Marcelo Bielsa

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mentalcase
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

Post by mentalcase »

faaip wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:13 pm Getting close to top 2 for me ... The Don at the top of course
:tup: :tup:
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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liggy wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:41 am Watching the west ham game yesterday
I tried to copy Marcelo by trying to stay on my honkers like him.
Has anyone tried it. ..its nie on impossible.
I can only do it for the length of time it takes to get the breakfast cereal out of the cupboard.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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weasel wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:49 am Interesting to see the contrast between two managers today. Moyes blaming the premeir league schedule for the loss whilst Bielsa humble as always and continually not maoning about the wretched injury list or even having to re-shuffle a depleted side today with the 2 substitutions in the first half.
WOuldn't swap him for any other manager in the world.
Our magnificent coach never complains or blames someone else.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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whiteswan wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 pm I've thought that myself liggy, but to be honest I would not be able to get back up! Seriously.
Cue hector and a booze related comment ;)
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Re: Another Bielsa record...most teenage debutants....

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Cjay wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:15 pm Very true yes he deserves credit for introducing them at all.

And if some of them go on to become regulars as we hope then in 5,10 years we will all look back and be grateful to Marcelo Bielsa for giving them a chance.

But i dont think you can say it was a conscious decision on Bielsa's part to do that this season in the same way Ferguson did 30 years ago or O'Leary did for us,. Circumstance forced his hand and he is clearly very hesitant to use them.

He does deserve some credit for at least giving a chance to so many in the end but because it was forced and he will likely revert to his first choice 18 when he can then it is frustrating as well.

Dont you find it hard to believe that if by some miracle Bamford, Roberts, Rodrigo and Forshaw and Klich all got fully fit over night then chances are we wouldn't see Gelhardt and Bate again this season?
I think the circumstances are easier judged with hindsight. For all Ferguson introduced the youngsters hignsight would suggest that he had some cracking players - will ours be anywhere near that level? Same for O'Leary he had some excellent young players. I hope ours are as good as some of those players but the likelihood statistically is that most youngsters fall by the wayside or drop down the divisions rapidly.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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Finnatic wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:26 pm Cue hector and a booze related comment ;)
Believe me.... I was sooooooo tempted.... :) :)
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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1964white wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:55 pm Today was Marcelo Bielsa's 76th win in his 150th league game in charge of Leeds, the most wins by any manager in their first 150 league games in charge of in the club's history.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Can't knock that considering what i thought was a poor side when he took over and its not changed much. :) We now hold the PL record for most teenagers used in the prem i think i heard them say that on SPN the other day. You will never win anything with the kids. Beating west ham will do for me.

He da man. :ok:
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Re: Another Bielsa record...most teenage debutants....

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Cjay wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:15 pm But i dont think you can say it was a conscious decision on Bielsa's part to do that this season in the same way Ferguson did 30 years ago or O'Leary did for us,.
One thing that marked the Ferguson team is just how slowly he introduced youngsters, and how little game time they got for years. Beckham got 4 games in 3 seasons, Gary Neville 1 game in 2 seasons, Butt 2 in 2, Giggs played 2 games in his first season etc. They boded their time between 1992 and 1995, few of them got anything like a run of games until 1995/96.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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hector wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:40 pm Believe me.... I was sooooooo tempted.... :) :)
I bet you were.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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Finnatic wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:26 pm Cue hector and a booze related comment ;)
Behave you!.....he doesn't need any encouragement.....

:lol:
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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hector wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:40 pm Believe me.... I was sooooooo tempted.... :) :)
Weren't quick enough more like :)
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Re: Another Bielsa record...most teenage debutants....

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Our own class of '92' when we beat them in youth cup final, not many of our team made it, Noel Whelan, then maybe Sharp and Tinkler, but they only laked for first team less than 20 times apiece.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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whiteswan wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:56 pm Weren't quick enough more like :)
No Duckie.... you make it too easy, so I let you off this time :) :)
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Re: Another Bielsa record...most teenage debutants....

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While injuries have allowed this record to happen, credit where due. Bielsa’s insistence on a core 20 man squad, and thus paving a pathway for youngsters, and the Scouting Team’s work in acquiring top drawer U23 talent is excellent work.
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Re: Another Bielsa record...most teenage debutants....

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CanuckMightyWhite wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:55 pm While injuries have allowed this record to happen, credit where due. Bielsa’s insistence on a core 20 man squad, and thus paving a pathway for youngsters, and the Scouting Team’s work in acquiring top drawer U23 talent is excellent work.
I think it's actually impossible for him to win over some fans.

He gets criticised for not bringing in big name players, but also not giving youngsters a go, despite breaking records for giving youngsters a go and despite the obvious contradiction in those aims. And if he gives them a go, he gets criticised for only doing so because of injuries, as if his motives should be purer. And he gets criticised for not giving them extended runs, and favouring the few experienced players still not injured as the club tries to get enough points to avoid relegation...a time when old heads and not risking youngsters seems like plain common sense.

He brought us up, he brought us to 9th. I just think blooding a whole new generation while keeping us comfortably clear of relegation in an injury ravaged season should be seen as more evidence of his genius rather than the collapse that some suggest.
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Re: Another Bielsa record...most teenage debutants....

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Mountain wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:52 pm I think it's actually impossible for him to win over some fans.

He gets criticised for not bringing in big name players, but also not giving youngsters a go, despite breaking records for giving youngsters a go and despite the obvious contradiction in those aims. And if he gives them a go, he gets criticised for only doing so because of injuries, as if his motives should be purer. And he gets criticised for not giving them extended runs, and favouring the few experienced players still not injured as the club tries to get enough points to avoid relegation...a time when old heads and not risking youngsters seems like plain common sense.

He brought us up, he brought us to 9th. I just think blooding a whole new generation while keeping us comfortably clear of relegation in an injury ravaged season should be seen as more evidence of his genius rather than the collapse that some suggest.
Not sure if I didn’t articulate my point correctly, but what you’ve said is exactly what I am trying to say, albeit you did it much more eloquently. So we are in agreement.
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Re: Another Bielsa record...most teenage debutants....

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CanuckMightyWhite wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:23 pm Not sure if I didn’t articulate my point correctly, but what you’ve said is exactly what I am trying to say, albeit you did it much more eloquently. So we are in agreement.
Sorry, I should have said at the start, I agree with you 100%. You made your point perfectly, I was quoting it in terms of supporting it rather than challenging it.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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For me, it's another incredible season. In the face of a shocking injury list, with a limited budget, he may keep us up while blooding a record number of teenagers.

I kinda think, is he still that far behind Wilkinson? Sure, Wilko won a title but that's not realistic now. And he got the subsequent transition wrong, as players like Speed, Batty, McAllister and Dorigo left and Brolin, Palmer, Sharpe and Pemberton were drafted in.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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Mountain wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:23 pm For me, it's another incredible season. In the face of a shocking injury list, with a limited budget, he may keep us up while blooding a record number of teenagers.

I kinda think, is he still that far behind Wilkinson? Sure, Wilko won a title but that's not realistic now. And he got the subsequent transition wrong, as players like Speed, Batty, McAllister and Dorigo left and Brolin, Palmer, Sharpe and Pemberton were drafted in.
I think that's a bit harsh on Wilko as Wilko didn't want to sell these and with the money he wa given he was limited to being able to buy journeymen that would do a job and keep us in the division til is ten year plan came to fruition. Yes sometimes when he was given decent money he got it wrong with some of the signings you mentioned. Batty sold by the board to pay for the East Stand, Speed wanted to leave to go to his boyhood team, Everton and I still remember McAllister deserting us when club captain to go to Coventry under Strachan, I bet Wilko felt really betrayed by that. Lukcily it meant that he then had the money to sign Nigel Martyn who was a cracking keeper for us.
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Re: Marcelo Bielsa

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weasel wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:39 am I think that's a bit harsh on Wilko as Wilko didn't want to sell these and with the money he wa given he was limited to being able to buy journeymen that would do a job and keep us in the division til is ten year plan came to fruition. Yes sometimes when he was given decent money he got it wrong with some of the signings you mentioned. Batty sold by the board to pay for the East Stand, Speed wanted to leave to go to his boyhood team, Everton and I still remember McAllister deserting us when club captain to go to Coventry under Strachan, I bet Wilko felt really betrayed by that. Lukcily it meant that he then had the money to sign Nigel Martyn who was a cracking keeper for us.
I'm always amazed at how little credit Wilko gets from Leeds fans, and in fact it's one of the reasons why I tend to not be too gushing about Marcelo Bielsa. I just smile now when I hear people saying that Bielsa is running Wilko close as the 2nd greatest ever Leeds manager. Maybe it's because Wilko was born in Sheffield and managed Wednesday that he is held in so little regard ? Or maybe because the recruitment after winning the title didn't quite match the same standard prior to winning it. Prior to winning the 1st division he never put a foot wrong with his recruitment, so he created sky high expectations after just 3.5 seasons at the club.

When Wilko took over in October 1988 the club was 23rd in the second division, and ahead only on goal difference from a relegation place. He had no summer to impose his methods on the side or to bring new players in. Bielsa took over in the summer with the club having finished 19 points above relegation.

I've just looked at the players in the 1st team when Wilko took over, and it included John Stiles, David Rennie, Micky Adams, Vince Hilaire, Noel Blake and Bobby Davison. Only David Batty from the 1st team in October 1988 was part of the team that won the title in 92/3. That title winning side had Batty and Speed from the academy and all the rest were bought by Wilko over 2.5 seasons.

Wilko didn't have a DOF back then, so he chose the transfer targets. So to win the 1st division title he brought in Strachan, McAllister, Chapman, Wallace, Dorigo, Fairclough, Lukic, Hodge and Cantona. So unlike today's recruitment, it was hit, hit and hit rather than hit and miss.

To go from 23rd in the second tier to winning it the next season, to then after 9 years away from the top tier come 4th in the first season back, and then to go on an win the top tier the year after I think is still one of the most amazing feats in the club's history. It was two titles in three years - so 2nd division champions, 4th in the first division, 1st division champions, 17th in the 1st division, 5th in the first division and 5th in the first division. Next season he was sacked in Sept.

I think his problem was that he achieved too much too quickly which created unrealistic expectations among the fanbase. I don't know exactly what went on with the Cantona saga - however I remember reading in a newspaper report at the time after Cantona made his first appearance for us as a sub, him being criticised for being sluggish and poor. So Wilko deserves great credit for having the vision to bring him to the club in the first place.

And then there were some memorable European performances - especially the wins against Stuttgart and Monaco. Plus one League Cup semi and one League Cup final appearance.

And be signed Yeboah - who is now regarded as a club legend with the most spectacular goals ever scored by a Leeds player other than Peter Lorimer. People tend to forget too that he brought in Bowyer, Martyn and Radebe, so together with the academy players he virtually created the team for O'Leary to flourish with in the next golden era from 1998 to 2002.

And of course Wilko set up the academy which both O'Leary and Bielsa have benefited from during their tenures.

So Marcelo Bielsa and Wliko neck and neck in terms of being the second greatest ever Leeds manager ? No way !
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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