The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
User avatar
mentalcase
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2869
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by mentalcase »

faaip wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:20 pm Nope, because they all won't start every game as forward .... or we'd have 15 players on the pitch
Pardon, why would we have 15 players on the pitch !!
Only JG has been underused as a sub, the other 3 have regularly laked together, but, have regularly failed to score what you suggest they are capable of.
Keep Fighting
User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 45187
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by faaip »

mentalcase wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:03 pm Pardon, why would we have 15 players on the pitch !!
Only JG has been underused as a sub, the other 3 have regularly laked together, but, have regularly failed to score what you suggest they are capable of.
Because they play out of position, Rodrigo has barely played the 9 for us, Bielsa used him as a attacking mid, as had JM for the most partBamford has been injured but scored in the teens when he wasn't and Joffy doesn't get starts really.. I'm talking 38 games playing up front where they would be in the beset position to score in the double digits....

15 would be

1 GK
4 DEF
2 DMF
3 Mid
2 wing and
3 forwards

if we were to start everyone at once

Not sure how difficult that is to understand are are you being deliberately obtuse ?
Cry Summerville and let slip the dogs of war
User avatar
mentalcase
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2869
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by mentalcase »

faaip wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:39 pm Because they play out of position, Rodrigo has barely played the 9 for us, Bielsa used him as a attacking mid, as had JM for the most partBamford has been injured but scored in the teens when he wasn't and Joffy doesn't get starts really.. I'm talking 38 games playing up front where they would be in the beset position to score in the double digits....

15 would be

1 GK
4 DEF
2 DMF
3 Mid
2 wing and
3 forwards

if we were to start everyone at once

Not sure how difficult that is to understand are are you being deliberately obtuse ?
You can talk.
All 3 have laked together, all 3 have failed to score what you suggest, if you think can score that many, on what assumption ??
You continually like to potray that youare the font of all knowledge, your'e not, far from it, I suggest instead of listening on t'wireless you actually watch the games live, then post something relevant to what youv'e watched, not listened to Dorigo / Whelan / Cross etc.
Then again, your'e the one who championed roberts till he was shown the door for being inept, or in your words " aregular starter and welsh international"
Now, is that too difficult to understand ??
Keep Fighting
User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 45187
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by faaip »

mentalcase wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:22 pm You can talk.
All 3 have laked together, all 3 have failed to score what you suggest, if you think can score that many, on what assumption ??
You continually like to potray that youare the font of all knowledge, your'e not, far from it, I suggest instead of listening on t'wireless you actually watch the games live, then post something relevant to what youv'e watched, not listened to Dorigo / Whelan / Cross etc.
Then again, your'e the one who championed roberts till he was shown the door for being inept, or in your words " aregular starter and welsh international"
Now, is that too difficult to understand ??
Go on then find me the 38 games in a season Gelhardt has played, not sub minutes proper minutes to start with, I'm not the font of all knowledge just a rational judge not affected by bias or emption
Cry Summerville and let slip the dogs of war
User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 45187
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by faaip »

mentalcase wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:22 pm You can talk.
All 3 have laked together, all 3 have failed to score what you suggest, if you think can score that many, on what assumption ??
You continually like to potray that youare the font of all knowledge, your'e not, far from it, I suggest instead of listening on t'wireless you actually watch the games live, then post something relevant to what youv'e watched, not listened to Dorigo / Whelan / Cross etc.
Then again, your'e the one who championed roberts till he was shown the door for being inept, or in your words " aregular starter and welsh international"
Now, is that too difficult to understand ??
Go on then find me the 38 games in a season Gelhardt has played, not sub minutes proper minutes to start with, I'm not the font of all knowledge just a rational judge not affected by bias or emotion

Sigh.. Again for the back seats, I never said Roberts should start just that he was a decent option of the bench and given the injury crisis he was, there's a player there and I see he worked himself a nice opportunity v Sunderland I think it was.. I watch without blinkers
Cry Summerville and let slip the dogs of war
User avatar
Scoobychief
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1894
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:18 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by Scoobychief »

Another survival scrap on our hands then this season, we will only spend if the right players become available, have you ever heard such s**t, why dont they just say were not getting anyone else, because we got stiched up by barcelona who will probably only ever pay around 25m for raphinha and radzs is not prepared to spend any more money which he hasn't got anyway. without a striker to REPLACE bamford not bullshit to be under study to him, and a creative midfielder and a recognised LB, we will be in a relegation battle AGAIN this season and then no doubt the vultures will be hovering around possibly Aaronsson and 40m offered and au revoir to him. Of course it is only my opinion this, but we are still way too light weight up front and panic like headless chicken when under attack. chelsea will expose our weaknesses this sunday thats for sure.
User avatar
SaraM
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6272
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by SaraM »

faaip wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:45 am Not another manager in the world with MB’s philosophy, honour and ethics. Almost certainly well on the spectrum I identify heavily with him.

For me Marsch was about as good as we could have gotten

as ever I want us to succeed.
Totally agree with the first and final part.

For the middle bit... no, I think Bielsa's first season in the prem raised our profile such that someone decent might've been interested in continuing his work.

Marsch is unproven, and has a completely different system, so is a poor fit and a step down.
User avatar
Ellandback1
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6998
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by Ellandback1 »

User avatar
mentalcase
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2869
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by mentalcase »

faaip wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:29 pm Go on then find me the 38 games in a season Gelhardt has played, not sub minutes proper minutes to start with, I'm not the font of all knowledge just a rational judge not affected by bias or emotion

Sigh.. Again for the back seats, I never said Roberts should start just that he was a decent option of the bench and given the injury crisis he was, there's a player there and I see he worked himself a nice opportunity v Sunderland I think it was.. I watch without blinkers
Never said Joe had laked 38 games , I actually go so know how many he does, so roberts made a nice opportunity v sunderland and that makes him the number1 ,could'nt make it up.
And yes, you did say he was worthy of a start, and yes, you did have him continually in your starting 11 under your silly firat team, as if anyone who actually watches a game would be swayed by it.
Daftie :tup:
Keep Fighting
User avatar
mentalcase
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2869
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by mentalcase »

faaip wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:39 pm
Because they play out of position

Odd that, you also championed bielsa and said he wasn't playing anyone out of position, no such things as 'square pegs in round holes'
You forget what you post because you want people to think like you know what your'e on about, I don't think you know what your'e on about.
Keep Fighting
User avatar
John in Louisiana
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 7375
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:09 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by John in Louisiana »

SaraM wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:04 pm

For the middle bit... no, I think Bielsa's first season in the prem raised our profile such that someone decent might've been interested in continuing his work.

Marsch is unproven, and has a completely different system, so is a poor fit and a step down.
First of all, Marsch is someone decent.

Second of all, this team we have now is significantly better than the one Bielsa left Marsch. So how is Marsch a step down?

Third, Bielsa's second season in the prem lowered our profile such that a top flight manager, with a proven record, wouldn't want anything to do with us.
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 20500
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by Cjay »

The club always "trust" the players they have.

They said the same last season and look what happened.

I blamed Bielsa for the small squad last season and I do still believe he was 1 driving force as he has said many many times he likes a small squad of 18 first team players backed up by a few youth players.

It was his way before Leeds and would likely be his way after.

That being said I do think it was a convenient excuse for a board that wants to keep costs down.

Orta himself said that the club aimed to do similar this season then hid behind the "pathway" excuse.

If a youth player is good enough they will force there way through regardless.

Other clubs don't keep there squad small for the sole reason of youth players breaking through, it's nonsense.

Just plays on the natural desire fans have to support academy players.

The board wants a small squad to keep the wage bill down.

I don't think the club ever had any intention of spending any more than we received.

If KP had stayed as Radz said they expected then would the club have funded the extra £40mil signings from there own pocket? Or would they have not signed the additional players which based on order would have been Adams, Kristensen and Roca because the Raph fee went on Sinisterra and Aaronson?

The board said the 5 players they signed were the 5 identified early so presumably would have been signed anyway.

On that basis we should have an additional £40mil to spend because they said they didn't expect KP to leave.

What about the £30mil for De Ketelaere? Where was that coming from? Harrison I expect.

This has become a rant . . . Apologies.

But basically if the board didn't expect KP to leave and the 5 players we signed were planned anyway then we should have the £40Mil or so left to spend that the club had set aside for Roca, Adams and Kristensen because KP was sold unexpectedly so the original cash should still be available not to mention the £30mil for De Ketelaere given he was apparently the 6th main target?

Where is this additional £70mil?
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
User avatar
SaraM
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6272
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by SaraM »

John in Louisiana wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:36 pm First of all, Marsch is someone decent.

Second of all, this team we have now is significantly better than the one Bielsa left Marsch. So how is Marsch a step down?
If the team is better because we have finally strengthened the squad, that is not a measure either of Marsch's ability as a coach, nor of his standing in the game.

We're still waiting for his equivalent to Stoke 2018, where we see a convincing performance for 90 minutes with a clear indication of how his system will work, and how he will get the best out of the players.

He is unproven at this level, and unproven as a coach who can develop players and get the best out of them. How can that not be a step down? 14 games in and much of the fanbase are unconvinced... when is it all going to come together?
User avatar
andrewjohnsmith
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3951
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:58 pm
Location: California (Donny Born-n-Bred)
Contact:

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

Cjay wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:45 pm The club always "trust" the players they have.
I would expect any club, boardroom, or coach to say openly that they trust the players they have. Any coach except Frank Lampard. But that's no indication on what's going on behind the scenes. Scouting and bids are going on constantly. But we're always going to support our current players and say we trust the team we have.
We've been through it all together. And we've had our ups and downs
CHAPELALLMAN
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2143
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:57 am

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

mentalcase wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:02 pm faaip wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:39 pm
Because they play out of position

Odd that, you also championed bielsa and said he wasn't playing anyone out of position, no such things as 'square pegs in round holes'
You forget what you post because you want people to think like you know what your'e on about, I don't think you know what your'e on about.
He doesn't - but his conceit is such that he likes to pour forth his football expertise and wisdom on here...
User avatar
SaraM
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6272
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by SaraM »

CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:28 pm He doesn't - but his conceit is such that he likes to pour forth his football expertise and wisdom on here...
Ironic much.
CHAPELALLMAN
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2143
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:57 am

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

SaraM wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:50 pm If the team is better because we have finally strengthened the squad, that is not a measure either of Marsch's ability as a coach, nor of his standing in the game.

We're still waiting for his equivalent to Stoke 2018, where we see a convincing performance for 90 minutes with a clear indication of how his system will work, and how he will get the best out of the players.

He is unproven at this level, and unproven as a coach who can develop players and get the best out of them. How can that not be a step down? 14 games in and much of the fanbase are unconvinced... when is it all going to come together?
14 games in and certain relegation avoided and the club currently 6th in the PL.

Which planet are you living on, cos it aint this one..
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 20500
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by Cjay »

SaraM wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:50 pm If the team is better because we have finally strengthened the squad, that is not a measure either of Marsch's ability as a coach, nor of his standing in the game.

We're still waiting for his equivalent to Stoke 2018, where we see a convincing performance for 90 minutes with a clear indication of how his system will work, and how he will get the best out of the players.

He is unproven at this level, and unproven as a coach who can develop players and get the best out of them. How can that not be a step down? 14 games in and much of the fanbase are unconvinced... when is it all going to come together?
I don't think that bit is fair tbh.

Unproven at this level long term? Absolutely.

But fundamentally the Red Bull network is about player development, its basically Orta and Radz's wet dream.

And Marsch worked in it for years and helped in the development of many players who went on to play top level European football including

Dominik Szoboszlai whose at RB Leipzig
Enoch Mewpu at Brighton
Hwang Hee Chan whose at Wolves
Patson Daka at Leicester
Karim Adeyemi whose now at Dortmund
Tyler Adams whose here.

And other young talents at Red Bull who are expected to go on to big things like Benjamin Sesko and Luca Sukic.

He even played a small part in the development of Erling Haaland who has only good things to say and still speaks to Marsch till this day.

Jesse and I had a great relationship. We still talk on the phone sometimes. He was an amazing manager for me, and we had some great memories together," said Haaland

"I am lucky to have gotten to know him as a coach, but also as a person. He was very good with me.
As you saw, I was very happy on and off the pitch in Salzburg. Even though it was just six months, it was a good time. He is an amazing guy."

Player development is probably the reason he got our job tbh and is something Marsch does have a very good reputation for.
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
Mountain
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:20 am

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by Mountain »

CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:11 pm 14 games in and certain relegation avoided and the club currently 6th in the PL.

Which planet are you living on, cos it aint this one..
I wouldn't rush to conclusions after 2 games. After all, posters banging on about substitutions and strategy last weekend after just 1 game went very silent in recent days.

But I think we can all agree that if Marsch keeps us in 6th by the end of the season he possibly deserves more praise than Bielsa's 9th in the first season back up...
User avatar
SaraM
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6272
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th August) - Leeds trust the current first team squad to be successful

Post by SaraM »

CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:11 pm 14 games in and certain relegation avoided and the club currently 6th in the PL.

Which planet are you living on, cos it aint this one..
Certain relegation avoided? If you are talking about last season, then nothing was certain. Survival was out of our hands on the last day; we were very fortunate not to go down. If that's the measure we're looking at for success, then I think we need to raise the bar somewhat. 6th after two games means nothing, especially given the opposition we faced.

If being sceptical given that we've yet to witness a convincing 90 minutes of football puts me on another planet, then at least I won't be sharing it with you.
Post Reply