The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thursday 30th September) - Is it make or break time for Tyler Roberts

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Thursday 30th September, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Make or break for Roberts

Tyler Roberts future at Elland Road hangs in the balance, due to the rapid acceleration of young starlet Joe Gelhardt, according to Leeds Live. Elland Road's favourite scapegoat has made 84 appearances for the Whites since his £2.5m arrival from West Brom three years ago, though the majority have been bit parts. Whilst fans of the Welsh International are keen to point out, Roberts is only 22, his impact of the team's performance is negligible at times. He signed a new three-year contract in the Summer after impressing during the latter stages of last season; but has not been able to replicate this, this term.

Joe Gelhardt on the other hand continues to impress following his £1.2m move from Wigan Athletic last summer. 11 goals and 3 assists in 16 saw him as one of Leeds United U23s stand out performers in Premier League 2 last season and he has started this season in the same vein of form with 6 goals in 6 appearances. His first team debut came as a second half substitute for Mateusz Klich in the EFL Cup third round match against Fulham last week. The Leeds eon the match on penalties with Gelhardt cooly striking the seventh of Leeds eight penalties into the Fulham net.

Should Roberts go out on loan, where he will get first team action week in, week out, get rid in the January transfer window or keep him? Could Gelhardt move himeself above Roberts in the pecking order over the coming weeks?





Meslier to the rescue

Illan Meslier has been a revelation since his arrival from French outfit Lorient two seasons ago, and at 5m, is proving to be one of the best buys in recent times. Still only 21, and standing 6 foot 6', the last line of defence has been instrumental between the sticks this season. Leeds have conceded 112 shots in the Premier League this season - more than any other team so far. He has made 27 saves, more than any other top flight keeper, and the moves saves from inside the box (18). Whilst the French U21 should be congratulated for his performances, it certainly highlights the deficiencies we have on the pitch.





Highly unlikely Leeds will strengthen squad in January

It is 'highly unlikely' that Leeds will strengthen their squad in the January transfer window. Those were the words of Leeds Utd journalist Beren Cross.

The problem with January business is you’re always fighting an uphill battle to make it work under Bielsa. Assuming you sign the player in mid to late January. They need six weeks with the under-23s before they’re ready physically and tactically for Bielsa. You’re looking at the final six weeks of a season for the player to have an impact. If there was some form of injury crisis, then I am sure the club would act, but it seems highly unlikely if the squad is largely available to Bielsa through the second half of the season.

[Ratscoot]

Morning EB et all

100% Loan Tyler out

Spiderboy is brilliant and if we can keep him he will become a Leeds Legend

I think we will buy someone in January so can I now be classed a pundit?

[Scoobychief]

Roberts has had far too many make or break unfortunately for me its break, he's useless totally useless. and to think this is the first choice off the bench its a disgrace.

[Eireleeds1]

Roberts is as good as he's going to be. Well have to loan him out as nobody will pay money for him, especially with his ridiculous new contract. Than God we discovered Meslier. He's class. Imagine what we would have conceded last season and this with Kiko flapping about between the sticks. We won't strengthen in January for the reasons that have been given by Beren Cross and so many others. Im sure it won't stop us being linked with every midfielder in Europe anyway

[Mountain]

It's clear from Leeds forums, social media etc., that Roberts is despised by a section of Leeds fans and is singled out for some very spiteful comments again and again and again. He's a sub, a sub, he's not a first team player, he is, by all accounts, paid less than an average PL sub. We can't expect subs to be great, they are almost by definition not as good as first team players, that's kinda why they are subs. Even when Leeds were playing the CL semi final with a very expensive team featuring record breaking transfers...the subs bench had Jacob Burns and Alan Maybury. I think the person best placed to judge the merits of where he and Gelhardt sit on the subs bench is Bielsa.

[Byebyegeegee]

Whether he’s a sub or not if he’s not good enough, he’s not good enough. He has had ample opportunities by now to prove himself but has, in my and a lot of other fans opinion, failed to do so. He is a neat and tidy player but almost never makes anything happen. Somehow, when ever he gets the ball in a dangerous area it inevitably ends in an anticlimax.

If we had no one else to fall back on then we would have no option but keep persisting with him, but that is not the case. We now have Gelhardt and possibly Greenwood champing at the bit to replace him in the striking roll and the likes of Bate to replace him in his number 10 roll.

I would loan him out initially with a view to selling if he can prove himself at a lower level.

Meslier is brilliant and unfortunately is one, along with Raphinha, that might be tempted with a move away unless our form and results pick up. I think Phillips will stay unless the club themselves decide to cash in at some point.

[The Subhuman]

It's clear from Leeds forums, social media etc., that Roberts is despised by a section of Leeds fans and is singled out for some very spiteful comments again and again and again. He's a sub, a sub, he's not a first team player, he is, by all accounts, paid less than an average PL sub. We can't expect subs to be great, they are almost by definition not as good as first team players, that's kinda why they are subs. Even when Leeds were playing the CL semi final with a very expensive team featuring record breaking transfers...the subs bench had Jacob Burns and Alan Maybury. I think the person best placed to judge the merits of where he and Gelhardt sit on the subs bench is Bielsa.

Thank f**k, tbh I was expecting the usual non informed idiocy in this thread. I almost didn't bother opening it, he is the current scape goat for no good f**king reason, I'm a fan, he is young, he was learning the hardest position to learn to play in modern football and making progress

Good post thanks

[White Riot]

Roberts, not for me folks. 85 appearances and what has ha actually contributed? Send him out on loan, if he's as good as MB and others think, surely he'll shine at Championship level? But he didn't, and he won't, cos he ain't even up to that standard.

The issue I have with Roberts, and previously Costa, always being first choice subs is that this denies opportunities for our talented youth to stake a claim, e.g. Bate, Summerville, Gelhardt, Shackleton, Greenwood, McKinstry, etc. It also just adds to our predictability when opposition manager's can set their watch for Tyro making his customary appearance. He's started matches and still hasn't impressed and got yanked off. It's like expecting Costa's gonna come good, he isn't

We've seen what others can do when MB has been forced into giving them a chance: Meslier, Struijk, Cresswell, Shackleton, Summerville, etc. Shackleton has looked composed and creative when he's been given the chance, so why should he have to wait while this Tyro car crash keeps being replayed every week?

Meslier is an absolute diamond. He's getting peppered every week due to our vacuum of a midfield and shaky defence, but just seems to grow with every appearance. He really has kept the score down against us every match this season. But he got the opportunity because Kiko did his Combat 18 routine against Charlton, otherwise MB may well have stayed loyal to Kiko.

I doubt we'll do out in the January window, and with our small squad MB may well keep hold of Tyro, rather than sending him out on loan.

[Irish Ian]

Morning Folks.

With Joffy now knocking on the door for a start it could hopefully inspire Roberts to push himself. One of my concerns about such a big strong lad is that Roberts is do easily pushed off the ball.
I can't see him being loaned even if Joffy were to take his place.

Unlikely we will bring in anyone in Jan unless we offload anyone or the injury crisis deepens.

Meslier is certainly bei g kept busy. Not brilliant yet, while he has pulled off some brilliant saves he has imo conceded some he should have saved. But he will improve and could be Frances No1 at some point in his career. A great asset.

[Ellandback1]

Morning EB et all

100% Loan Tyler out

Spiderboy is brilliant and if we can keep him he will become a Leeds Legend

I think we will buy someone in January so can I now be classed a pundit?

Honorary pundit pal!

[Ellandback1]

Roberts has had far too many make or break unfortunately for me its break, he's useless totally useless. and to think this is the first choice off the bench its a disgrace.

So we should break him?



Seems a bit harsh....

[The Subhuman]

Roberts has done well for us since coming into the team, I've lost count of the number of quality passes he's played into the box only for the recipient to f**k up, he's contributed to several goals without actually getting an assist which, lets be honest, are probably the worst stat there is. Not been quite so good last couple of games as he's shifted position yet again coming on for Raph, and even than one lovely pass into the box which went unrewarded. He's good at closing down and tracking back, he's a decent tackler and header of the ball which is something Bielsa would have seen. Deserves his place on the bench, every bit as good a footballer as Bamford and Dallas

I've never said he should start but should be one of the first names for a bench spot..

[Cjay]

Have to say i do feel a bit sorry for Roberts recently, MB bringing him on to replace a fan favourite (Raph) does him no favours and playing him on the wing doesnt help either.

I know MB thinks that all players should be flexible in his system and able to cover multiple roles but Roberts is no winger and never will be and its setting him up to fail.

In fairness to him its unfair to say he is useless, he does imo suit the midfield role off the ball ever so slightly more than Rodrigo (not much more and neither are very good at it) but i imagine he presses ever so slightly more often than Rodders.

His tracking back is similarly useless however and he has an undeserved air of arrogance about him.

And like quite a few of his teammates his end product has never been very consistent or good enough and actually in the end product stakes he is likely one of the poorest.

Ultimately players are judged on results, some fans dont like stats but attacking players especially live and die by them.

How many goals you got and how many assists and Roberts doesnt get enough of either and never has here.

Understand Faaip's point about contributing to goals without getting an assist but thats a difficult stat to backup, how far back do you go? Assist for the assist for the assist? You could go back 5 passes to justify that

At the end of the day he has been here 3-4 years and never once threatened to become a deserved first 11 member (unless others are injured as Bielsa himself said last season).

Problem with that is squads should evolve and first 11 members become squad players and bench players and previous bench players get sold.

Roberts has been here a long time now and cant force his way into the first 11 on merit.

If as a team we hope to evolve then ruthless calls have to be made and i strongly suspect Roberts will go.

[mentalcase]

Roberts, not for me folks. 85 appearances and what has ha actually contributed? Send him out on loan, if he's as good as MB and others think, surely he'll shine at Championship level? But he didn't, and he won't, cos he ain't even up to that standard.

The issue I have with Roberts, and previously Costa, always being first choice subs is that this denies opportunities for our talented youth to stake a claim, e.g. Bate, Summerville, Gelhardt, Shackleton, Greenwood, McKinstry, etc. It also just adds to our predictability when opposition manager's can set their watch for Tyro making his customary appearance. He's started matches and still hasn't impressed and got yanked off. It's like expecting Costa's gonna come good, he isn't

We've seen what others can do when MB has been forced into giving them a chance: Meslier, Struijk, Cresswell, Shackleton, Summerville, etc. Shackleton has looked composed and creative when he's been given the chance, so why should he have to wait while this Tyro car crash keeps being replayed every week?

Meslier is an absolute diamond. He's getting peppered every week due to our vacuum of a midfield and shaky defence, but just seems to grow with every appearance. He really has kept the score down against us every match this season. But he got the opportunity because Kiko did his Combat 18 routine against Charlton, otherwise MB may well have stayed loyal to Kiko.

I doubt we'll do out in the January window, and with our small squad MB may well keep hold of Tyro, rather than sending him out on loan.

Read all the replies on here before posting, the above isn't far from what I would post, other to say, Boberts is shite, will never make it, just like costa, we'll be better off flogging him and cutting his wage bill, too many brave exciting youngsters coming through and we could lose them if we keep giving preference/blind loyalty to Boberts.
He's not on his own here either, a few more really need to knuckle down and push on: Rodrigo, Harrison & James,, although the latter has only joined the jury is still out, no room for sentiment I'm afraid, not as if any of the above have been "legends"
Will we strengthen in January !! no one knows this apart from the heirachy who are probably concerned and aiming to bring someone in, hopefully a midfielder, but it may be hard to break into Bielsa's train of thought, which in itself is worrying.
Lets see what the next 3 games bring.......probably Boberts on for Rodrigo

[lufc1304]

I think Roberts is a good player, but he lacks whatever it is that elevates good players to very good. His technique is sound and he can pick a pass but there's just something not there. I don't know if it's laziness, a lack of confidence or being asked to fill in in a number of positions. Or maybe he's simply not a Bielsa player, one who can play a couple of roles. Perhaps he is the type of player that needs to play one position and one position only. I don't know, but I do think a loan spell, one where he was guaranteed to start every week, might do him some good. We could recall him, if necessary, and perhaps a run of games (and goals) might give him the kick up the arse he seems to need to fight for a first team spot. He's either happy as a sub or he's not showing enough day in, day out in training to trouble Bielsa or the current incumbents. He never starts, unless injuries dictate he does, which suggests he's not giving the manager something to think about. He's young, he can improve but he's one of the few under Bielsa who doesn't seem to have. A conundrum

[Ratscoot]

Honorary pundit pal!

Just a thought I'll have to spout bollocks and talk crap ..... phew that's ok I can do that

[The Subhuman]

I think Roberts is a good player, but he lacks whatever it is that elevates good players to very good. His technique is sound and he can pick a pass but there's just something not there. I don't know if it's laziness, a lack of confidence or being asked to fill in in a number of positions. Or maybe he's simply not a Bielsa player, one who can play a couple of roles. Perhaps he is the type of player that needs to play one position and one position only. I don't know, but I do think a loan spell, one where he was guaranteed to start every week, might do him some good. We could recall him, if necessary, and perhaps a run of games (and goals) might give him the kick up the arse he seems to need to fight for a first team spot. He's either happy as a sub or he's not showing enough day in, day out in training to trouble Bielsa or the current incumbents. He never starts, unless injuries dictate he does, which suggests he's not giving the manager something to think about. He's young, he can improve but he's one of the few under Bielsa who doesn't seem to have. A conundrum

This is a Bamford argument, when Paddy first arrived he was very inconsistent, played poorly for the most part apart from the odd flash of ability but Bielsa stuck with him and got some rewards, what Bamford got Tyler hasn't had is a lot of consecutive starts at the position MB wanted him, Roberts gets the odd start, plays up front, on the wing and as the 10 where he has flashed.

For me Roberts is the better footballer, I don't think he's lazy as he chases back and tackles well, he has thread the needle multiple times and with better finishing would have a decent amount of assists. My guess is the confidence is lacking but the class is there for me... Neither Paddy nor Tyler should be starting atm, but Tyler at 22 is 3 years from peak and Paddy in three years will be no better than he currently is.

We're not paying much for Tyler, he's clearly loyal, deserves better from the fans imo..

[rab_rant]

Oi Oi Jimmy "the bung" Merchant 'ere. S'truth is if a fella has to make a bit of coin you needs to be a likkle bit woo an little bit waaay. It's the bungs and the kickbacks wot make it interesting innit.

Take me mate Costa for example, I gets meself 50 odd usernames and spam twitter an Facebook, saying he is crap. Build up public opinion like, make out that everybody is constipated wif fury, an Bob's your uncle on Fannies your aunt next fing you know management want to get shot.

And that is where I step in like, to facilitate the deal. Talked to The Telegraph and said there are eight current and former Premier League managers wot I do business wif, cos they likes a slice of the cake, you know what I mean doncha, from agents in exchange for the moola we gets from arranging player transfers.

Current campaign is to get shot of Tyler Roberts,Welsh international but hasn't scored a decent goal since the brace at Hull. Showed promise then, good with his head, nippy with his feet, good close control but he needs to get his head up. Good back up boy from the bench, pineapple haircut a bonus.

Got to use a bit of finesse. Bit of a conjuring trick, the old double speak, ruffle the managements feathers so they want to get rid, and soft soap the lone management so that they want to take, it's like walking a bloody tightrope, need your balance.

And the rewards well if I told you that I would need to slit my throat.

[hector]

Just a thought I'll have to spout bollocks and talk crap ..... so no change there then

FTFY mate

[Leeds1000]

Whether he’s a sub or not if he’s not good enough, he’s not good enough. He has had ample opportunities by now to prove himself but has, in my and a lot of other fans opinion, failed to do so. He is a neat and tidy player but almost never makes anything happen. Somehow, when ever he gets the ball in a dangerous area it inevitably ends in an anticlimax.

If we had no one else to fall back on then we would have no option but keep persisting with him, but that is not the case. We now have Gelhardt and possibly Greenwood champing at the bit to replace him in the striking roll and the likes of Bate to replace him in his number 10 roll.

I would loan him out initially with a view to selling if he can prove himself at a lower level.

Meslier is brilliant and unfortunately is one, along with Raphinha, that might be tempted with a move away unless our form and results pick up. I think Phillips will stay unless the club themselves decide to cash in at some point.

Pretty much how i see it. I don't dislike the kid. Other players have developed over the last few years, players like Dallas for instance, but Roberts just seems to stand still. I think the writing is on the wall for a loan, playing him as a winger is the last square peg. He's never nailed down a regular spot, i still couldn't tell you his best position, he needs a season or two to really get that solid match sharpness and his confidence back and he will find out himself if he is any good. On a positive note for the lad his body seems to be finally holding up from all the injuries he had.

Meslier to the rescue

Now there a young lad who has taken his chance. The best young keeper in the world. PSG.... its going to cost you a lot of money.

I think we should bring Jean-Kevin Augustin back in January. I'm all for second chances.