Leeds Utd V Liverpool Match Thread

[onemoreslogan]

The wage bill doesn't have that great an impact on performances. This year Bamford and Dallas signed new deals with increases and we brought in Firpo and James, so this side is receiving significantly more money than last year's. In spite of this higher wage bill, our performances have not improved for now. If this trend continues it more or less dismisses the logic that more money necessarily equals better results.

But now I'm going to contradict myself somewhat. I do agree with those who feel we seem to have a talent deficit,. And it follows that if we brought in more talented players our wage bill would go up accordingly. Maybe our results would improve. It doesn't always work out that way though. For all the money we spent on Koch and LLorente, they haven't done much for us so far this season (or even last for that matter).

I was heartbroken to see Pablo go, and maybe he could have chipped in for another year, but as painful as it can be I'd rather make that kind of roster move a year too early than a year too late- contingent on an equal or potentially better replacement moving in.

And that's the rub at number 10. In a perfect world we would have brought two 10s in by now and we have none. Bielsa is trying to stick Rodrigo in that role, but he clearly isn't suited to it. I suspect he was signed to be an option or depth for number 9 (which we certainly needed!). But Bamford's form and health have not allowed Rodders to do what he does there. This would be a good problem to have if there were solid options for the team at 10, but as there aren't, Bielsa keeps jamming that square peg into the round hole because he really has no other choice and he'd like to give Rodrigo minutes. I actually believe Rodrigo could thrive at 9 if he had a run of games there and could find a little confidence and form. I would never wish it, but the best thing that could happen for him would be if Bamford missed a month with injury. Though it may be too late now because he looks completely lost.

The talent deficit is nearly as acute in the middle. Klich is fine, but he's being asked to do too much. Dallas was a minor miracle last year and he might still find his way, but whatever personal issues he's dealing with that forced him to miss international duty seem to have affected his play right now. Maybe he bounces back, but even if he does the side could still use a proven addition there.

The same can be said at left and right back- I'd like a starter-quality player who can work either side and a youngster good enough to eventually force Ayling off the pitch. CB, if they could stay healthy, would be fine. Wing is decent.

So by my reckoning we're still two 10s (one if you believe Roberts can grow into the role), a mid, and two wingbacks away from a proper roster. Ideally the mid and at least one of the 10s should be better than anything we have in the side now.

Could they come from within? Maaaybe. But the best time to blood youngsters is when the danger of relegation is at a minimum and that isn't the case now. Bielsa has to get this group playing well enough to earn a few results and he's got his hands full.

The next tie at Newcastle is as close to a must-win game as you'll find at this point in the season. I watched a good bit of them against scum. They are not as bad as that result would have you believe and we are in big trouble at the back. Things are grim indeed.

[Norm]

OMS I agree with your general pov - we don't seem to have actually started as the team we can be - a stuttering side prone to elementary mistakes and definitely a lack of confidence, which surprises me because Marcelo has definitely transformed us into a much better side and I can only hope we recover the mojo we had last season.

[White Riot]

The performances from our team this season so far seem worse than last season.

We lack energy, cohesion, confidence and our play is full of basic errors. So as good as Scum and Liverpool can be, they're always gonna look better if you surrender three points to them.

Where's the organisation and competitive drive gone?

We looked a mess and a half in pre-season and still do, and this has been exploited by our opponents.

Despite Broocieball, Newcastle have some quality players that can just you, Almiron, ASM, Willock, Murphy, so don't expect that will be easy with a baying Geordie crowd behind them.

We do look very stale and predictable, and Meslier getting peppered is a symptom of our invisible midfield and suicidal defending, same as it was in the first half of last season.

The weaknesses of this squad have not been addressed. Llorente can bring calmness and control to our defence and adds to our ability to play out from the back. But he's injured by a slight breeze.

Koch is always injured, as is Forshaw. Cooper, Phillips and Klich are frequently unavailable. Rodders is a fish out of water. Nobody is running play from midfield and hence we have zero service for Paddy.

As we didn't address the squad failings in the summer, we're now fully dependent on MB and the gang to put it right.

Will he be prepared to blood Cresswell, Drameh, Bate, Gelhardt, Summerville, Greenwood and co? Or is he gonna leave that untill we have no existing first team players available?

It's got the feeling of a ship without a rudder and I tend to agree with others that, despite Bielsas miracle work, the Sow's ear is still a Sow's ear, and he will leave at the end of the season, leaving another coach to perform the major squad surgery that will be necessary.

We need to get some points rapido, or our support could quite easily turn on MB and the players if these abject performances continue.

[Overman]

The performances from our team this season so far seem worse than last season.

We lack energy, cohesion, confidence and our play is full of basic errors. So as good as Scum and Liverpool can be, they're always gonna look better if you surrender three points to them.

Where's the organisation and competitive drive gone?

We looked a mess and a half in pre-season and still do, and this has been exploited by our opponents.

Despite Broocieball, Newcastle have some quality players that can just you, Almiron, ASM, Willock, Murphy, so don't expect that will be easy with a baying Geordie crowd behind them.

We do look very stale and predictable, and Meslier getting peppered is a symptom of our invisible midfield and suicidal defending, same as it was in the first half of last season.

The weaknesses of this squad have not been addressed. Llorente can bring calmness and control to our defence and adds to our ability to play out from the back. But he's injured by a slight breeze.

Koch is always injured, as is Forshaw. Cooper, Phillips and Klich are frequently unavailable. Rodders is a fish out of water. Nobody is running play from midfield and hence we have zero service for Paddy.

As we didn't address the squad failings in the summer, we're now fully dependent on MB and the gang to put it right.

Will he be prepared to blood Cresswell, Drameh, Bate, Gelhardt, Summerville, Greenwood and co? Or is he gonna leave that untill we have no existing first team players available?

It's got the feeling of a ship without a rudder and I tend to agree with others that, despite Bielsas miracle work, the Sow's ear is still a Sow's ear, and he will leave at the end of the season, leaving another coach to perform the major squad surgery that will be necessary.

We need to get some points rapido, or our support could quite easily turn on MB and the players if these abject performances continue.

Indeed, some of the performances have been totally unacceptble and MB isn't infalliable to critcism. We had the opportunity to develop and ehance the squad over the summer to really kick-on from last season. To an extent, we have failed to that and our pre-season and current start has seemingly highlighted these failings. The players brought in such as Koch, Rodrigo and Llorente have not really had the desired impact either through injury, form and poor player managment. MB to an almost ocd level has stuck with all that is familiar and will rarely disgresses from this. This formula was successful in our first season but there was always a vulnerability to the side, which has become more evident. I am aware it's early days and things can turnaround quickly in football, but the warning signs are there. Our more established youth players really need an opportunity to demonstrate what they capable of and to mix things up a bit.

[1964white]

The performances from our team this season so far seem worse than last season.

We lack energy, cohesion, confidence and our play is full of basic errors. So as good as Scum and Liverpool can be, they're always gonna look better if you surrender three points to them.

Where's the organisation and competitive drive gone?

We looked a mess and a half in pre-season and still do, and this has been exploited by our opponents.

Despite Broocieball, Newcastle have some quality players that can just you, Almiron, ASM, Willock, Murphy, so don't expect that will be easy with a baying Geordie crowd behind them.

We do look very stale and predictable, and Meslier getting peppered is a symptom of our invisible midfield and suicidal defending, same as it was in the first half of last season.

The weaknesses of this squad have not been addressed. Llorente can bring calmness and control to our defence and adds to our ability to play out from the back. But he's injured by a slight breeze.

Koch is always injured, as is Forshaw. Cooper, Phillips and Klich are frequently unavailable. Rodders is a fish out of water. Nobody is running play from midfield and hence we have zero service for Paddy.

As we didn't address the squad failings in the summer, we're now fully dependent on MB and the gang to put it right.

Will he be prepared to blood Cresswell, Drameh, Bate, Gelhardt, Summerville, Greenwood and co? Or is he gonna leave that untill we have no existing first team players available?

It's got the feeling of a ship without a rudder and I tend to agree with others that, despite Bielsas miracle work, the Sow's ear is still a Sow's ear, and he will leave at the end of the season, leaving another coach to perform the major squad surgery that will be necessary.

We need to get some points rapido, or our support could quite easily turn on MB and the players if these abject performances continue.

A cracking & bang on post

I was concerned how lack-lustre we were during our friendlies, some fans said those games didn't matter & it was a time to gain match fitness & our errors would be eradicated come the new season. Well the truth is we look nowhere near as fit or fluent as in our first term back in the PL & we are still making the same mistakes that were occurring during those friendly games.

Winning football matches breeds confidence, not winning early doors brings a different mindset to the table.

Totally outclassed by two of the top four sides, struggled v mid-table/potential bottom eight teams doesn't bode well for the season.

It would appear we are already four players down in a thread bare squad for our future matches which doesn't bode well for the rest of the season.

[rab_rant]

Klopp prevaricating over what he said to the ref

[WhiteRose]

This squad would not survive.

It hasnt the depth, it hasnt the quality in individual positions.

Its biggest strength is its fitness and its robotic coaching, its had certain movements and whatnot drilled into it.

MB despite his faults is our biggest hope.

However the ceiling for this squad has been reached, MB would be naive to think he can take it further and i imagine deep down he probably knows that.

And i very much doubt he will have the desire to make the necessary changes. He clearly has a real sense of loyalty to this group (hence why Forshaw is here, Roberts is here, Cooper and co are guaranteed to start) MB clearly feels a great sense of loyalty (understandably) and i cant see him having the nerve or heart to jettison the majority of the core group which if we survive would be entirely necessary next summer.

A rebuild would be needed next summer and i doubt very much Bielsa would have the desire to do that so i expect that this is his last season.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts aswell, Whilst we have some quality players we are rough around the edges and I think another manager would struggle to get a tune out of them. Should we stay up though expect to see Phillips gone to help finance the squad rebuild under a new manager.

[danhirons]

Would have thought so?

Last season only WBA and Sheffield United had a lower wage bill.

Will ours have gone up that much? Probably not, would expect it to be higher than the 3 newly promoted clubs atleast?

Know our squad cost is about 16/17th again.

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/payroll/

Probably from the above, which lists kalvin Phillips as earning 4.5k a week

Would expect Watford, Norwich, Brentford, Burnley to be below us, and for us to be around the same as Brighton, Southampton, wolves and Palace. Plus we have a super small squad, rather than our players are being paid peanuts!

[1964white]

Klopp prevaricating over what he said to the ref

A very shifty Klopp moment indeed.

[rab_rant]

A very shifty Klopp moment indeed.

Looks like it has been taken down the video. it was so awkward and embarrassing... like a kid being caught with his hand in the cookie jar... guess the powers that be didn't want to tarnish his image, so they have made it disappear... at least for me in Finland.

[Chilli D]

The performances from our team this season so far seem worse than last season.

We lack energy, cohesion, confidence and our play is full of basic errors. So as good as Scum and Liverpool can be, they're always gonna look better if you surrender three points to them.

Where's the organisation and competitive drive gone?

We looked a mess and a half in pre-season and still do, and this has been exploited by our opponents.

Despite Broocieball, Newcastle have some quality players that can just you, Almiron, ASM, Willock, Murphy, so don't expect that will be easy with a baying Geordie crowd behind them.

We do look very stale and predictable, and Meslier getting peppered is a symptom of our invisible midfield and suicidal defending, same as it was in the first half of last season.

The weaknesses of this squad have not been addressed. Llorente can bring calmness and control to our defence and adds to our ability to play out from the back. But he's injured by a slight breeze.

Koch is always injured, as is Forshaw. Cooper, Phillips and Klich are frequently unavailable. Rodders is a fish out of water. Nobody is running play from midfield and hence we have zero service for Paddy.

As we didn't address the squad failings in the summer, we're now fully dependent on MB and the gang to put it right.

Will he be prepared to blood Cresswell, Drameh, Bate, Gelhardt, Summerville, Greenwood and co? Or is he gonna leave that untill we have no existing first team players available?

It's got the feeling of a ship without a rudder and I tend to agree with others that, despite Bielsas miracle work, the Sow's ear is still a Sow's ear, and he will leave at the end of the season, leaving another coach to perform the major squad surgery that will be necessary.

We need to get some points rapido, or our support could quite easily turn on MB and the players if these abject performances continue.

It's time to give Gelhardt a go in the no 10 role imo.
Three goals for England U20's recently so his confidence will be sky high.
Let's see what he can do.

[White Riot]

It's time to give Gelhardt a go in the no 10 role imo.
Three goals for England U20's recently so his confidence will be sky high.
Let's see what he can do.

I'm good with that Chilli, I'm not seeing that the Roberts/Rodrigo experiment has worked?

So why not give someone a go whose got a bit of fire in his belly

[White Riot]

A cracking & bang on post

I was concerned how lack-lustre we were during our friendlies, some fans said those games didn't matter & it was a time to gain match fitness & our errors would be eradicated come the new season. Well the truth is we look nowhere near as fit or fluent as in our first term back in the PL & we are still making the same mistakes that were occurring during those friendly games.

Winning football matches breeds confidence, not winning early doors brings a different mindset to the table.

Totally outclassed by two of the top four sides, struggled v mid-table/potential bottom eight teams doesn't bode well for the season.

It would appear we are already four players down in a thread bare squad for our future matches which doesn't bode well for the rest of the season.

Cheers 64

It's one thing that Bielsa comes out and holds his hand up to say it's my fault after each drab performance, but what's he doing to correct things?

Seems like nowt at the moment, other than hoping our lads come good.

This needs fixed and fixed quickly, or we're gonna be stuck in a rut of a relegation battle.

[1964white]

Cheers 64

It's one thing that Bielsa comes out and holds his hand up to say it's my fault after each drab performance, but what's he doing to correct things?

Seems like nowt at the moment, other than hoping our lads come good.

This needs fixed and fixed quickly, or we're gonna be stuck in a rut of a relegation battle.

As you say we made changes & became more efficient in our play.

I was screaming for Pascal to start, eventually he got his chance v Burnley at the end of December.

We improved when Dallas was moved into central midfield last season.

Maybe we eventually got lucky with our best defender Llorente returning & staying fit for our final twelve games.

[BGwhite]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts aswell, Whilst we have some quality players we are rough around the edges and I think another manager would struggle to get a tune out of them. Should we stay up though expect to see Phillips gone to help finance the squad rebuild under a new manager.

I don't think Raphina will hang around either and maybe Meslier.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

[whiteswan]

Looks like it has been taken down the video. it was so awkward and embarrassing... like a kid being caught with his hand in the cookie jar... guess the powers that be didn't want to tarnish his image, so they have made it disappear... at least for me in Finland.

I posted up after that interview yesterday Rab, that Clipperty Klop looked very surprised when asked that question and babbled away looking sheepish....very sheepish

[Bongo1874]

Saint-Maximin running at a central defensive partnership of Ayling and Cooper is enough to keep a LUFC fan up at night

Hopefully Wilson is still injured and Joelinton is his strike partner.

Has there ever been a worse transfer in Newcastle FC history?

We have good attacking players like Miggy Almiron , Saint - maximin, Fraser, Wilson.

But being managed by that cabbage he neglects there strengths.

Newcastle 1-3 Leeds.

[Bongo1874]

The guys you are mentioning Like Raphinha, Meslier, Phillips are all on long contracts, the only way they are leaving is if you are relegated which won't happen, or an outrageous offer is made for them.

[Cjay]

We have good attacking players like Miggy Almiron , Saint - maximin, Fraser, Wilson.

But being managed by that cabbage he neglects there strengths.

Newcastle 1-3 Leeds.

You do, unfortunately Bruce cant use them effectively.

Have a soft spot for you guys, lived in Newcastle for a while around the Pardew, Carver, McClaren time, used to walk past St James Park and chat to Newcastle fans, passionate bunch, very friendly.

[Bongo1874]

You do, unfortunately Bruce cant use them effectively.

Have a soft spot for you guys, lived in Newcastle for a while around the Pardew, Carver, McClaren time, used to walk past St James Park and chat to Newcastle fans, passionate bunch, very friendly.

Won't have to worry about Wilson anyway, I can see this being the game that finishes Bruce tbh.