain]

Anyone on here will tell you i love stats but I trust my eyes on this.

And despite the stats, which you say you usually trust, your eyes tell you he is, not average, not poor, but "really poor".

It's a bit like saying "I love stats...as long as they confirm my opinion".

[DDB220]

Ayling is one of many players who have spent the majority of their time playing out of the top flight, however he has done bloody well under the circumstances. He isn’t top quality and by that I mean in the same league as a Trent, Walker or perhaps James, but if you analyse their performances they are also prone to making mistakes. Ayling has many qualities and like a lot of our defenders they can be exposed by the sheer demands of how we play. His stats reflect the level of that demand required to play in Bielsa’s system. We do not play percentages, every player has a responsibility in terms of where they are expected to be off the ball. When we lose possession unexpectedly then the the full backs pushing up will be exposed.
The level of fitness required to play the way we do discounts the vast majority of full backs you may feel could do a better job. Also with the man to man system employed teams are savvy in exploiting opportunities to drag players out of their traditional positions.

This is the unfortunate truth behind risk and reward. Some teams are capable of exploiting this better than others. It is necessary for us to win the ball back quickly to mitigate this issue. Therefore it is not always fair to blast a player for their poor positional sense. He busts a gut week in week out.

I would rather see us play the way we do rather than the turgid football offered up by a number of other teams.

[Cjay]

And despite the stats, which you say you usually trust, your eyes tell you he is, not average, not poor, but "really poor".

It's a bit like saying "I love stats...as long as they confirm my opinion".

Alright really poor may haVe been an emotional response.

He isn't good defensively.

Happy?

Stats have uses, first to admit that, but don't always tell the whole story.

[DDB220]

We tend to always get exploited down the flanks. But we expose far more teams to this risk than we receive. If I was to be critical of Ayling and Dallas I would be more inclined to comment on their frequent inability to beat the fist defender with their balls into the box.

Our final delivery is often under par after getting in good positions. JH and even Raph are guilty of this on a frequent basis. When you are breathing out of your arse it makes delivering quality balls that much harder.

[1964white]

Ayling is one of many players who have spent the majority of their time playing out of the top flight, however he has done bloody well under the circumstances. He isn’t top quality and by that I mean in the same league as a Trent, Walker or perhaps James, but if you analyse their performances they are also prone to making mistakes. Ayling has many qualities and like a lot of our defenders they can be exposed by the sheer demands of how we play. His stats reflect the level of that demand required to play in Bielsa’s system. We do not play percentages, every player has a responsibility in terms of where they are expected to be off the ball. When we lose possession unexpectedly then the the full backs pushing up will be exposed.
The level of fitness required to play the way we do discounts the vast majority of full backs you may feel could do a better job. Also with the man to man system employed teams are savvy in exploiting opportunities to drag players out of their traditional positions.

This is the unfortunate truth behind risk and reward. Some teams are capable of exploiting this better than others. It is necessary for us to win the ball back quickly to mitigate this issue. Therefore it is not always fair to blast a player for their poor positional sense. He busts a gut week in week out.

I would rather see us play the way we do rather than the turgid football offered up by a number of other teams.

[Mountain]

Alright really poor may haVe been an emotional response.

He isn't good defensively.

Happy?

Yes. I'm happy you accept your comment was obviously way over the top and simply wrong.

There's just so much hysteria and overstatement here, the players are crap, the manager picks favourites, the owner is clueless, the transfer policy is a mess, we're going down etc. Sometimes I read this forum and almost forget that the owner and manager have transformed a team and a club and made so many people...well, to go back to your question above, happy.

[Carrick Dave]

We were poor today.

For whatever reason, the same players lack the spark and self-belief they showed at the start of last season.

Earn your corn Marcelo, something needs to change, and quickly. IBWT.

[DDB220]

Unfortunately rapid progress leads to unrealistic future expectation. I remember Charlton under Curbishley who were an established Prem team and their fans, I worked with a few felt they should be pushing for Europe ( clearly, I am not comparing us to Charlton ) they sacked him and their decline was rapid.

Fact is we over achieved last season. Some of our football was amazing and we got results beyond our wildest dreams. This season was always going to be harder as the opposition will now do their best to try and disrupt our methodology at any cost. Our challenge is not to get embroiled in WWE as we did today. It will be a useful lesson no doubt.

[Cjay]

Yes. I'm happy you accept your comment was obviously way over the top and simply wrong.

There's just so much hysteria and overstatement here, the players are crap, the manager picks favourites, the owner is clueless, the transfer policy is a mess, we're going down etc. Sometimes I read this forum and almost forget that the owner and manager have transformed a team and a club and made so many people...well, to go back to your question above, happy.

This place is no worse than other forums, in fact its better than most, go look at Manure forum today after their poor performance or even Man City fans now they arent getting Kane or Messi or Ronaldo.

I get people may find it annoying but other fans may also find it annoying when other fans go on about how great it all is and how far we have come and anyone who doesnt agree is negative and not a real fan and yes that does get said on social media and stuff all the time, works both ways surely.

MB does have favourites, i dont think that can be argued against, he has a tiny squad and picks the same players, he always has in his career, Bielsa has favourites, doesnt have to be a criticism, could just be an observation, its still a fact, i dont get how this can be argued against.

Radz isnt perfect by any means, he has made many mistakes but he is the best we have had for a long time, so happy for that (49ers have to go though for me).

The transfer policy this summer is a failure, Bielsa has openly stated he wants more players, this isnt a successful transfer window i dont see how that can be argued against? The club have been chasing a winger and central midfielder all summer and not managed it, the midfielder especially is harder to understand, we wanted one last summer. So again that isnt a negative outlook its just taking the club at their word, they had target positions and failed (so far).

I havent at any point myself said we will go down but could we? absolutely. Do i think we will? i would say not but at the same time you can never say never.

See i do understand people getting exasperated with what they perceive as negativity, but to me in my points above i dont see it as negative i see it as realistic?

To me my points are logical and thought out ( other may see it differently) but i dont see myself as negative and actually get pissed off with that being implied (in general not by you specifically).

[Boo Radley]

The worry for me is that we carry so little threat relative to our possession. Specifically, we have no real threat through the centre, made worse by Klich’s absence today, so this means that any opposition can focus our our threat down the wings, which chokes off the space for Raphinha and Harrison.

Our other problem, on top off no 10 on the pitch, is that Bamford is expected to do everything. He chases every loose ball in the opposition half, he harrasses the goalie in possession, he defends deep for us when under pressure and yet he’s expected to be at the end of every break. It’s simply not possible to do all that.

We need to replace Pablo. More and more teams will figure us out and shut shop on us and we will just huff and puff. Brighton did it last year twice and everyone will learn from that. Whether it’s moving Raphinha to 10 and getting in Summerville on the wing, or spending money now, it has to be sorted. We are relatively toothless otherwise.