The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 26th January) Winter of discontent for the U23's

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Wednesday 26th January, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Winter of discontent for the U23's

Joe Gelhardt was spotted in the stands supporting his teammates on Monday Evening, as they were ripped apart by Blackburn Rovers. Even with Leo Hjelde, Lewis Bate, Liam McCarron and Stuart McKinstry all starting for the U23's, the Riversiders netted four times, without response. Unfortunately for the Whites, it was decided that as Gelhardt played a ten-minute cameo against Newcastle on Saturday, that he would be rested for the relegation six pointer. The devastating loss moves Blackburn within a point of Leeds who are third from bottom.

Their form this season raises questions from both Mark Jackson and Marcelo Bielsa. Whilst many will argue that including some of the youngsters in first team affairs has weakened the U23 squad, there seems to be discontent in the youth camp. It has been well documented that Cody Drameh joined Cardiff on loan against Bielsa's wish, and now more players including Crysencio Summerville could be departing. The 20 year old is frustrated at the amount of first team opportunities and (apparently) is close to signing a loan to buy deal with German outfit Hamburg.

The Dutch winger missed the 4-0 hammering on Monday evening, though his absence has not been explained. If he was injured, surely we would have heard about it?





JKA diagnosed with GBS

Former Whites striker Jean-Kevin Augustin has been diagnosed with Guillain-Barré Syndrome, a very rare and serious condition where your body's immune system attacks the nerves. It is not known how long the former French U21 has had the condition, but it could go a long way to describe his performances on the pitch. The side effects include lack of balance and co-ordination, muscle weakness and diarrhea. These issues beautifully sum up his performances for Leeds. The report also indicates Augustin has suffered from long Covid and depression. He is currently contracted to Nantes second team, who play in the fourth tier of French football.

Leeds are appealing the £18m payment they promised RB Leipzig (for Augustin) on technical grounds, and will appear at the Arbitration for Sport on the 15th March.





YEP link Leeds to Spanish ace

The Yorkshire Evening Post are reporting that Leeds are interested in former Real Madrid striker Raul de Tomas. The 27yo has been in fine form for Espanyol, which led to winning two International caps with Spain last year. In 71 appearances, Tomas has netted 38 times, attracting the likes of West Ham and Arsenal.

He came through the ranks at Real Madrid, where he spent fifteen years, before joining Benfica in 2019 for €20m. Things didn't work out there, and Tomas joined Espanyol six months later for the same fee. Whilst it's encouraging to hear, I very much doubt Leeds will want to dig deep into their coffers, especially as Bielsa is happy with the way things are!

[weasel]

Although it is disappointing to see the U23 results it isn't always about results when looking at the U23s. If we lose every match but produce some stars then that is better than winning every match and producing no one of note. The famous example being the Leeds FA Youth Cup winning side that in the main disappeared into obscurity whereas the beaten finalists, Man U, had several players that played at the top level. Our U23s would be stronger with a settled side but that hasn't happened this season. The hope would be that we don't see them relegated as it is better though that they are playing the best U23 sides.

It will certainly be interesting to see whether the JKA illness has any baring on the court case. If RB knew of the condition before trying to sell him to us it could certainly make things interesting although from a legal point of view I don't know whether they would have had to tell us. The only thing legally binding as far as I know would be if there is a date on the deal we did whereby we had to have been promoted to trigger the sale clause (i.e. 30th June rather than a loosely worded 'end of season'). If the deal had the date listed then Leeds shouldn't have to pay as we say that Fifa/Uefa declared that dates on contracts were legally binding when they allowed players to leave clubs or decide not to play after that date passed even though the season was still to be concluded (Charlton for example had their star striker refusing to play against us as his contract date had passed and he didn't want to risk injury - whereas Gaetano Berardi played for us despite his contract having expired and as we all saw got injured and legally the club had no obligation to give him a new contract or pay for his medical costs etc but did).

[HarryofOz]

Bielsa is losing the dressing room now is he?

[SG90]

I think we've got it all wrong with the u23s. For example, Jack Jenkins will be 20 in March, yet he's played just 45 mins of football, against Crawley in the cup. It's obvious he won't make it at Leeds, and it looks like a repeat of the Robbie Gotts situation. Yet Alfie McCalmont, who has a season of League 2 and a season of League 1 football behind him, apparently isn't good enough and will be sold.

Substitute for Greenwood and Bogusz and it's exactly the same.

[The Subhuman]

The 23's results this season have bothered me not one jot, still a very good chance we stay up especially if we get players back but you can't have it both ways. We either integrate kids into the first team squad or we don't. The fact we see so many missing from the 23's on match days says more about Bielsa wanting to make sure he has the first team options rather than play for mid table safety in the reserves

Good luck to JKA, never bought this lazy, unfocused, unfit B/S most loved to quote using perfect hindsight...

[mentalcase]

I don't think he's losing the dressing room, but, there are some unsettled players in the camp, can you blame some of the U23s for being a little disgruntled, especially when roberts for one, has been given numerous chances and failed on every one of them, I would be well pissed off if we lost 5/6 of the young ones for the said reason.
Having said that, I reckon the main reason the U23s are stuttering is because a lot of them warm the first team bench and need to draw from the U 18 pool, all this is because we have a small original squad and the endless list of injuries.
We cannot simply let the kids off the leash en-masse, it won't work, experience shows and its a case of drip feeding them, albeit, a couple need to have more than mere 15 minute cameos.
Nobody knows whats going on behind the scenes, but, I would imagine, all the young un's will have been spoken to in a professional manner regarding their futures.
There is obviously a long term strategy at the club, not many teams can put over half the team in different positions like we can, it don't look good when we have talented youth in those specialised positions champing at the bit, but, those champing at the bit can only play in one position.....at the moment that is.
Agents can be arses, parents can be pushy, the best place for them right now imho is , at ER.
Sit tight and see the light.

[SG90]

We had a chance to ease a few youngsters in last season, so that there was no pressure and they could pick up valuable game time, but Bielsa refused to.

[SG90]

I think the club and Bielsa see playing for the u23s as an equivalent to Barcelona B or something. It isnt. It's a place to teenagers to develop their tutelage and the best ones are either loaned out or in the first team. If you're still playing u23s in your 20s, you clearly won't make it. Our idea is to sign young players who have first team experience and dump them in the u23s, like it'll improve them. But there's only so long they'll wait for a first team chance that won't come.

[mentalcase]

Whats happened to Fernandez, please don't tell me he's injured ??

[BGwhite]

So Joe sits in the stands at the 23's game and is not doing much else for the first team meanwhile losing match fitness and sharpness, not good at all. The other talented lads may wait to see what happens with Bielsa before deciding their future but who can blame them if they go elsewhere for first team experience.

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

[weasel]

I wonder if the reason we lost 4-0 to Blackburn in the U23s was due to all the players being distracted as they were all wondering why they aren't playing for the first team.

[Ellandback1]

Whats happened to Fernandez, please don't tell me he's injured ??

He come on as a second half substitute with 10 minutes left.

[Chilli D]

If the Leeds lawyers have got anything about them they will surely claim that JKA had GBS when he came to us therefore making him unfit to play PL football.
However, I don't believe he did as all the medical tests players go through these days would likely have picked it up.

[William]

We had a chance to ease a few youngsters in last season, so that there was no pressure and they could pick up valuable game time, but Bielsa refused to.

Who asked him to?

If I recall at the time the fans ( and club ) were happy to win matches rise up the table and profit from the extra prize money and Tv appearances. This helped increase the revenue streams

Re any U23s upset.

They are suffering just like the first team to injuries and an unsettled line-up.

If Summerville is the dissenter in the dressing room then it best if he goes, the same as any others who start questioning the bosses methods. The sense of entitlement some of these young players show is baffling.

Re JKA.

Panic buy but we were calling for options beyond Bamford. Adams wasn't interested and we didn't have the cash to entice anyone else to sign. Hence the very poor deal we agreed to. Massive wages and a large transfer fee at the end of it. At the time some of us triumphed that we had snatched this player from under the noses of big Prem clubs. Covid 19 was a variable no-one could foretell and everyone tried to cope with it the best they could. Sadly he was then isolated outside the group, isolated from his home and culture and suffered badly as a result. I feel sorry for him and it illustrates the fine margins in these transfers, especially bringing in oversees players whose culture may be different.

[Cjay]

I don't think all is well at Leeds United.

Something has been off since pre season, people keep trying to excuse our performances by using the injuries but these performances were the same.in pre season to when we had no injuries.

I don't think injuries are the key factor as you could see this season coming a mile off in the summer (as you can read if you read our pre season threads).

Don't ask me what is because I don't know, but something hasn't been right for a long time.

Additionally I am absolutely convinced we have problems at board level.

Radz reaction to that article about the 49ers and a takeover basically confirmed it. I have always been against the Venture capitalists (you may have noticed) I think they took advantage of an under prepared and under funded Radz when he was desperate to fund a venture he had vastly underestimated the cost of and the two parties have been at loggerheads since day 1.

Case in point, Radz having to strongly hint that he was in talks with QSI about an investment to try and squeeze more cash and support out of the 49ers. In hindsight that is exactly what he was doing, as well as subtly asking them in the media for more funding.

Someone on the other forum (which some of of probably read already) a person who is seemingly regarded as a reliable source basically confirmed this whole theory last night which is why I am bringing it up now.

Basically Radz and the 49ers are not on good terms.

He said that the 49ers venture capital fund had offered Radz a significant amount of cash to fund this January transfer window,sounds very generous?

Except they of course wanted a share increase which given they are only 7% of a majority would imply they wanted to become majority owners this January unless they were going to give Radz £10s of million for a few % which would be vastly overvalued, unlikely.

As someone else pointed out if they wanted to invest money to fund January they didnt need more shares they are able to invest capital (as plenty of owners do) at any time. So whilst it just looks like part owners wanting to help it is in reality entirely self motivated and is only about the 49ers interests and not about the club.

And also effectively it wouldn't be the 49ers funding January it would be Radz because if they bought more of his shares that is Radz asset they have got and his cash personally not the club so once again the 49ers aren't actually investing a penny into LUFC (see a pattern here).

Radz turned this down.

If you want another theory then the 49ers leaked the Brenden Aaronson offer, came from the American end remember.

Public knowledge put pressure on Radz to find the funding for the deal in theory just in case the Austrian club do accept.

So that's my view anyway

[WhiteRose]

I dont really get this opinion that the U23 players feel entitled to play in the first team, they come to Leeds knowing that in premier league football you need to bide your time as a youngster as opportunities can be limited. look at most PL clubs, very few of them use youth players to any great degree. We have set a record of 8 debuts for teenagers this season, and the likes of Struijk and Gerhardt are now very much a part of the matchday squad so there is at least evidence of a route to the first team even if it has been the result of injuries. if there are frustrations then we need to use the loan market more to avoid these frustrations and to build up player valuations. Give Greenwood for example a season in the championship and he gets used to playing in front of fairly large crowds and learns to deal with the pressure involved, does well and he either comes back and goes in to first team contention or can be sold on.

[Ellandback1]

If the Leeds lawyers have got anything about them they will surely claim that JKA had GBS when he came to us therefore making him unfit to play PL football.
However, I don't believe he did as all the medical tests players go through these days would likely have picked it up.

Augustin passed a medical?

[Carrick Dave]

I don't think all is well at Leeds United.

Something has been off since pre season, people keep trying to excuse our performances by using the injuries but these performances were the same.in pre season to when we had no injuries.

I don't think injuries are the key factor as you could see this season coming a mile off in the summer (as you can read if you read our pre season threads).

Don't ask me what is because I don't know, but something hasn't been right for a long time.

Additionally I am absolutely convinced we have problems at board level.

Radz reaction to that article about the 49ers and a takeover basically confirmed it. I have always been against the Venture capitalists (you may have noticed) I think they took advantage of an under prepared and under funded Radz when he was desperate to fund a venture he had vastly underestimated the cost of and the two parties have been at loggerheads since day 1.

Case in point, Radz having to strongly hint that he was in talks with QSI about an investment to try and squeeze more cash and support out of the 49ers. In hindsight that is exactly what he was doing, as well as subtly asking them in the media for more funding.

Someone on the other forum (which some of of probably read already) a person who is seemingly regarded as a reliable source basically confirmed this whole theory last night which is why I am bringing it up now.

Basically Radz and the 49ers are not on good terms.

He said that the 49ers venture capital fund had offered Radz a significant amount of cash to fund this January transfer window,sounds very generous?

Except they of course wanted a share increase which given they are only 7% of a majority would imply they wanted to become majority owners this January unless they were going to give Radz £10s of million for a few % which would be vastly overvalued, unlikely.

As someone else pointed out if they wanted to invest money to fund January they didnt need more shares they are able to invest capital (as plenty of owners do) at any time. So whilst it just looks like part owners wanting to help it is in reality entirely self motivated and is only about the 49ers interests and not about the club.

And also effectively it wouldn't be the 49ers funding January it would be Radz because if they bought more of his shares that is Radz asset they have got and his cash personally not the club so once again the 49ers aren't actually investing a penny into LUFC (see a pattern here).

Radz turned this down.

If you want another theory then the 49ers leaked the Brenden Aaronson offer, came from the American end remember.

Public knowledge put pressure on Radz to find the funding for the deal in theory just in case the Austrian club do accept.

So that's my view anyway

Interesting post Cjay, and food for thought. The relationship between Radz & the 49ers has always seemed too publicly cordial to me, given that it's all about the money and who does best out of it in the long term.

On another note, you know how Toon paid £25m to secure Wood, though he might be surplus to requirements come the summer. I was wondering if Tom Lawrence might do a job for us for a few months, and he's almost out of contract:

"Derby County’s precarious off-field position has put Tom Lawrence’s future at Pride Park in serious doubt.

The Rams’ problems have been well-documented, with Lawrence potentially about to deal the playing side of things a blow.

The Daily Mail report how AFC Bournemouth and QPR – two of the Championship’s automatic promotion hopefuls – are keen on offering the forward a route out of Derby, with his contract approaching its final months."

He mightn't cost much, he might jump at a crack at the PL and there would be plenty of takers for him in the summer if we wanted to move him on.

[Carrick Dave]

Change to Covid Postponement rules:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60135824

Premier League clubs will have to prove they have at least four Covid-19 cases to get matches called off under new guidance announced on Wednesday.

A total of 22 top-flight games were postponed in December and January because of the pandemic.

The rules will be introduced before the next league fixture on 5 February.

[Cjay]

Interesting post Cjay, and food for thought. The relationship between Radz & the 49ers has always seemed too publicly cordial to me, given that it's all about the money and who does best out of it in the long term.

On another note, you know how Toon paid £25m to secure Wood, though he might be surplus to requirements come the summer. I was wondering if Tom Lawrence might do a job for us for a few months, and he's almost out of contract:

"Derby County’s precarious off-field position has put Tom Lawrence’s future at Pride Park in serious doubt.

The Rams’ problems have been well-documented, with Lawrence potentially about to deal the playing side of things a blow.

The Daily Mail report how AFC Bournemouth and QPR – two of the Championship’s automatic promotion hopefuls – are keen on offering the forward a route out of Derby, with his contract approaching its final months."

He mightn't cost much, he might jump at a crack at the PL and there would be plenty of takers for him in the summer if we wanted to move him on.

Derby have point blank refused to sell anyone this January I believe (all the more baffling given their situation).

Always been decent Lawrence but is he even lower level Premier league standard? Not to sure.

He is match fit footballer I suppose and we have precious few of those so their is that.