Marcelo Bielsa

[WestgateRun]

The O'Leary team was one of the best teams around in that period, with some talented young players.
The Bielsa team is what it is. A team assembled to get us out of the Championship and back into the top league.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Was going to write something similar DOL inheritated a team that were 5th the season before.
He also inheritated one of the best youth teams in the country all about to break through.
He also was at the Club that were the biggest spenders. We all know that cost 17 years.

MB inherited a team of journeymen struggling in the Championship
MB inherited a youth set up with the U23's playing in the 3rd tier of their age group. Other teams weren't doing that well either.
Not sure about this season but weren't we 19th in last season spending stakes (signings + wage bills).

Its very difficult to fail when you are among the big spenders with the power to buy all your rivals best players (although Olly had a good stab at failure). Sadly the more I think about the DOL time we became one of those clubs (or tried to be) and think he got very lucky that a CL semi is on his CV as it had more to do with what he inherited and the spending power he was wrongly given than his ability as a manager.

MB's success is far greater IMHO he's taken the whole club forward and when he does eventually say goodbye its critical we get the right man. That person will inherit a very good situation.

Don't forget that although the team that O'Leary inherited was capable of of a 5th place PL finish, the style of play under George Graham was pretty dour and boring. O'Leary got the team playing in an exciting, swashbuckling manner which rivals the excitement of a Bielsa team when playing at its best.

Credit also needs to be given to Howard Wilkinson ( seemingly almost forgotten about by many fans ) for setting up the Thorp Arch academy which produced a crop of youngsters which O'Leary was able to let off the leash. After all these years I still find it astonishing that Wilko was able to take a team lying 21st in the old second division and in danger of relegation, and in just 3.5 seasons turn them into the equivalent of PL champions today.He won 2 league titles in 3 years. Consider too the stranglehold which the likes of Liverpool had on the old first division - 11 titles in 19 years.

Also, the club were in two consecutive European semis under O'Leary - not just the CL semi. 3rd place in the PL after all these years is still the best that the club has managed since the PL started. Ultimately it was down to the chairman to decide what the club could or couldn't afford - it was Risdale's idea to tie players such as Seth Johnson down to highly paid long term contracts. I think the spending on wages went up threefold in just a couple of years. It was Risdale's idea to mortgage the club based on future CL revenue which would be the equivalent ( if it were possible ) of someone taking out a mortagage based on nothing more than job applications for a job which they are hoping they will be accepted for.

I don't really blame O'Leary for what happened - he gave us a few terrific seasons which we can still only dream about nowadays. It wasn't his fault that the Bowyer/Woodgate thing happened, and it wasn't his fault that Risdale took leave of his senses. I didn't like the book idea, but other that that if I met David O'Leary tomorrow I would shake his hand and thank him for several exciting seasons which included Leeds making their mark in Europe again with two European semis. Howard Wilkinson I would probably bow to. Mr Bielsa I would say hello to.

[billysboots]

I’m enjoying reading this thread.
My first thought was, could O’Leary get us promoted out of the championship ?
I think he would have struggled.

[Durly]

I’m enjoying reading this thread.
My first thought was, could O’Leary get us promoted out of the championship ?
I think he would have struggled.

I agree.

Also, re: someone earlier mentioning O'Leary starting well but losing it later on.........I don't think his shoving Eddie aside and bringing in Brian Kidd can be underestimated. We were a much more exciting side to watch when Eddie was DOL's right hand man.

[VinnysTattoo]

I agree.

Also, re: someone earlier mentioning O'Leary starting well but losing it later on.........I don't think his shoving Eddie aside and bringing in Brian Kidd can be underestimated. We were a much more exciting side to watch when Eddie was DOL's right hand man.

I think this is when the decline had it’s roots. Under Kidd we changed our style, especially in the Premiership. In addition DOL spent less and less time on the training pitch.

[Cjay]

At that particular time or later in their careers... Just asking

Erm with the exception of Batty and Wilcox i think.

The rest were at Leeds playing internationally under O'Leary, Wilcox and Batty were earlier.

[YorkshireSquare]

Eg, We paid 18mill for Ferdinand following a world cup performance, Scum played 80mill fot their England CB both records for a defender.

If Harry Maguire is worth £80 million then god knows what a peak Rio Ferdinand would be worth these days!

[Cjay]

Trouble is Football inflation far excedes inflation in that period.
Players are about 4 to 5 times more expensive today (400 to 500%}
Hence a £10mill player in 1998 would be just under £50mill in today's market.

Eg, We paid 18mill for Ferdinand following a world cup performance, Scum played 80mill fot their England CB both records for a defender.

Very true mate.

But at the same time should recognise the amount of academy lads in that O'Leary team.

The bargains like Radebe, Viduka, Bakke, it wasnt all about lots of cash.

Even Dacourt at the time was imo a bargain.

Peak Rio made Maguire look like Cooper, Radebe and Woodgate fully fit were better than Maguire.

[Cjay]

Here are some dilemmas.

In top form and fully fit would Kalvin Phillips get in ahead of Dacourt and Batty?

Would Bamford displace any of Smith, Viduka and Keane?

Would Raph displace Kewell? I am talking about pre injury Kewell so his best and last prime season pre injuries when he was only 21-22 and getting 17 goals and 20 assists in all competitions.

[Finnatic]

Don't forget that although the team that O'Leary inherited was capable of of a 5th place PL finish, the style of play under George Graham was pretty dour and boring. O'Leary got the team playing in an exciting, swashbuckling manner which rivals the excitement of a Bielsa team when playing at its best.

Credit also needs to be given to Howard Wilkinson ( seemingly almost forgotten about by many fans ) for setting up the Thorp Arch academy which produced a crop of youngsters which O'Leary was able to let off the leash. After all these years I still find it astonishing that Wilko was able to take a team lying 21st in the old second division and in danger of relegation, and in just 3.5 seasons turn them into the equivalent of PL champions today.He won 2 league titles in 3 years. Consider too the stranglehold which the likes of Liverpool had on the old first division - 11 titles in 19 years.

Also, the club were in two consecutive European semis under O'Leary - not just the CL semi. 3rd place in the PL after all these years is still the best that the club has managed since the PL started. Ultimately it was down to the chairman to decide what the club could or couldn't afford - it was Risdale's idea to tie players such as Seth Johnson down to highly paid long term contracts. I think the spending on wages went up threefold in just a couple of years. It was Risdale's idea to mortgage the club based on future CL revenue which would be the equivalent ( if it were possible ) of someone taking out a mortagage based on nothing more than job applications for a job which they are hoping to start in the near future.

I don't really blame O'Leary for what happened - he gave us a few terrific seasons which we can still only dream about nowadays. It wasn't his fault that the Bowyer/Woodgate thing happened, and it wasn't his fault that Risdale took leave of his senses. I didn't like the book idea, but other that that if I met David O'Leary tomorrow I would shake his hand and thank him for several exciting seasons which included Leeds making their mark in Europe again with two European semis. Howard Wilkinson I would probably bow to.

Pretty much my thoughts.
Don’t forget, either side of third place we finished fourth which now gets you a CL place.
The second time we finished fourth were very unlucky as we scored a perfectly good last kick winner v Scum only for the offside flag when Wes Brown (I think) kept us onside.
As soon as they took the free-kick, the ref blew for full time. Had the goal stood we’d have finished third as Scum wouldn’t have had time to equalise.

[The Subhuman]

Here are some dilemmas.

In top form and fully fit would Kalvin Phillips get in ahead of Dacourt and Batty? YES

Would Bamford displace any of Smith, Viduka and Keane? - N

Would Raph displace Kewell? I am talking about pre injury Kewell so his best and last prime season pre injuries when he was only 21-22 and getting 17 goals and 20 assists in all competitions.

Yes

No

Kewell was left sided Raph right, they could play in the same team

Meslier ties with Martyn
Ayling, very tight v Kelly but Ayling has more upside
Dallas beats out Harte who was a poor and slow left back
Ferdinand - just over Llorente, I was never a Ferdinand fan
Radebe - Best Leeds CB since the Don's days
Phillips -
Dacourt -
Raphinha
Kewell
Hernandez
Viduka

Manager - Marcelo, no contest

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Pretty much my thoughts.
Don’t forget, either side of third place we finished fourth which now gets you a CL place.
The second time we finished fourth were very unlucky as we scored a perfectly good last kick winner v Scum only for the offside flag when Wes Brown (I think) kept us onside.
As soon as they took the free-kick, the ref blew for full time. Had the goal stood we’d have finished third as Scum wouldn’t have had time to equalise.

Good points Finn.

DOL never finished outside the top 5.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Very true mate.

But at the same time should recognise the amount of academy lads in that O'Leary team.

The bargains like Radebe, Viduka, Bakke, it wasnt all about lots of cash.

Even Dacourt at the time was imo a bargain.

Peak Rio made Maguire look like Cooper, Radebe and Woodgate fully fit were better than Maguire.

And don't forget that Howard Wilkinson was responsible for bringing in Bowyer and Martyn - they were both bargains at the time. I seem to remember that Bowyer scored a brace on his debut in 1996.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

I think comparisons between MB and DOL are difficult to make, as they started out with the club in such different situations. The fact that DOL inherited a team who were established in the PL was not his fault, however he quickly transformed the style of play into one which was more free flowing and attack minded. He let the academy youngsters off their leashes which Graham seemed reluctant to do.

IMO a comparison between MB and Wilko when they were appointed as managers would be more appropriate ;

- With MB the club had just finished 13th in the second tier, 19 points clear of relegation.
- With Wilko in October 1988 the club was 21st in the league on 6 points, and just ahead on goal difference with Birmingham who were third from bottom.
- Both came to the club after it had spent many years in the second tier - 8 years for Wilko and 13 years for Bielsa.
- Both inherited a team short on confidence and motivation, with some very average players.
- On being appointed MB had the summer to work with the players, whereas with Wilko the season was already a couple of months old.
- Wilko won the second division to gain promotion in his first full season in charge whereas with MD it took two seasons.
- Wilko's Leeds finished 4th in the first season back in the top tier. MB's Leeds finished 9th in the PL in the first season back. .
- Wilko steered the club to the first division title in its second season back in the top tier, putting 6 past Wednesday, 5 past Wimbledon and 4 past Southampton, the Blades, Notts County and Villa. They scored 74 goals in 42 game - 1.76 goals scored per game. They conceded 37 goals - an average of 0.88 goals per game. To date MB's team in its second season back in the top tier after 14 games is in 16th, with an average of 0.93 goals per game scored and 1.42 goals conceded.

[leedsalex]

Not much love for my childhood team

I will go against the grain then, i adored that O'Leary team.

For someone to young to remember Revie or Wilko the O'Leary years are as good as it got.

Great times.

Agree and i find it strange that a lot of you think that Bielsa's team is more loveable. I adored the O'Leary team too. Who can forget those great European times that night in Milan and what happened after the game.Fans loved that team. How many of our current team could play in that O'Leary team.Only a few i think.

[Leeds1000]

Both did fantastic jobs in their moments in time. Both played fearless attacking sexy football that we all love to watch. One came in after gorgeous George and the other after Hecky.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Both did fantastic jobs in their moments in time. Both played fearless attacking sexy football that we all love to watch. One came in after gorgeous George and the other after Hecky.

My greatest Leeds managers ;

1) Don Revie
2) Howard Wilkinson
3) David O'Leary
4th = Marcelo Bielsa and Jimmy Armfield

Jimmy Armfield's comments regarding the 1975 European Cup final ;

"We were a better side than Bayern Munich. We weren't beaten by a better side. We were beaten by a bad referee. I've never changed my mind. Had there not been trouble on the terraces I would have absolutely castigated that referee publicly. It's the worst display of refereeing I've ever seen. If I told you what I really felt, I'd be had up for libel."

[Chilli D]

Yes

No

Kewell was left sided Raph right, they could play in the same team

Meslier ties with Martyn
Ayling, very tight v Kelly but Ayling has more upside
Dallas beats out Harte who was a poor and slow left back
Ferdinand - just over Llorente, I was never a Ferdinand fan
Radebe - Best Leeds CB since the Don's days
Phillips -
Dacourt -
Raphinha
Kewell
Hernandez
Viduka

Manager - Marcelo, no contest

What a team that would be although I'd argue Woodgate over The Chief....but only just

[Mick Jones shoulder]

O'leary's side by a country mile.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

My greatest Leeds managers ;

1) Don Revie
2) Howard Wilkinson
3) David O'Leary
4th = Marcelo Bielsa and Jimmy Armfield

Jimmy Armfield's comments regarding the 1975 European Cup final ;

"We were a better side than Bayern Munich. We weren't beaten by a better side. We were beaten by a bad referee. I've never changed my mind. Had there not been trouble on the terraces I would have absolutely castigated that referee publicly. It's the worst display of refereeing I've ever seen. If I told you what I really felt, I'd be had up for libel."

So a team which reached 2 European semis and which was consistently in the top 5 of the PL versus one which has so far managed a 9th in the PL - O'Leary's side easily. And it would probably be a 4 or 5 nil win.