The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 2nd February) Bielsa snubbed Harry Winks, Aaron Ramsey and van de Beek

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Wednesday 2nd February, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road


Bielsa snubbed Harry Winks, Aaron Ramsey and van de Beek

Veteran Soccer journalist David Anderson has revealed that Marcelo Bielsa snubbed the opportunity to sign Harry Winks, Aaron Ramsey and van de Beek during last month's transfer window. Writing in the Mirror, Anderson explains that Bielsa's insistence that the squad is good enough to stay up, was the underlining factor why they didn't bring new talent in. He also applauds Leeds for not paying over the odds for Aaronson...

They (Leeds) were offered the chance to sign Harry Winks, Aaron Ramsey and van de Beek, but declined because the players and the deals were not right for them. Leeds chose to be hard to please in January because the consistent message from Bielsa is that he believes his squad is good enough to stay up."

Bielsa dislikes signing players in January because he feels any new acquisition needs a proper pre-season with him to adapt to his exacting physical standards. They were right to stop the bidding for Aaronson at £20million. It was obvious Red Bull Salzburg were not going to sell the US international in January and Leeds risked overpaying for the attacking midfielder by offering more. They are not Newcastle and have to operate within a budget.

Leeds should have at least got the Aaronson deal done

Phil Hay believes Leeds should have secured Brendan Aaronson's services during the January transfer window, even if it meant waiting until the Summer before he arrives at Elland Road. Messrs Orta and Bielsa believe the 21yo has the perfect crudentials to fill the vacant No 10 void. Unfortunately, they could not convince RB Salzburg to part with their prized asset midway through the season. Aaronson himself, was receptive to the idea about joining Leeds, but didn't want to rock the boat, and after two failed bids, Leeds gave up.

We are now hearing, other European clubs including Salzburg's sister club RB Leipzig and Italian giants AC Milan have joined the race. According to Hay, Leeds could have made the most of a bad situation by either securing the American International services, and loaning him back to Salzburg, or having a gentleman's agreement in the Summer:-

There would have been a premium in January definitely and I'm also not sure what the reaction would have been to Leeds making a £20m-£30m signing and then loaning him out. Seems counter-intuitive, at least get the deal done.

Aaronson was very receptive about the idea of moving to Leeds. He just wasn't prepared to rock the boat at Salzburg by insisting on moving now (because Salzburg were extremely resistant to selling him). On the flip side, there's no gentleman's agreement with Salzburg - but the expectation is that they'll be far more open to selling him in the summer window.

Victor Orta - Hero or Villain

Not many people divide opinion as much as Leeds Director of Football Victor Orta. The flamboyant (and sometimes a little crazy) Spaniard was bought to Elland Road at the end of May 2017, just days after Andrea Radrizzani took charge. Orta played a massive role in bringing Marcelo Bielsa to West Yorkshire, and together they have been responsible for the talent coming in and out of the club.

One of the main aims of the club is to bring in, nurture and develop the young talent. Today, we look at the youngsters Orta has bought into the club, and ask whether Victor Orta is worth his weight in Gold, or whether they need an upgrade?


U23 signings

2018
Pascal Struijk - signed from AFC Ajax
Leif Davis - signed from Morecambe
Mateusz Bogusz - signed from Ruch Chorzow

2019
Stuart McKinstry - signed from Motherwell
Liam McCarron - signed from Carlisle United
Illan Meslier - signed from Lorient

2020
Elia Caprile - signed from Chievo Verona
Ian Poveda - signed from Manchester City
Joe Gelhardt - signed from Wigan Athletic
Charlie Allen - signed from Linfield
Cody Drameh - signed from Fulham
Dani van den Heuvel - signed from AFC Ajax
Sam Greenwood - signed from Arsenal
Crysencio Summerville - signed from Feyenoord

2021
Amari Miller - signed from Birmingham City
Leo Hjelde - signed from Celtic
Lewis Bate - signed from Chelsea
Sean McGurk - signed from Wigan Athletic

2022
Mateo Joseph Fernandez - signed from Espanyol

[SG90]

Well if we go down, there's only one man to blame.

Agree on Aaronson. If we want him, get it sorted now. But I imagine he'll end up at Leipzig.

[The Subhuman]

Lots of anti Orta bias here....so this thread will feed that.

[Scoobychief]

theres really nothing else to say thats not been allready said since we didnt strenghten lst summer, winks not too sure on him but van de beek would have been a massive upgrade over forshaw, klich, roberts, rodrigo harrison etc and even at his age ramsey would have done too, so like i said we will either be proved wrong come april or prove right, its a gamble taken so time will tell. players mentioned are not good enough.

[Mountain]

Well if we go down, there's only one man to blame.

And if we stay up, all the fans that slate him for not spending huge sums on transfer fees and wages to stay up are wrong.

[Ratscoot]

Good morning EB et all

So we didn't sign anyone, so a pundit comes up with a list of players that we missed out on and/or turned down I'll add to that list we missed out on:

Mbapp, he was pushing for a move but the right club didn't come in was that Leeds he was holding out for?
Pele I hear he doesn't have a club currently
Sterling he'd come if the money was right
John Terry he's been desperate to get into Leeds for years

So lets rate the one's he's suggested

Ramsey - passed his best on massive money - will look great in the Scottish Prem but then so would I
Van De Beek - Christ he can't even get in to a s**t Scum team
Winks - I've a couple of Spurs mates and they say there's a bigger groan when he comes on, than there is when Tyler comes on for us

[SG90]

And if we stay up, all the fans that slate him for not spending huge sums on transfer fees and wages to stay up are wrong.

It's because we gambled on luck and got lucky. But you can only get lucky once.

[William]

Snubbed.

Such a loaded word.
De Beek couldn't convince two Prem managers to give him a whirl. I was inclined towards him but we already have one scumB.... in the side.
Winks is awful.
Ramsey hardly played.

Great call Marcello.

[Mountain]

It's because we gambled on luck and got lucky. But you can only get lucky once.

You think when Bielsa's succeeds it's down to luck rather than him calling it right and knowing far more about this squad than his critics?

That's just like the "Leeds were only promoted because of Covid" stuff.

[SG90]

You think when Bielsa's succeeds it's down to luck rather than him calling it right and knowing far more about this squad than his critics?

That's just like the "Leeds were only promoted because of Covid" stuff.

No it isn't. We've stood still and gambled on the others not improving, that's what Burnley do and now they've been caught out this season. We haven't been good enough this season, that's evident in results and performances.

[weasel]

Interesting how Hay and fans slate the JKA deal - which was a deal to purchase in a few months time regardless of what happens yet would have effectively liked to have done the same deal with Aaronsen. What happens if we signed the deal and loaned him back, he got injured, suffered a severe lack of form etc. We then have to pay the agreed price regardless.

If we don't get Aaronsen in the summer then there will be other players that will be available that weren't available in January. Plus whilst Bielsa might have liked Aaronsen there is no guarantee that he would still be manager in the summer and a new manager might not want Aaronsen.

As regards the 3 players linked well you have 1 injury prone midfielder in Ramsey so doubtful he would even be able to hack our training. Winks and Van Beek are both deemed not good enough for their present clubs to even be part of their squads. Maybe better as options to fill our squad but I'd rather see Bate being used if needed than sign a player who wouldn't be used to the way Bielsa played, just cos DVB played for Ajax doesn't mean he would slot in straight away and what would it have said to Dan James or Rodrigo if they are dropped for him?

[White Riot]

Seems as if Marcelo is like one of them birds with her nose in the air that you'd ask for a dance at the disco

She'd say "Nah" as she looked intensely bored at her handbag on the floor

I would reply "f**k you then" and boot her handbag off the dancefloor

And off for another pint

[SG90]

If we don't get Aaronsen in the summer then there will be other players that will be available that weren't available in January. Plus whilst Bielsa might have liked Aaronsen there is no guarantee that he would still be manager in the summer and a new manager might not want Aaronsen.

What if Aaronson is the only one Bielsa wants and it's him or nothing? Are we really going to go another window without improving the midfield?

[HarryofOz]

Interesting how Hay and fans slate the JKA deal - which was a deal to purchase in a few months time regardless of what happens yet would have effectively liked to have done the same deal with Aaronsen. What happens if we signed the deal and loaned him back, he got injured, suffered a severe lack of form etc. We then have to pay the agreed price regardless.

If we don't get Aaronsen in the summer then there will be other players that will be available that weren't available in January. Plus whilst Bielsa might have liked Aaronsen there is no guarantee that he would still be manager in the summer and a new manager might not want Aaronsen.

Ironically the Aaronson proposal is far worse than the deal we had re JKA

For JKA we only agreed to sign him if we were promoted and as part of the deal he joined us on loan and was therefore going to be under our management.

For Aaronson they want us to commit to signing him regardless of what happens and leave him there on loan under their management.

[White Riot]

What if Aaronson is the only one Bielsa wants and it's him or nothing? Are we really going to go another window without improving the midfield?

Well we could go back in for Aaronson in summer, and keep all our happy family of promotion winners together, then watch as somebody else snaffles Aaronson and then Radz can announce that Bielsa is happy with the squad and especially our new signing Patrick Bamford

[SG90]

Well we could go back in for Aaronson in summer, and keep all our happy family of promotion winners together, then watch as somebody else snaffles Aaronson and then Radz can announce that Bielsa is happy with the squad and especially our new signing Patrick Bamford

We all know that's what's going to happen

[Chilli D]

The transfer window has closed, we've got who we've got and it's time to move on.
Let's see how we go. I'm confident we will survive.

As for the U23's signings you have to say Orta has done pretty well.
Several are regular first team squad members and there are others who could make it ie McKinstry McCarron, McGurk, Miller, Allen and hopefully Bogusz when he comes back.

[Eireleeds1]

How could we sign Aaronson for the summer. we don't know what division well be in. We certainly wouldn't be forking out 20m to bring him to the Championship. There's clearly going to be a major investment required when we try moving from our current ambition of survival to a mid table team or better. Curious to know when that'll be and who'll have the finances to oversee that. Will it be Radz, 49ers or will they both cash in and let a Newcastle type owner have a go. Obviously Bielsa will hardly still be involved if that's a couple of seasons away or more

[White Riot]

We all know that's what's going to happen

I think we'll stay up this season, just about.

But if Bielsa stays and there's no refreshment of the squad I doubt that KP and Raphinha will be hanging around.

If we stick with this squad and coach then I think we're a cert for relegation next season.

[Mountain]

No it isn't. We've stood still and gambled on the others not improving, that's what Burnley do and now they've been caught out this season. We haven't been good enough this season, that's evident in results and performances.

If we stay up, then we're good enough to stay up. It's not a fluke. It's not a gamble. It's because we have a great manager who trusts this squad. Fans who don't like the manager or the squad and take the Gabby Agbonlahor/Karen Carney stance of "Leeds got lucky" won't change that.