Jesse Marsch

[mentalcase]

Was thinking more of Chapelallman and others who loved nothing better than to pile in after a bad result with abuse like "fatboy", "c**t" and anti Argentinian bigotry, and slating other fans, saying they "gave them the creeps" and comparing them to "scientologists".

We can go back and analyse the posts. They clearly enjoyed it.

And most notably they are the first to suggest that those who criticise the manager want us to lose... they jump to that conclusion because that's precisely what they were doing for months..

Mr mountain, it was I that called him 'fatboy' I make no apologies for that, he annoyed me by dragging my famous Leeds Utd down to the depths of despair, yes, he got us up to the promised land and I tip my hat to him, I thank him wholeheartedly, but, enough was enough, we were (still might be) on course to being relegated because he simply wouldn't alter, or tweak his system slightly, the players asked him to, he refused, he got the sack because of his stubbornness, because of his inability to keep the players ,and board of directors, and , the fans onside, FACT, he was sacked, not let go, but SACKED, its on his CV, now.
No one will ever know what would have happened, its gone, its done with, get behind the new manager, the king is dead, long live the king.
JM may not be the answer, infact, if he dosen't stop playing Bielsa favourites he won't be the answer, at the moment he needs to keep us in the premier league and then re-access in the the summer, the board need to back him to the hilt, as we , the fans do.
We all have differing opinions, no one of us is always correct, we only assume we are, based largely on what we see, and what we presume, neither of us are managers/coaches or professional players or pundits, but, we are, all with something in common, Leeds United fans, football fans, sometimes we say stuff in the heat of the moment, I know I do, maybe I ought to leave the forum until a few hours later at times, even the next day, some may say I should leave altogether !!
To me the important thing is to get behind the new guy, the old guy has gone, no amount of grieving will bring him back, I didn't like Adamson taking over from Armfield, but I got behind him, at least till it went tits up, but again, that was down to the board.

[SG90]

I think Marsch deserves some slack with his subs tbh, as Rodrigo was injured. Not sure who he could have replaced, Greenwood? Not good enough for the PL imo.

Looks like Bamford could only do 45 mins, we need to protect him so we have him for the run in.

[SG90]

Jesse Marsch
2.91 v1.63 Norwich
0.22 v 1.26 Villa
2.15 v 0.39 Leicester

5.38 v 3.28


Marcelo Bielsa
0.83 v 0.99 Norwich
1.79 v 1.03 Villa
2.35 v 1.60 Leicester

4.97 v 3.62

Thats the xG for the reverse fixtures this season, Leeds on the left opposition on the right.

Know many fans don't like it but clubs use it and respect it so think its worthwhile.

xG shows that overall we created slightly better chances and conceded fewer threatening ones overall under Marsch.

Not worth getting carried away with but ant improvement is a bonus

Norwich at Carrow Road was comfortably our worst performance of the season. We were dreadful, but somehow Norwich managed to be worse and that was when Farke was in charge. Norwich have improved a lot since Smith came in, so yesterday was always gonna be harder. But we were comfortably the better side yesterday, just poor finishing made it look closer than it was.

I wonder if there's something wrong psychologically with the players, as we haven't had a 2-0 lead all season and that must dwell on their minds as the clock ticks down.

[BGwhite]

Agreed.

Absolutely give the start to Joffy and let PB have time later against tiring defenders. Hopefully PB is ok after yesterday but he needs a lot of tlc . If we can get a good half out of him against wolves and maybe grab a goal it'll set him up nicely for a good finish to the season after the international break.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

[BGwhite]

All the time under Bielsa the finishing has been poor but that's what you get with below par players and it won't change until we are in a position to upgrade on them. Joffy hasn't been given anywhere near enough of a chance but again he showed yesterday that he knows what's required and I bet Rapha nearly died of shock when finally someone got on the end of his cross. PB showed his rusty side (or should it be 'absolutely rotten to the core') when he nearly hit the corner flag from a guilt edged chance but that will improve .... hopefully !

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[William]

Maybe you should give the manager a bit of credit for our first win in ages ?

And we are no longer leaking about 10 goals in every match now that the genius is no longer at the club.

He did make us worse by bringing on a CB in place of a AMF. Not a brilliant move. It gave them control in the middle of the park.
I know Rod needed subbed but that was a really awful decision to make . As was putting James up front when Bamford came off which we have to admit is not a solution especially as you have such a talented young man as Geldhardt on the bench. Who proved that to us with his header and then being in the correct place to allow Raph to find him.


Make no mistake if that had ended 1-1 all the talk would have been about those two substitutions and especially when Marsch deciding to shut up shop with half an hour to go against the worst team in the league.

[Kennyb41]

Re: Jesse Marsch- RUMOUR - Confirmed
Unread post by BGwhite » Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:42 pm

Hey mods! Why is the time wrong on the clock, is it something i need to adjust somewhere, i keep thinking BG's a time traveler ?

[mentalcase]

He did make us worse by bringing on a CB in place of a AMF. Not a brilliant move. It gave them control in the middle of the park.
I know Rod needed subbed but that was a really awful decision to make . As was putting James up front when Bamford came off which we have to admit is not a solution especially as you have such a talented young man as Geldhardt on the bench. Who proved that to us with his header and then being in the correct place to allow Raph to find him.


Make no mistake if that had ended 1-1 all the talk would have been about those two substitutions and especially when Marsch deciding to shut up shop with half an hour to go against the worst team in the league.

Mt sentiments exactly william, couldn't fathom the reasoning for that sub, JG for Rodders yea, but not what he did, anyhow, it panned out the way JM knew it would eh

[Kennyb41]

I'm blocking you now - no point in wasting time on trolls.

Now now guys come on, there's no need to behave like children

There's no call for wind ups, this is a wonderful site, now.

I never block anyone, i enjoy reading their shite and forming a profile of them, and tbh (and you know it) anyone that says they're gonna block someone, never does, it's a well known fact.

Stay cool, they are usually just an anonymous knob you don't even know and probably an imposter.
At the end of the day, it's all good banter.

[velo]

c**k on again CJ. The sole requirement of JM this season is to keep us in the PL, if he does he's done a great job and can really get to work on improving this squad , if he doesn't it wouldn't really surprise me because Bielsa left them in a right old mess !

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

Nail on head mate

[weasel]

JM may not be the answer

That for me is really the main point. We can't say with any certainty that we would have stayed up or gone down with Bielsa still in charge. We can't say with certainty that Bielsa would have got better results in the 3 fixtures that Marsch has been in charge - Bielsa's record in the reverse fixtures saw us gain 5 points as opposed to 3 but it is speculative to compare because for all it was against the same teams there were different line ups due to players available for both sides, different levels of form that the opposition were playing at etc.

So we come back to the bit I highlighted. I'm judging JM by his decisions and how he manages. I'm not judging him against Bielsa but against every manager and possibly also against all us 'armchair' managers too. I'm going to judge him on the 3 main decisions he made.

I was happy with the starting line-up. I'd have probably gone with James up front (alongside Bamford) and Harrison starting instead of Rodrigo - that was based on my judgement of Rodrigo's body language and shows how silly it is at times for us fans to pick a side when we don't see how a player is doing in training, how their attitude seems etc. So I can tip my hat to Marsch for the starting line-up and the decision to start with Rodrigo, also looked a good decision to play Raphinha on the left. So Marsch gets credit for that although we will never know if my starting line-up might have performed better (i.e. James may have bagged a couple etc) so we can only judge on what did happen and as such JM got his starting line-up right.

On to the second half and the substitution of Rodrigo for Koch was the big call. I wouldn't have made that decision, some managers would and some fans would but I wouldn't. Similar to my point about not being able to judge whether my starting line-up would have done better or worse we can't judge on whether my choice to bring Gelhardt on instead of Koch would have worked so we can only judge by what actually happened and it was horrendous. We lost our shape and invited Norwich into a game that they had been passengers in for the most part. So in judging as to what did actually happen JM deserves the criticism for that decision.

The final decision was to bring Gelhardt on after Norwich equalised. Obviously this proved to be the correct decision given JG getting the winner so again Marsch deserves full credit for that. Likely a lot of managers and fans would also have made that decision also some would have not had the clarity of thought to do it.

So definite plusses and minuses but the jury is still out for me. The hope is that JM can keep us above the relegation zone and then next season will be the real judgement as he gets to shape the side how he wants it and it is less easy to compare him against Bielsa becasue there will be players that he wanted and a formation and style he chooses given the players he want. It is easy to compare him against Bielsa at present simply because this is Bielsa's squad.

[weasel]

I doubt Marsch would have opted for Koch if he had other options at his disposal.

I think Marsch deserves some slack with his subs tbh, as Rodrigo was injured. Not sure who he could have replaced, Greenwood?

The option Marsch had when Rodrigo was injured included Gelhardt which would have been the near like for like replacement. Another alternative would have been bringing Summerville on and moving either Raphina or Harrison in to the no.10. Either decision, personally it would have been JG for me given the options at that point, keeps the shape.

[weasel]

Jesse Marsch
2.91 v1.63 Norwich
0.22 v 1.26 Villa
2.15 v 0.39 Leicester

5.38 v 3.28


Marcelo Bielsa
0.83 v 0.99 Norwich
1.79 v 1.03 Villa
2.35 v 1.60 Leicester

4.97 v 3.62

Thats the xG for the reverse fixtures this season, Leeds on the left opposition on the right.

Know many fans don't like it but clubs use it and respect it so think its worthwhile.

xG shows that overall we created slightly better chances and conceded fewer threatening ones overall under Marsch.

Not worth getting carried away with but ant improvement is a bonus

The xg really is a strange one. For example yesterday I think it doesn't reflect how superior we were because we got into some great positions but made wrong choices which led to chances not being created. As such the XG doesn't really reflect the superioty. Raphinha hitting the bar twice, miskicking with the goal at his mercy, Bamford's miss, Struyjk's header then shooting over an open net etc.

Then the Aston Villa is a strange one as they absolutely dominated. Out of the 6 fixtures that was easily the most one sided yet xg has it as 1-0 to Villa.

I think though we need to get away from comparing to Bielsa. That ship has sailed, rightly or wrongly. We had some good performances this season under Bielsa and some bad ones and likewise it has been similar under JM. Hopefully we stay up, JM brings in his players, moulds his squad and we then see how he does when the team really starts to play his way rather than the situation now where we are playing some Bielsa ball and some JM ball.

[Jaydog]

The xg really is a strange one. For example yesterday I think it doesn't reflect how superior we were because we got into some great positions but made wrong choices which led to chances not being created. As such the XG doesn't really reflect the superioty. Raphinha hitting the bar twice, miskicking with the goal at his mercy, Bamford's miss, Struyjk's header then shooting over an open net etc.

Then the Aston Villa is a strange one as they absolutely dominated. Out of the 6 fixtures that was easily the most one sided yet xg has it as 1-0 to Villa.

I think though we need to get away from comparing to Bielsa. That ship has sailed, rightly or wrongly. We had some good performances this season under Bielsa and some bad ones and likewise it has been similar under JM. Hopefully we stay up, JM brings in his players, moulds his squad and we then see how he does when the team really starts to play his way rather than the situation now where we are playing some Bielsa ball and some JM ball.

XG doesn’t set out to show superiority in the strict sense. Just probability of each chance going in expressed as a fraction. Also build up play, defence position prior to chance is factored in.
I’d agree with it in the Villa game as 3-0 flattered them based on actual clear cut chances, it was more how terrible we were that exacerbated the difference. However yesterday is confusing, Rapha x2, Paddy x 1, Pascal x 1 and the goal. True probability on those is lowest on Rodrigo but the other 4? I don’t see how they arrive at near 3 for the whole game. Lies, damn lies & statistics

[Chilli D]

I wasn't impressed whatsoever with Koch coming on, all hindsight, really.

The good thing is apart from the Villa game, we are still playing good attacking football.

Marsch hasn't resorted to Big Sam/Warnock/Bruce tactics.

Koch has to play CB or not at all for me. He seems totally lost at DM. If we're going to insist on playing a CB there it should be Struijk as he's a far stronger tackler.
Hopefully we'll get some good news about Kalvin soon.

[mentalcase]

That for me is really the main point. We can't say with any certainty that we would have stayed up or gone down with Bielsa still in charge. We can't say with certainty that Bielsa would have got better results in the 3 fixtures that Marsch has been in charge - Bielsa's record in the reverse fixtures saw us gain 5 points as opposed to 3 but it is speculative to compare because for all it was against the same teams there were different line ups due to players available for both sides, different levels of form that the opposition were playing at etc.

So we come back to the bit I highlighted. I'm judging JM by his decisions and how he manages. I'm not judging him against Bielsa but against every manager and possibly also against all us 'armchair' managers too. I'm going to judge him on the 3 main decisions he made.

I was happy with the starting line-up. I'd have probably gone with James up front (alongside Bamford) and Harrison starting instead of Rodrigo - that was based on my judgement of Rodrigo's body language and shows how silly it is at times for us fans to pick a side when we don't see how a player is doing in training, how their attitude seems etc. So I can tip my hat to Marsch for the starting line-up and the decision to start with Rodrigo, also looked a good decision to play Raphinha on the left. So Marsch gets credit for that although we will never know if my starting line-up might have performed better (i.e. James may have bagged a couple etc) so we can only judge on what did happen and as such JM got his starting line-up right.

On to the second half and the substitution of Rodrigo for Koch was the big call. I wouldn't have made that decision, some managers would and some fans would but I wouldn't. Similar to my point about not being able to judge whether my starting line-up would have done better or worse we can't judge on whether my choice to bring Gelhardt on instead of Koch would have worked so we can only judge by what actually happened and it was horrendous. We lost our shape and invited Norwich into a game that they had been passengers in for the most part. So in judging as to what did actually happen JM deserves the criticism for that decision.

The final decision was to bring Gelhardt on after Norwich equalised. Obviously this proved to be the correct decision given JG getting the winner so again Marsch deserves full credit for that. Likely a lot of managers and fans would also have made that decision also some would have not had the clarity of thought to do it.

So definite plusses and minuses but the jury is still out for me. The hope is that JM can keep us above the relegation zone and then next season will be the real judgement as he gets to shape the side how he wants it and it is less easy to compare him against Bielsa becasue there will be players that he wanted and a formation and style he chooses given the players he want. It is easy to compare him against Bielsa at present simply because this is Bielsa's squad.

Agree wholeheartedly, and the part in bold is the correct way to go about things.
On balance, well, result wise it worked out fine, IF, we hadn't have won, I, as I did at the time in the stands, question his decision to replace Rodders with Koch, we did lose shape, and conceded unnescessary possession at times, the game was going our way and Rodders was having urgueably his best performance in a United shirt, it was, and still is puzzling, as was leaving a real threat in JG on the bench for as long as he did, was it pure desperation he was thrown on ! Either way, it matters not, 3 precious points and the players will deffo have their tails up now.
Jury is out, but, hopefully, the majority will get behind him.
Staying up is the main aim, but the pre season is equally as massive, we need new talent, especially a back up keeper and central midfielder.

[The Subhuman]

Not sure I'd have expected Paddy to put that away, is rust factored in, the fact he's left footed? ? Not to mention he's a one in 4/5 kind of player. Struijk right foot, snatching. I think the miss was more likely. Had it fallen to Raph I'd have expected it.

If you expect a FK from outside of the box to go in then whey aren't goals scored from most of them. So it becomes a calculation of percentages based on, often, the wrong data and the human eye and how well that eye knows the player/s concerned.

[1964white]

Make no mistake if that had ended 1-1 all the talk would have been about those two substitutions and especially when Marsch deciding to shut up shop with half an hour to go against the worst team in the league

I was blowing a fuse all my pals around me were scratching their heads tbh.

[DDB220]

The option Marsch had when Rodrigo was injured included Gelhardt which would have been the near like for like replacement. Another alternative would have been bringing Summerville on and moving either Raphina or Harrison in to the no.10. Either decision, personally it would have been JG for me given the options at that point, keeps the shape.

The options I make reference to are in relation to (Presumed on my part)Marsch’s mind set. It was evident that bringing Koch on was an attempt to tighten things up and play on the counter. The point I am making is that bringing Koch on to achieve that had a negative result in terms of losing grip of the game, rather than stifling Norwich. The reality is, changing ROdrigo for a more defensive possession based midfielder and moving Klich into the 10 role is sensible game management IMO, If you have such a player in the absence of Phillips - Bate is the nearest we have but Marsch for whatever reason decided against that and went with Koch.
Now that IMO is a symptom of a thin squad. Considering we had everything available on the bench.
Personally, I would have opted for Gelhardt as well, but I am not training the players nor do I have any qualifications beyond years and years as a spectator and playing the game at local pub side level. So bravado without penalty is an easy decision.

[Jaydog]

Not sure I'd have expected Paddy to put that away, is rust factored in, the fact he's left footed? ? Not to mention he's a one in 4/5 kind of player. Struijk right foot, snatching. I think the miss was more likely. Had it fallen to Raph I'd have expected it.

If you expect a FK from outside of the box to go in then whey aren't goals scored from most of them. So it becomes a calculation of percentages based on, often, the wrong data and the human eye and how well that eye knows the player/s concerned.

I can see it’s analytical use for some people but I don’t bother with it too much. Maybe from a betting angle.
Wolves beat Watford 4-0 at home with XG of 1.31 - 0.51. If you want to know the weather look through the window