Should Statues Be Dismantled ?

[Leeds1000]

I have changed my mind on this. The courts have ok'd it so let them pull down what they want and change every street name they want. If some people are content with erasing history then in the future they will have nothing to compare. Football statues could be next lets see the outrage then.

[Clacton White]

Is the slave trade not deeply deeply offensive? I don't think anyone has to look far to find offence in a statue to a slave trader.

I don't understand how the situation is absurd. To me the absurdity was in prosecuting them at all, and wasting taxpayers money.

It's something we went through in Ireland decades ago, statues to Queen Victoria were largely removed or destroyed as she is known as "The Famine Queen" here and they were seen by some as a monument to someone who presided over a genocide. Even James Joyce referred to one statue as "The Auld Bitch". It did open up a debate about recording history and the merits of statues, but don't think anyone was ever prosecuted.

I mean the woke thing in general , where people take offence to pretty much anything . Our work place "suggested " people don't talk about holidays as someone may not be able to afford a holiday or one as nice as someone else , though regardless of location a holiday to me is what you make of it .
The slavery thing , yes it was wrong but do not middle East countries still have slavery of sorts , oppression etc as do other countries .To say it's endemic to one place is wrong and to blame any one culture is wrong .It was worldwide at one stage , it was and is wrong but we can't change history but learn from it , you certainly can't ignore it .
My gripe really is the whole woke movement at present , they may have some genuine points but often they go completely the wrong way about it and actually turn people against them rather than make people think about their viewpoint .
That's what I think anyway.

[The Subhuman]

Here's one to ponder . On YouTube yesterday I found a Swap shop 1978 rock party video .......I was curious so watched some of it .Showaddywaddy were playing on it , for those that don't know or remember , a 70's rock n roll revival band , completely inoffensive ..........but their chorus bit on the particular song involved backing singers singing " wop wop wop wop "........ now would the woke loony left try to ban that song for racial insults ......I mean .......Showaddywaddy ...........banned ? These people look to offence in anything , because they want to be offended , they want trouble .

Completely inoffensive as in that case the wop is part of doo wop... Same as it's fine to call my car black if it were black. Are you 100% sure it would aggravate the loony left? Because I don't think it would.

[Clacton White]

Completely inoffensive as in that case the wop is part of doo wop... Same as it's fine to call my car black if it were black. Are you 100% sure it would aggravate the loony left? Because I don't think it would.

To be fair , I just don't know .But that's just it , you don't know what's going to offend them as some of its totally left field () , comes out of nowhere and you just think "what's that all about " . Who knows these days ? I just know the lunatics have taken over at our place.......it's a mini BBC .

[DDB220]

Removing items on display wherever for whatever argument should be a concern for elected authorities to make with consultation. The real question at hand is whether it is right for a section of the public to take it upon themselves to make that decision an act upon it.

The 4 or 5 on trial should have been found guilty of criminal damage. Suggesting that the statue they damaged was offensive to them is not a defence. However it would be mitigation for sentencing.

Now there is a judicial precedent of sorts which will embolden the cancel culture to remove whatever they see fit without engaging in debate.

Personally, all such memorials are part of a flawed romanticism of history that does not stand up to modern day scrutiny in terms of justification. Museums are probably the best place for most. But that is a decision to be made democratically not by cancel culture lynch mobs.

[Mountain]

The 4 or 5 on trial should have been found guilty of criminal damage. Suggesting that the statue they damaged was offensive to them is not a defence.

Lawful excuse is a valid defence. After 2 weeks of submissions, which were far more comprehensive than simply saying "it offends us", the jury decided 11-1 there was a lawful excuse.

[Aussieleeds]

Is the slave trade not deeply deeply offensive? I don't think anyone has to look far to find offence in a statue to a slave trader.

I don't understand how the situation is absurd. To me the absurdity was in prosecuting them at all, and wasting taxpayers money.

It's something we went through in Ireland decades ago, statues to Queen Victoria were largely removed or destroyed as she is known as "The Famine Queen" here and they were seen by some as a monument to someone who presided over a genocide. Even James Joyce referred to one statue as "The Auld Bitch". It did open up a debate about recording history and the merits of statues, but don't think anyone was ever prosecuted.

The pyramids were built by slaves as temples for the worlds greatest slave owners- the pharaohs.
Quick, tear down the pyramids.

[Mountain]

The pyramids were built by slaves as temples for the worlds greatest slave owners- the pharaohs.
Quick, tear down the pyramids.

I don't think the trial was about pyramids, or that anyone referred to them at all. I don't know if Egyptian law protects them tbh.

People seem annoyed that a British jury has flung out a case on an 11-1 majority. Should they change the legal system to protect effigies of dead slave owners?

[Aussieleeds]

I don't think the trial was about pyramids, or that anyone referred to them at all. I don't know if Egyptian law protects them tbh.

People seem annoyed that a British jury has flung out a case on an 11-1 majority. Should they change the legal system to protect effigies of dead slave owners?

It does seem a dangerous precedent has been set. A group can damage property and as long as they can prove something about that property offended them, then they’ll get off scot-free.
Just hope nothing you own or support offends anyone,eh?

“Oh, I had to burn that cathedral to the ground because my ancestors were killed during the Crusades.”

[Broad Ford]

I don't think the trial was about pyramids, or that anyone referred to them at all. I don't know if Egyptian law protects them tbh.

People seem annoyed that a British jury has flung out a case on an 11-1 majority. Should they change the legal system to protect effigies of dead slave owners?

People are annoyed that a lynch mob got away with an act of violence on a statue in broad daylight. Imagine if anybody had got in the way of this emotional tide of destruction they could have been severely injured. There is no justification for mob violence of this kind in Britain and those responsible should be punished with maximum sentences handed out to deter others from repeating such destructive behaviour in future.

Why not celebrate the fact that against all the odds it was white europeans of British stock that, after failing many times, finally defeated the powerful and wealthy slave traders and outlawed slavery across two thirds of the world.

Weren't our British ancestors wonderful people campaigning to keep not only British people free, but also millions of others right across the trading empire.

[Mountain]

Why not celebrate the fact that against all the odds it was white europeans of British stock that, after failing many times, finally defeated the powerful and wealthy slave traders and outlawed slavery across two thirds of the world.

Weren't our British ancestors wonderful people campaigning to keep not only British people free, but also millions of others right across the trading empire.

I think the work of William Wilberforce and the abolitionists was wonderful and is very much celebrated.

Edward Colston was a leading figure in the Royal African Company which shipped more Africans across the Atlantic than any other, enslaving, branding and kidnapping over 200,000 people. I would disagree with words like "wonderful" and "celebrate" in any consideration of his legacy.

[Clacton White]

It does seem a dangerous precedent has been set. A group can damage property and as long as they can prove something about that property offended them, then they’ll get off scot-free.
Just hope nothing you own or support offends anyone,eh?

“Oh, I had to burn that cathedral to the ground because my ancestors were killed during the Crusades.”

By twisted logic maybe I could tear down Stamford bridge because it offends me .
Re the pyramids in Egypt, guessing you might find yourself on the wrong side of a hail of bullets if you tried anything there . I think it's only relatively modern times slavery has been frowned upon and even now still happens in some countries . Serfdom in medieval and middle ages also amounted to pretty much the same .No excuses , but humanity has always been shitty to humanity.......and anything else living .