Despite or because

[weasel]

Have England done well because of Southgate being in charge or despite him being in charge?

Under Southgate England got to the semi finals of the World Cup, there best outcome since 1990, and also their best ever European Champioships by getting to the final. Whilst many were hailing Southgate others were pointing out that we had had very easy opposition - however those views were largely drowned out at the time by the masses. Southgate main decisions are 1) Usually playing two holding midfielders and trying to remain solid knowing that we have then got the quality to score goals, mainly from set pieces and 2) Making substitutions in the final to bring cold players on to take penalties.

We have arguably the strongest England side that most of us can remember. Forget the supposed 'golden generation' of the mid 90s this side has far greater squad depth so should we be doing better and would we be doing better with a manager with a more impressive CV than getting Middlesborough relegated in his only previous job?

Or has Southgate galvanised the squad, got them playing as a team and playing with a style which although isn't pleasing on the eye has got us results. By being hard to beat and good at set pieces it means we can beat any team. Are the recent results simply down to fatigue at the end of the season and a bit of experimenting?

Would Southgate make the shortlist of any premeir league club if they were looking for a manager?

So when we did well under Southgate was it becuase of him or did we win simply because we have such a good team that we won despite the manager?

[Kennyb41]

Don't get me going Weasel.

[Kennyb41]

Me now getting the feeling the boyz want the boring prick Gareth sacked.

Will a player revolt work, too close to the WC for that.

Bert for England.

[BlackHillsPaul]

England are completely overrated with or without Southgate. A Euro Final at home should be expected. A WC Semi-final big deal. Beat the USA in an official match and I'll be impressed. Because it has never happened. You are the footballing equivalent to Mexico. An isolated football mentality that drinks its own Cool Aid. Your players don't typically thrive abroad. You overrate domestic glory. You live, play, and train in a hive mind. And when it all goes wrong you spend the next 4 years building yourselves back up to your unrealistic expectations. I fart in your general direction.

How's that for banter Mates??? See you in Qatar.....

[Kennyb41]

Banter ? You're right, it happens in virtually all sports we do, we beat ourselves from the off with dumb decisions and appointments.

I actually think that yesterdays cricket performance might be the catalyst for all that to change (well it should in cricket anyway)

Go with the win positive attitude and we might start to actually win something, we are fcking defeatist all the time and rarely throw caution to the wind like yesterday, and yesterday is down to the new New Zealander at the helm and Ben Stokes as well probably saying 'fck all this tippy tappy defensive shyte LET'S GO FOR IT!)

Southgate is an utter fcking clueless numptie without an attacking bone in his body, a fcking complete stiff, we will beat trash easily, but if the GErmans had the talent we have atm there's no way they'd let it go to waste, same with Spain France etc etc etc

And btw, wtf have you been eating ?

[VinnysTattoo]

Southgate was fortunate in the Euro final that those penalties were missed. They totally deflected any criticism which should have gone his way.
His game management was pants, especially when Italy changed things.
Even at the end he waited too long to get his penalty takers on. They came straight off the bench and virtually their first kicks were penalties. Madness, especially when Grealish and KP volunteered to take them.

[billysboots]

Don’t forget, beaten by a poor Italian team who didn’t deserve to be in the final.

[Mountain]

We have arguably the strongest England side that most of us can remember.

Hands up...I think it's one of the weakest English teams ever. The main players are Rice and Phillips, that's miles away from the days when Robson, Gazza or even Scholes/Gerrard were amongst the best in the world. Pickford in goal? Stones and Maguire at CH? I think we can safely say they will never be spoken about in the same breath as Ferdinand and Terry. The one world class player is Kane, and Foden looks like he will be good too. Like Jarrod Bowen started last night. Jarrod Bowen.

[Clacton White]

I am English , but not interested in watching full England .Southgate got the job as he was in the right place at the right time, nothing that he has achieved as a manager .He is just a woke FA yes man , and that's the criteria they will want for the next one. Everyone knows that England got favourable draws in last two competitions and many of the big sides were transitional , yet still we failed to win . England are awful to watch under Southgate , I usually avoid watching them anyway ( so how do I know they are awful , usually reports or other people) .
Mind you it shows how out of touch I am with England as the times players are picked that I have never heard of nowadays is staggering .
As you may summise , it's a despite from me !

[RobbieLeeds]

I’ll say despite. I think this England team is incredibly gifted, we get to see this week-to-week (aside from Harry Maguire) but on the international stage they just look as competitive as Stevie Wonder playing hide and seek. There’s great talent all over the park and I think I’ll say I expect them to get to the WC semi final with their strongest 11 but I don’t see it with Southgate making them play the way they do atm

[SG90]

Don't rate Southgate at all and wanted him gone after the Euros, but I really don't want Fwank and the sickening cult-like hysteria that'll follow from the media.

[SG90]

I’ll say despite. I think this England team is incredibly gifted, we get to see this week-to-week (aside from Harry Maguire) but on the international stage they just look as competitive as Stevie Wonder playing hide and seek. There’s great talent all over the park and I think I’ll say I expect them to get to the WC semi final with their strongest 11 but I don’t see it with Southgate making them play the way they do atm

You see them playing alongside much better players though, making them look better than they are. What have Foden, Mount, TAA etc done in an England shirt?

I think fans need to be realistic. We're a second tier nation in Europe and probably 3rd tier in the world, when you add the South Americans. That's why I was so angry at Southgate bottling the Euros, as that chance won't come around again.

[SG90]

Hands up...I think it's one of the weakest English teams ever. The main players are Rice and Phillips, that's miles away from the days when Robson, Gazza or even Scholes/Gerrard were amongst the best in the world. Pickford in goal? Stones and Maguire at CH? I think we can safely say they will never be spoken about in the same breath as Ferdinand and Terry. The one world class player is Kane, and Foden looks like he will be good too. Like Jarrod Bowen started last night. Jarrod Bowen.

Kane isn't world class. Most of his England goals have been penalties, where he's been completely anonymous all game.

[Cjay]

Despite

Southgate isnt a good manager.

Just part of the old boys club.

Look at the teams he has beaten in competitive fixtures

World Cup qualifiers

Malta
Scotland
Lithuania
Malta
Slovakia
Slovenia
Lithuania

World Cup groups
Tunisia
Panama
Colombia
Sweden.

Euro qualifiers
Czech Republic
Macedonia
Bulgaria
Kosovo
Montenegro
Kosovo


World Cup Qualifiers
San Marino
Albania
Poland

Euros
Croatia
Czech Republic
Germany
Ukraine
Denmark

World Cup qualifiers
Hungary
Andora
Andora
Albania
San Marino.

I could have done that as England manager.

He doesn't get the best out of our attacking players.

[mentalcase]

I thought we would go on and win the world cup after 2 very good previous tournaments, but sadly, we've gone backwards, he still dosen't know his starting 11 which is staggering.
Not knowing your first 11 and still blooding players so close to a major tournament is like LUFC doing nothing in the transfer windows and having a torrid pre-season, alarm bells are ringing.

[WhiteRose]

Personally I’m a casual England fan, got no interest whatsoever in games outside of major tournaments and it seems the players don’t either. The nations league is a complete waste of time, players should of been sent on holiday after the season not having to endure this. Never rated Southgate but I won’t conflate taking the knee etc with his managerial skills as many want to do, in football terms he is way out of his depth, no form at club football and just thinks been matey with the players is the way to go. God knows who we could bring in but they need to be willing to play modern football and have a go at teams.

[Leeds1000]

Go on Gareth it looks like i am your only fan in the house. Forget these pointless meaningless friendlies its the WC that matters. Are we good enough as a nation... Not on your nelly but the bookies will have us down as one of the favorites.

[RobbieLeeds]

You see them playing alongside much better players though, making them look better than they are. What have Foden, Mount, TAA etc done in an England shirt?

I think fans need to be realistic. We're a second tier nation in Europe and probably 3rd tier in the world, when you add the South Americans. That's why I was so angry at Southgate bottling the Euros, as that chance won't come around again.

I fully agree here, I wouldn’t quite put mount with TAA and Foden but they’ve all tended to be passengers in the squad, which is why I say on paper it *should* do really well
But in reality it’s much more… depressing

[John in Louisiana]

Don't get me going Weasel.

As though you needed someone's help to get going.

[Clacton White]

Banter ? You're right, it happens in virtually all sports we do, we beat ourselves from the off with dumb decisions and appointments.

I actually think that yesterdays cricket performance might be the catalyst for all that to change (well it should in cricket anyway)

Go with the win positive attitude and we might start to actually win something, we are fcking defeatist all the time and rarely throw caution to the wind like yesterday, and yesterday is down to the new New Zealander at the helm and Ben Stokes as well probably saying 'fck all this tippy tappy defensive shyte LET'S GO FOR IT!)

Southgate is an utter fcking clueless numptie without an attacking bone in his body, a fcking complete stiff, we will beat trash easily, but if the GErmans had the talent we have atm there's no way they'd let it go to waste, same with Spain France etc etc etc

And btw, wtf have you been eating ?

The French have produced and used effectively their talent for years now , they are usually a good and interesting side to watch , unlike boring England . Don't know nor care how long the yes man has in charge now , but you know the one who follows will just be another yes man. Don't rock the boat , play safe........but there isn't a vast amount of decent talented English managers right now , Howe , Potter and maybe Cooper aside.....and Howe ain't leaving Newcastle for England , then you go to Gerrard or that other thing L*****d , now if that gets the job I would actively support every side England play against .