No one is sending us down

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weasel
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No one is sending us down

Post by weasel »

Or should that be No. One is sending us down. At present Burnley have Pope playing well in their goal and likewise Pickford at Everton whereas we have Messlier and all I hear is the great potential stuff but I reckon he has cost us several goals this season and that is without the times where it goes in and you think should he have done a bit better there. Yes he is young and it is an unforgiving position but I feel he is a big weak link for us, I doubt he would get into any other premier league starting XI and probably wouldn't even make the bench at quite a few clubs.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by William »

Maybe weasel but tbf to him all he sees is chaos in front of him.

Every game.


The game is run on stats these days and how many times these last two seasons he has been left completely exposed? What does that do to his mindset?

I was a keeper ( no surprise there) but with so much time on your hands in game it is tough keeping the mental side in its place.

In his defense today if anyone knew that he has left footed it was Nketiah which is why he gambled and pressed him in such aclever way knowing that Meslier needed to switch to his left.

Our problem isnt spiderboy it is the nightmare enfolding ahead of him week in week out.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by whiteswan »

William wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 10:41 pm Maybe weasel but tbf to him all he sees is chaos in front of him.

Every game.


The game is run on stats these days and how many times these last two seasons he has been left completely exposed? What does that do to his mindset?

I was a keeper ( no surprise there) but with so much time on your hands in game it is tough keeping the mental side in its place.

In his defense today if anyone knew that he has left footed it was Nketiah which is why he gambled and pressed him in such aclever way knowing that Meslier needed to switch to his left.

Our problem isnt spiderboy it is the nightmare enfolding ahead of him week in week out.
That's a very fair assesment William
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Johnboy1965
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Johnboy1965 »

Unfair to blame our shortcomings on a 22 year old when our so called big money senior players have been letting us down of late.
Rodrigo
James
Firpo
and more recently Raph have all failed to step up when it matters.
How many goals have they cost us because they can't hit a cows arse with a banjo?
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weasel
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by weasel »

Johnboy1965 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:01 am Unfair to blame our shortcomings on a 22 year old when our so called big money senior players have been letting us down of late.
That's sort of the point though - everyone excuses him because he is young, or certainly young for a keeper. Whilst there are a lot of poor performances going on around him I do feel that if for example we had, Pope, Schmeichel, Pickford, Martinez, Leno, Henderson, Arrizabalaga (note the last 3 are not even first choice for their clubs) etc instead we would almost certainly have a few more points and that would likely have meant we were safe. It's sort of the same as saying if Bamford was fit all season we'd have almost certainly scored another 10 goals or so and again that would likely have been enough to see us safe - the difference being Bamford hasn't played whereas Messlier has.

At some point with any keeper you have to evaluate whether he is justifying his place in the team. Yes at our club he is because he is better than our other options but that is more down to our other options not being great than Messlier being great.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by CarelessAir »

You're right there pal, this has all been self inflicted.
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Kennyb41
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Kennyb41 »

Yes all our defence are easily exposed because we're shite at defending unless we go on the attack, but anyway we're doomed and need a 0-0 draw (good luck with that) and Burnley to self destruct and not get a draw.
Yesterday we tried to play the ball out from way too deep and looked incapable of doing it, and picked the wrong times to do it, we've lost the plot and are now a mixture of befuddled players half Bert/half Yank and no one seems to have a scoobie where to make themselves available, players aren't running like they used to, it should be 4-1-4-1 with KP on his own making himself available to the back 4 and the 4 in front of him making them selves wide on the pitch creating space to be passed to, we are all at sea bungled up together and it's easy for the oppo's to hit on us early coz they're close to us and easy to get to us leaving no time to think , the Yanks got it all wrong, it's been a big mistake bringing him and his ideas in at the stage they did, i don't have confidence in him to change things that are going so terrible.
Bert would've pissed it and i'd have confidence in these remaining games, atm i have none and are dependent on the heavens.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by mentalcase »

Nothing to do with the keeper weasel, for all his mis placed kicks and throws, it's still not his fault, that lies truly at the outfield players.
Lack of sense in defence, lack of nounce in midfield and lack of quality up front, also lack of investment from the owners,and lack of tactics from managers. not down to the goalkeeper at all, far from it.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by faaip »

Meslier has had a passable season, not too worried about his future and we probably keep him now.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Chilli D »

weasel wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 10:31 pm Or should that be No. One is sending us down. At present Burnley have Pope playing well in their goal and likewise Pickford at Everton whereas we have Messlier and all I hear is the great potential stuff but I reckon he has cost us several goals this season and that is without the times where it goes in and you think should he have done a bit better there. Yes he is young and it is an unforgiving position but I feel he is a big weak link for us, I doubt he would get into any other premier league starting XI and probably wouldn't even make the bench at quite a few clubs.
I agree with this.
Yes, what is going on in front of him is poor so he can't be blamed for that but he has looked decidedly weak this season on a number of occasions.
His kicking is poor and always has been but he's let in several goal this season that he should really have saved. Newcastle at home is just one that springs to mind.
If by some miracle we survive this season and Burnley go down, we should try and sign Nick Pope.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by 60sUnited »

Kennyb41 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:33 am Yes all our defence are easily exposed because we're shite at defending unless we go on the attack, but anyway we're doomed and need a 0-0 draw (good luck with that) and Burnley to self destruct and not get a draw.
Yesterday we tried to play the ball out from way too deep and looked incapable of doing it, and picked the wrong times to do it, we've lost the plot and are now a mixture of befuddled players half Bert/half Yank and no one seems to have a scoobie where to make themselves available, players aren't running like they used to, it should be 4-1-4-1 with KP on his own making himself available to the back 4 and the 4 in front of him making them selves wide on the pitch creating space to be passed to, we are all at sea bungled up together and it's easy for the oppo's to hit on us early coz they're close to us and easy to get to us leaving no time to think , the Yanks got it all wrong, it's been a big mistake bringing him and his ideas in at the stage they did, i don't have confidence in him to change things that are going so terrible.
Bert would've pissed it and i'd have confidence in these remaining games, atm i have none and are dependent on the heavens.

After losing 3-0, 4-2, 6-0, 4-0....what exactly was Bielsa going to change ! He did an unbelievable job for us but like most managers following a period of success he had run his course and something had to change....who knows if Jesse is the right man but I understand why our incompetent owner had to gamble given how things were going.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Ellandback1 »

Keepers generally mature when they're older. We also need to remember that he has made the most saves in the top flight.
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Musicman1965
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Musicman1965 »

Meslier made a mistake and I am sure he is just as disappointed as we all are. A goalkeeper is only as good as what is in front of him and
its a bit of a mess at present. For me Ayling has done the most damage by getting sent off and now will be unavailable for the next games. His reckless tackle has cost us and who do we have as cover?
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Madron »

Ellandback1 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:16 pm Keepers generally mature when they're older. We also need to remember that he has made the most saves in the top flight.
All that stat shows is we have defended badly.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Cjay »

Meslier tbf has been badly badly exposed and let down by others this season.

He faced the most shots in the league, he has had to make the most saves.

That doesn't mean he is necessarily the best shot stopper,.just means law of averages more shots faced more opportunities to make saves.

Still only very young with most keepers not maturing until they are pushing 30.

He isn't in a top 10 list of Premier League best goalkeepers, may struggle to make top 15.

But ultimately he has been left horrifically exposed most of the season and first and foremost those who allowed that are to blame.

That being said I would happily sell for the right price.
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Kennyb41
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Kennyb41 »

I never really had much confidence in Les Mes, a good shot stopper at times, value shot up under Bert, will now plummet along with the others i.e KP, remember guys, you heard it here first, but i'll be back to remind you of course.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by VinnysTattoo »

Feels like blaming individuals is only taking heat off the management.

He must be a nervous wreck playing behind this team week in week out.

Fair to criticise? Yes of course.

Fair to blame him for our current situation? Not fair IMO.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Johnboy1965 »

weasel wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:13 am That's sort of the point though - everyone excuses him because he is young, or certainly young for a keeper. Whilst there are a lot of poor performances going on around him I do feel that if for example we had, Pope, Schmeichel, Pickford, Martinez, Leno, Henderson, Arrizabalaga (note the last 3 are not even first choice for their clubs) etc instead we would almost certainly have a few more points and that would likely have meant we were safe. It's sort of the same as saying if Bamford was fit all season we'd have almost certainly scored another 10 goals or so and again that would likely have been enough to see us safe - the difference being Bamford hasn't played whereas Messlier has.

At some point with any keeper you have to evaluate whether he is justifying his place in the team. Yes at our club he is because he is better than our other options but that is more down to our other options not being great than Messlier being great.
All the keepers you mentioned are undoubtedly all very good.
I particularly like Martinez at Villa.
You could use the same argument to say if we'd bought any of Watkins,Bowen, Toney instead of Rodrigo and James we'd have scored a lot more goals and have more points and be safe.
Thing that worries me about Mes is how his confidence will be affected now and we don't really have a viable option as a number 2.
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by Leeds1000 »

He's the youngest goalie i think in the PL isn't he? I bet he wishes himself that he played behind a solid defence. Despite his mistake i am not sure many of the keepers mentioned at the top are better with the ball at their feet. In a few games either this season or last he had more touches per game than most of the opposing team. He was top of the saves chart last time i checked imagine that with all the goals we have conceded... His teammates should hang their heads in shame. :duno:
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Re: No one is sending us down

Post by 1964white »

Leeds1000 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 12:29 pm He's the youngest goalie i think in the PL isn't he? I bet he wishes himself that he played behind a solid defence. Despite his mistake i am not sure many of the keepers mentioned at the top are better with the ball at their feet. In a few games either this season or last he had more touches per game than most of the opposing team. He was top of the saves chart last time i checked imagine that with all the goals we have conceded... His teammates should hang their heads in shame. :duno:
Couldn't have worded it better, 1000.
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