Should Statues Be Dismantled ?

[1964white]

My dad passed away 5 years ago and right up until the last few months, he was a regular church goer. He used to give regular talks at the service about current affairs, political issues etc as well as religious ones and he basically said the same thing 64.
He stated that 100 years from now, most churches will have been replaced by mosques and we will indeed be a predominantly muslim country.
This didn't go down well with the congregation apparently but he was just stating his opinion.

Your dad is correct, Chilli

As a nation, us Brits have become less religious over the last few decades.

Many moons ago, parents used to ensure their children went to Sunday school & church services. My brother & I did so until we were 15yo. My parents continued going to church until they passed on. Even though I believe in god, I only attend church at weddings/funerals or sometimes at Christmastime nowadays. Many of my friends are atheists, their right of course, this non-religious stance has grown over the years, unlike Muslims whose religious beliefs are as strong as the day they were born.

Many Muslims are opposed to birth control, so naturally their families are going to increase more so than a traditional British family, whether they are Methodists/Salvationists/C&E or non-believers.

[Mountain]

I'm a regular church goer. I have young kids, I think it's good for them to have 45 minutes every week where they have to be quiet and listen to what is generally a pretty wholesome message.

I'm also Irish, and there was a time a hundred years ago when we were demonised as the savages sweeping into British slums. 50 years ago, Enoch Powell raged against Commonwealth immigrants doing the same. Now it's the Muslims. Has any expert in demography confirmed this will happen?

[1964white]

I'm a regular church goer. I have young kids, I think it's good for them to have 45 minutes every week where they have to be quiet and listen to what is generally a pretty wholesome message.

I'm also Irish, and there was a time a hundred years ago when we were demonised as the savages sweeping into British slums. 50 years ago, Enoch Powell raged against Commonwealth immigrants doing the same. Now it's the Muslims. Has any expert in demography confirmed this will happen?

My opinion, Mountain,

The world is changing, just believe it's inevitable for the reasons I presented above.

I do believe the Irish are more committed to their faith than the English, Welsh & the Scots.

[Mountain]

I do believe the Irish are more committed to their faith than the English, Welsh & the Scots.

Oh no, not at all.

I see English Catholics, cousins, they are very much part of their Church, on the choir, helping out. They really cling to their religion as part of their identity. Church numbers here have completely collapsed in 30 years. In our town of about 2,000 I'd say I'm the only local who brings kids to mass, and I do it largely for the peace and quiet! There are a few Polish families with kids the same age as mine and they are very engaged alright.

In Northern Ireland things would be very different, but again it's possibly because both sides see religion as part of their identity.

[WhiteRose]

Your dad is correct, Chilli

As a nation, us Brits have become less religious over the last few decades.

Many moons ago, parents used to ensure their children went to Sunday school & church services. My brother & I did so until we were 15yo. My parents continued going to church until they passed on. Even though I believe in god, I only attend church at weddings/funerals or sometimes at Christmastime nowadays. Many of my friends are atheists, their right of course, this non-religious stance has grown over the years, unlike Muslims whose religious beliefs are as strong as the day they were born.

Many Muslims are opposed to birth control, so naturally their families are going to increase more so than a traditional British family, whether they are Methodists/Salvationists/C&E or non-believers.

Whilst I see where you are both coming from I dont think we will become a Majority Islam country. In the 2011 census Islam was 4.4% of the population, up from 2.7% 10 years earlier, which I imagine is lower than what you would expect especially if you are basing your argument on the demographics of inner-city suburbs of northern cities. Whilst I could see Islam becoming the most practiced religion there is no chance it would ever get higher than about 15%. As the trend so far has shown its those that recognise no religion that will become the dominant section of society.

[whiteroseboy]

Whilst I see where you are both coming from I dont think we will become a Majority Islam country. In the 2011 census Islam was 4.4% of the population, up from 2.7% 10 years earlier,

Using those figures that is a 62% increase in 10 years.

If that increase continues at the same rate.

2031 = 7.12% 0f the population
2041 = 11.55%
2051 = 18.07%
2061 = 30.3%
2071 = 49.09%
2081 = 79.53%
2086ish = 100%

Doubt very much it will happen like that but goes to show how it can, who knows ?

[WhiteRose]

Using those figures that is a 62% increase in 10 years.

If that increase continues at the same rate.

2031 = 7.12% 0f the population
2041 = 11.55%
2051 = 18.07%
2061 = 30.3%
2071 = 49.09%
2081 = 79.53%
2086ish = 100%

Doubt very much it will happen like that but goes to show how it can, who knows ?

ha ha yeah put it like that and its certainly possible. Brings to mind the phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

[Mountain]

ha ha yeah put it like that and its certainly possible. Brings to mind the phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

My favourite is the one from Victorian times that predicted if horse drawn traffic in London kept increasing at the same rate, they'd all be under 10 feet of horses**t by 1920!

[liggy]

We took a statue down of that robbie burns fella years b4 folk thought of it.
He was on a plinth on a disused auld path in Howdon ….we were just kids about 27ish
it took over 3nights and put him in a wheelbarrow before weighing him in at the scrapyard.

I always toast him on burns night

[mentalcase]

I don't think most of the tramps who did what they did know anything about history as a whole, they just decide en-masse and do what they feel like, knowing full well they'll most likely get away with it especially backed by the utter corrupt leftie news channels, no-one dare say anything anymore for fear of being classed a "RACIST"
Slavery !! What about the poor British and other Europeans, over 1 million of them that were systemically took away from their homes and loved ones and made slaves to the Africans !!! No, no idea !!??? Didn't think so either, as racism only cuts one way.
Lets drag down our statues and show the world how politically correct we are , lets show the worlsd that we can simply roam the streets and cause wanton damage and get away, because we live in a corrupt democracy, or is it just a democracy too scared to do anything about it ?
What would you do if someone smashed your property to bits, accept it because the jury side with the offenders ?
Worlds gone f**king mad.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Watched Blazing Saddles yesterday made me piss, wouldn't get anywhere TV nowadays

[mentalcase]

Watched Blazing Saddles yesterday made me piss, wouldn't get anywhere TV nowadays

Proper film, like so many of yesteryear, it was accepted and folk got on with it, even the sheriff
But, to make us all feel better, lets go drag the studio down that made such a racist film, and let off the wokes who demand change.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Proper film, like so many of yesteryear, it was accepted and folk got on with it, even the sheriff
But, to make us all feel better, lets go drag the studio down that made such a racist film, and let off the wokes who demand change.

Also co written by the great Richard Pryor
The sheriff entering town is Classic.

[1964white]

Watched Blazing Saddles yesterday made me piss, wouldn't get anywhere TV nowadays

There are many films/programmes wouldn't get on TV for the fear of offending our precious society.

[mentalcase]

Also co written by the great Richard Pryor
The sheriff entering town is Classic.

Off topic cause its run its course, but, talking of films, what about '4 lions' should that be banned even though its about muslims taking the piss out of themselves ??? Will they drag that studio down !!
Oh bollocks, forget racism only cuts one way.

[Chilli D]

Whilst I see where you are both coming from I dont think we will become a Majority Islam country. In the 2011 census Islam was 4.4% of the population, up from 2.7% 10 years earlier, which I imagine is lower than what you would expect especially if you are basing your argument on the demographics of inner-city suburbs of northern cities. Whilst I could see Islam becoming the most practiced religion there is no chance it would ever get higher than about 15%. As the trend so far has shown its those that recognise no religion that will become the dominant section of society.

Just to clarify White Rose, it was what my dad had said, rather than me.

[Clacton White]

Here's one to ponder . On YouTube yesterday I found a Swap shop 1978 rock party video .......I was curious so watched some of it .Showaddywaddy were playing on it , for those that don't know or remember , a 70's rock n roll revival band , completely inoffensive ..........but their chorus bit on the particular song involved backing singers singing " wop wop wop wop "........ now would the woke loony left try to ban that song for racial insults ......I mean .......Showaddywaddy ...........banned ? These people look to offence in anything , because they want to be offended , they want trouble .

[Mountain]

Here's one to ponder . On YouTube yesterday I found a Swap shop 1978 rock party video .......I was curious so watched some of it .Showaddywaddy were playing on it , for those that don't know or remember , a 70's rock n roll revival band , completely inoffensive ..........but their chorus bit on the particular song involved backing singers singing " wop wop wop wop "........ now would the woke loony left try to ban that song for racial insults ......I mean .......Showaddywaddy ...........banned ? These people look to offence in anything , because they want to be offended , they want trouble .

Obviously that is not being used in a racist context. Other words that can be used in a completely harmless context include "spade" "spook" and so on.

Relax, Showaddywaddy are not in trouble!

[Clacton White]

Obviously that is not being used in a racist context. Other words that can be used in a completely harmless context include "spade" "spook" and so on.

Relax, Showaddywaddy are not in trouble!

Yes , but that's the absurdity of this situation and these people ........they will find offence. Trouble also it isn't the people you would expect that take offence , it's someone else taking offence for them and stirring a situation that doesn't or shouldn't exist . It's so ridiculous that they aren't bothered about context or anything , they just pick up on one thing and blow it out of all proportion.

[Mountain]

Yes , but that's the absurdity of this situation and these people ........they will find offence.

Is the slave trade not deeply deeply offensive? I don't think anyone has to look far to find offence in a statue to a slave trader.

I don't understand how the situation is absurd. To me the absurdity was in prosecuting them at all, and wasting taxpayers money.

It's something we went through in Ireland decades ago, statues to Queen Victoria were largely removed or destroyed as she is known as "The Famine Queen" here and they were seen by some as a monument to someone who presided over a genocide. Even James Joyce referred to one statue as "The Auld Bitch". It did open up a debate about recording history and the merits of statues, but don't think anyone was ever prosecuted.