What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Cjay
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

Post by Cjay »

Orange Box wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:24 pm https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/san- ... -53cqn7n5c

apologies if this has already been posted, here is a link to an article from the Times this morning. You'll need a subscription to read the full article, but in essence it's saying the 49ers have allocated funds for a full takeover and are ready to do the deal. No timescale mentioned.

more clickbait or the beginning of the end?
Likely to come from Radz end given the journalist has very close links with him.

Strange timing.

A distraction technique?
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

Post by The Subhuman »

Cjay wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:40 pm Everton have had a phenomenal amount of owner investment over the last 10 years, 6th most in Europe (just over £500mil).

Don't agree that it's better to be struggling to survive and selling your best players.

How pointless to be that club :(
Of course not, would be ridiculous to imagine we'd agree on anything....
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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faaip wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:43 pm Of course not, would be ridiculous to imagine we'd agree on anything....
You'd be happy battling relegation and selling the best players over competing for trophies? :duno:
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Everton, a side who lose over £100m a year, are sustainable? Lol
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Cjay wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:49 pm You'd be happy battling relegation and selling the best players over competing for trophies? :duno:
Looks like he only unblocked you so he could continuously argue with you :lol:
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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SG90 wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:17 pm Looks like he only unblocked you so he could continuously argue with you :lol:
We only agree on Klich for the last 5 years . . It's how we are :)

Not a problem
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Personally think the 49ers need to come out and say what there plans are.

At the moment they are just a minority shareholder who haven't invested in LUFC since arriving.

What is there plan?
What is there goal?
Where is the money coming from?
Do they have money for capital or just share buying?
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Cjay wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:44 pm Personally think the 49ers need to come out and say what there plans are.

At the moment they are just a minority shareholder who haven't invested in LUFC since arriving.

What is there plan?
What is there goal?
Where is the money coming from?
Do they have money for capital or just share buying?
What would they gain by doing that?
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

Post by SG90 »

Cjay wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:42 pm We only agree on Klich for the last 5 years . . It's how we are :)

Not a problem
No WC for Klich. There goes Orta's dream of flogging him for big money in January.
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Carrick Dave wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:58 pm What would they gain by doing that?
Settle some nerves, earn some good will.

Prove they aren't like the other American owners who never communicated with there fanbases.

Kroenke, Glazers even Henry were accused of that.

There is a divide between our board and fans atm and the 49ers are part of that.

Can't speak for here but looking on other forums and social media it isn't exactly a takeover welcomed.
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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SG90 wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:09 pm No WC for Klich. There goes Orta's dream of flogging him for big money in January.
Klich bless him has been on his last legs for 2 years.

He has looked exhausted.
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

Cjay wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:16 pm Klich bless him has been on his last legs for 2 years.

He has looked exhausted.
Kind of said the same on a different thread. He was brilliant for Bielsa for 3 years. But I think that burned him out. At 32, he seems knackered.
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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andrewjohnsmith wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:47 pm Kind of said the same on a different thread. He was brilliant for Bielsa for 3 years. But I think that burned him out. At 32, he seems knackered.
Don't think he's knackered, he's still an athlete but as he ages he's getting slower and he wasn't the fastest player in the first place... What he brings to the table is guile and leadership imo....
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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This was being discussed elsewhere yesterday but interesting point.

So at the moment 49ers Enterprises have paid £99million for 44% of Leeds United.

According to The Athletic Leeds United value is around £475mil including the stadium (so £20mil for the stadium that is what Radz paid) and £455mil for the club itself.

That would value LUFC at £4,550,000 a percent.

49ers got 44% for £99mil, that means they paid £2.25mil a share.

There 44% is now worth just over £200mil, that means selling that they would make £101mil profit for doing naff all.

To buy Radz out at the £4,550,000 per percent mark it would cost £254mil.

That would take there investment to £353million and then £20mil for the stadium.

If they sold us for the £475mil price almost immediately then they make £102mil profit for them and there investors and they have barely had to do anything.

That gives the instant flip merit in terms of a strategy which gives them a decent profit which is ultimately all investment funds care about.

The alternative is much more uncertain.

Run the club day to day, invest significantly to improve the stadium, cost of that is well over £100mil according to Radz so say £150mil.

That is a debt the club can't afford, we don't have the revenue at the moment and the fund would be expected to cover it initially.

And to see any stadium improvements will take 2,3,4 years from now.

So now your at 2026,2027,2028 (10 years since they first invested).

During those years the squad itself requires significant investment if the 49ers don't want to be worrying about relegation every season.

So your probably talking another £150-200mil more.

So now you are needing your investors to cough up best part of £300mil over 2,3,4 years.

There investment in LUFC would now be around £650mil so to generate a profit even similar to what they could have had instantly flipping us you need to find a buyer willing to pay £750mil.

And in those years we could easily be relegated (even with £150mil additional funding to aid squad improvements), alternatively we could simply be no better off.

No further up the table, still 20th-14th, no more successful on the pitch, no more attractive than we were before.

And then even with stadium improvements you would struggle to find a buyer willing to pay £750mil for a struggling lower end team.

So the point of this long post is simple.

Venture Capital funds don't tend to want to run day to day.

They are all about the flip and profit.

Does it make more sense for them to do an instant flip rather than taking the risk of running the club and ending up with 0 profit years later and £100s of millions more investor money wasted?
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Bring back Bert i say.
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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They earn their money for taking the risk. If they completed the takeover tomorrow then tried to sell straightaway but no buyers came in and we got relegated then their £353m investment (in buying us outright) would be worth considerably less. Plenty of people have bought football clubs and lost fortunes.
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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They will borrow money to build.
Only wrinkle will be interest rates.
49ers have power behind them and also the experience in big sport. Experience in stadium rebuild too.
Comparably Radz had neither but has done bloody well to be able to turn us over fur a profit.

Imagine that LUFC actually worth something.
'
"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Cjay wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:15 pm This was being discussed elsewhere yesterday but interesting point.

So at the moment 49ers Enterprises have paid £99million for 44% of Leeds United.

According to The Athletic Leeds United value is around £475mil including the stadium (so £20mil for the stadium that is what Radz paid) and £455mil for the club itself.

That would value LUFC at £4,550,000 a percent.

49ers got 44% for £99mil, that means they paid £2.25mil a share.

There 44% is now worth just over £200mil, that means selling that they would make £101mil profit for doing naff all.

To buy Radz out at the £4,550,000 per percent mark it would cost £254mil.

That would take there investment to £353million and then £20mil for the stadium.

If they sold us for the £475mil price almost immediately then they make £102mil profit for them and there investors and they have barely had to do anything.

That gives the instant flip merit in terms of a strategy which gives them a decent profit which is ultimately all investment funds care about.

The alternative is much more uncertain.

Run the club day to day, invest significantly to improve the stadium, cost of that is well over £100mil according to Radz so say £150mil.

That is a debt the club can't afford, we don't have the revenue at the moment and the fund would be expected to cover it initially.

And to see any stadium improvements will take 2,3,4 years from now.

So now your at 2026,2027,2028 (10 years since they first invested).

During those years the squad itself requires significant investment if the 49ers don't want to be worrying about relegation every season.

So your probably talking another £150-200mil more.

So now you are needing your investors to cough up best part of £300mil over 2,3,4 years.

There investment in LUFC would now be around £650mil so to generate a profit even similar to what they could have had instantly flipping us you need to find a buyer willing to pay £750mil.

And in those years we could easily be relegated (even with £150mil additional funding to aid squad improvements), alternatively we could simply be no better off.

No further up the table, still 20th-14th, no more successful on the pitch, no more attractive than we were before.

And then even with stadium improvements you would struggle to find a buyer willing to pay £750mil for a struggling lower end team.

So the point of this long post is simple.

Venture Capital funds don't tend to want to run day to day.

They are all about the flip and profit.

Does it make more sense for them to do an instant flip rather than taking the risk of running the club and ending up with 0 profit years later and £100s of millions more investor money wasted?
Why don’t they just sell their 44% share for £200m and walk away? Same profit, no hassle.
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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weasel wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:17 pm They earn their money for taking the risk. If they completed the takeover tomorrow then tried to sell straightaway but no buyers came in and we got relegated then their £353m investment (in buying us outright) would be worth considerably less. Plenty of people have bought football clubs and lost fortunes.
They took the risk initially by taking advantage of a desperate seller and getting him to part with nearly half of his asset for below market value.

They've been here nearly 5 years now.

Why take more risk ? I firmly believe buyers would come for LUFC at the £450-500mil mark.

For £700mil+ not a chance.
Last edited by Cjay on Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the point of 49ers Enterprises?

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Irish Ian wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:55 pm They will borrow money to build.
Only wrinkle will be interest rates.
49ers have power behind them and also the experience in big sport. Experience in stadium rebuild too.
Comparably Radz had neither but has done bloody well to be able to turn us over fur a profit.

Imagine that LUFC actually worth something.
That first sentence is the nightmare scenario imo.

But again experience in the NFL is one thing, Premier League is a different beast with a very uneven playing field.

It's even different from when John Henry took over Liverpool.

A lot more wealth and a lot more willing to invest.

Maybe the time of the American dream has past? Hence the two biggest names getting out (Glazers and FSG)
Last edited by Cjay on Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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